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rseiler

join:2001-11-01

[HSI] My new post-upgrade IP puts me in Wichita. Not even close.

A few weeks after our town's all-digital conversion they finally put through the CMTS infrastructure upgrade last night. That brought 8 bonded dl channels (fingers crossed for stabilized speeds) and quite different IP addresses. That's to be expected. What I didn't expect is that sites (e.g. Speedtest.net) now appear to think that I'm near Wichita, Kansas!

Sure enough, using sites like infosniper.net to check my IP along with the similar gateway IP do put me in that area. I live on the West Coast, however.

A tracert to my gateway shows no problem--1 ms--but I'm just curious what the logic is in this. I spent years on Comcast and about a year on Charter, and until today I've never experienced this phenomenon.



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

A tracert to your router of 1ms has no application to this problem since that's from your computer to your router, period.

I'm having a tough time thinking how any of the rest of your post could happen.


FourWheelKid

join:2006-03-03
Broussard, LA
reply to rseiler

Geolocation is unreliable at best, it'll show you're in the right place sooner or later.


rseiler

join:2001-11-01
reply to rseiler

OK, I didn't think of it in that way, since the gw is 71.8.160.1 (my IP is on that subnet). I guess 1ms is ridiculously low though for it to be anything but local.

Anyway, I guess the answer is geolocation is not to be trusted. I don't recall it being so consistently wrong though. Do any checks of the above IP on your favorite sites put it anywhere near the West Coast?


Mitch9

join:2014-05-24
Birmingham, AL
reply to rseiler

Same thing happened to me, rebooted modem and got 60 Mbps, but ip shows that im in Wichita, Kansas!


DLow

join:2013-11-16
USA
reply to rseiler

Its just the DNS give it a few days



mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to rseiler

The gateway is the next physical device you're connected to. The gateway can't be states away.

Just because the DNS name of your IP is one thing vs. another doesn't mean anything at all. It doesn't affect your routing or your pings or your bandwidth.



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

DNS has nothing to do with this either. He has no domain name for what I presume is his home.


JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to rseiler

FWIW, it seems there may be more than one geolocation database (I haven't looked into it at all). I live in Lanett, Alabama, basically right on the Georgia/Alabama line along I85. Most geolocation databases put me in Columbus, GA (about 40-45 miles away), though Auburn/Opelika is closer (about 30 miles away) I figure I'm served out of Columbus not Auburn/Opleika so I get tagged as Columbus.

For most things, this is fine and it gets me "close enough" (which is all this is really for anyway). For some though, it puts me WAY wrong. Frequently when I go to Home Depot's site, it tags me as being in Athens, GA. I don't know if it's just that HD uses some old, outdated database, or maybe uses their own but they are the only one that regularly seem to do that.



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to rseiler

said by rseiler:

What I didn't expect is that sites (e.g. Speedtest.net) now appear to think that I'm near Wichita, Kansas!

I have been "located" in several S.F. Bay Area cities; from San Ramon to Santa Rosa. When I got my Hurricane Electric 6in4 tunnel running, one geo-location site put me in Kansas, and Google started pitching Taiwanese ads, as well as centering searches there.

San Ramon: One time location of the corporate offices of The Pacific Telesis Group, parent corporation of Pacific Bell Telephone; original owners of my IP addresses.

Santa Rosa: Location of the corporate headquarters of Sonic.net, my new ISP.

Kansas: Geographic center of the lower forty-eight states (more, or less). I took it that geolocators are guessing Kansas when they don't really know.

Google: Probably a flawed assumption based on a previous "tenant" on the HE IPv6 block; or just guessing that IPv6 is normally deployed in Asia. I had to fill out a Google form to fix that.

As you create a surfing history on that IP address, geolocators will, eventually, figure it out. The ones which once put me in Santa Rosa are now, more, or less correct; usually only getting the precise Lat./Long. wrong.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

DNS has nothing to do with this either. He has no domain name for what I presume is his home.

DNS has everything to do with it. An IP address doesn't inherently have a location, and the dhcp-blahcity-st-128-342.charter.com is a DNS name.

It's Charter's DNS name, and Charter's DNS server, but reverse DNS is DNS.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

1 recommendation

An IP address has one and only one location and there is no domain name assigned to it. Domain names are attached to IP addresses, not the other way around. It could change daily but won't relocate him to a different part of the country.

Charter's DHCP server does NOT change. If Charter's DHCP server is changing its name, that's a whole 'nother can of worms that's a serious problem that I can tell you never happens. If Charter's DHCP server changed, then how would each user's modem find it?


layer4llc

join:2013-11-25
Greer, SC

1 edit
reply to rseiler

This happened to me after I upgraded to 5 pack of statics. After they re-allocated IPs to a certain region, it takes a while for the RDNS department to get those reverse entries (and GeoIP data) updated to the region in which the IPs were moved to.



mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

An IP address has one and only one location and there is no domain name assigned to it. Domain names are attached to IP addresses, not the other way around. It could change daily but won't relocate him to a different part of the country.

Charter's DHCP server does NOT change. If Charter's DHCP server is changing its name, that's a whole 'nother can of worms that's a serious problem that I can tell you never happens. If Charter's DHCP server changed, then how would each user's modem find it?

I suggest you read up on reverse DNS and geolocation and come back later, it's clear you don't have a firm grasp on how it actually works.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

What is the difference between "173-228-7-216.dsl.static.sonic.net", "173.228.7.217", and "reki.aosake.net"? And what does any of it have to do with geolocation?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum



mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter

the first and last are DNS names. The middle one is an IP address.

without any more context that's the only difference, and the only bit that has to do with geolocation would be that some databases might use the location of the IP's owner in the ARIN database to determine the "location" of the IP.



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

4 edits
reply to mixdup

I suggest you read up on what the Domain Name System is and find out what it actually does and how it works. In the meantime, ask the OP what the DNS name is for his location. I won't wait cause you won't get an answer.

quote:
173-228-7-216.dsl.static.sonic.net
That's a HOST name, not a DNS name.


mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter

said by howardfine:

I suggest you read up on what the Domain Name System is and find out what it actually does and how it works. In the meantime, ask the OP what the DNS name is for his location. I won't wait cause you won't get an answer.

quote:
173-228-7-216.dsl.static.sonic.net
That's a HOST name, not a DNS name.

It could be anything. A host name is a DNS name, first off. And yes, it looks like the reverse DNS entry of a DSL connection, but without the context of whether or not that is in fact the case, the only thing it is without a shadow of a doubt is a fully-qualified domain name.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

said by mixdup:

It could be anything. A host name is a DNS name, first off.

A hostname is NOT a DNS name (necessarily). My web development company runs multiple clients with multiple DNS names off the same server with one hostname that is totally different from any of those DNS names. Take your purported DNS name and do a whois on it and you will find it is not registered anywhere.


mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL

There are many types of DNS entries. I'm not going to argue with you over it. I'm content to let you remain ignorant on the matter.



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

said by mixdup:

There are many types of DNS entries.

Speaking of being ignorant of how things work, I'll leave you with that.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to mixdup

I am pretty sure "reverseDNS" is a process. It is the inverse of a DNS lookup.

ForwardDNS: Finds the IP address from a host name.
ReverseDNS: Finds A host name from an IP address.

There can be multiple host names assigned to a single IP address.
One:

C:\util\dig>nslookup 173-228-7-217.dsl.static.sonic.net
Server:  1000-0000-0000-0000-09d7-04ed-a420-2062.6rd.ip6.sonic.net
Address:  2602:24a:de40:7d90::1
 
Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    173-228-7-217.dsl.static.sonic.net
Address:  173.228.7.217
 

Two:
C:\util\dig>nslookup aosake.net
Server:  1000-0000-0000-0000-09d7-04ed-a420-2062.6rd.ip6.sonic.net
Address:  2602:24a:de40:7d90::1
 
Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    aosake.net
Address:  173.228.7.217
 

Three:
C:\util\dig>nslookup reki.aosake.net
Server:  1000-0000-0000-0000-09d7-04ed-a420-2062.6rd.ip6.sonic.net
Address:  2602:24a:de40:7d90::1
 
Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    reki.aosake.net
Address:  173.228.7.217
 

I need to study the implications of the inverse, though. My ISP allows me to designate a host name for the reverse lookup:
C:\util\dig>nslookup 173.228.7.217
Server:  1000-0000-0000-0000-09d7-04ed-a420-2062.6rd.ip6.sonic.net
Address:  2602:24a:de40:7d90::1
 
Name:    reki.aosake.net
Address:  173.228.7.217
 

At any rate, there is no inherent property of an IP address from which to derive a geographic location. Nor is there an inherent property of a host name from which to derive a geographic location. One can take a WAG from either the ARIN database, or any clues a provider might incorporate into a host name. But neither, alone, or in combination, is sufficient

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

There is no DNS name. That was my argument.



dataice
Premium
join:2002-10-27
Crisfield, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter

4 edits
reply to rseiler

It happened to me too. I'm on the east coast in Maryland, and it says I'm in Wichita 1400 miles west of me. It will be a month come tomorrow, and it still hasn't resolved itself. It's not only Speedtest that I'm seeing this with. It's any site that uses Geolocation to show you relevant information for your area.

When I do a local search for my something in my area in Google, it shows me results for Wichita. It evened triggered a call from my bank last month, because a red flag was set off when it showed that I was accessing my online banking from an area I had never logged in from before. I thought that was a bit extreme, but it was nice to know that they take the security of my account seriously.



mixdup

join:2003-06-28
Calera, AL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to rseiler

Things like speed tests should use routing information to find the "closest" server, because while speedtest.net has servers in Birmingham, AL, the closest server is actually in Atlanta, because the local Birmingham servers are on a different network, requiring handoff in Atlanta.

When it comes to ads and things like that, who cares if it's right or not. Anything that requires your correct location will give you the option to specify (like news and weather sites)



MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to rseiler

The biggest difference is that any number of DNS names can point to one IP but an IP can reverse only to one name.

IP geolocation is a third-party service. Reverse DNS is only one of the factors used to determine the location an IP is being used. None of the location data is handled by the ISP.
--
John M - Cranky network guy


DLow

join:2013-11-16
USA

1 recommendation

reply to rseiler

geeze you guys are arguing like cats and dogs



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to rseiler

Geolocation data is highly inaccurate because there are so many sources for geolocation. You can update the address with ARIN but there is nothing that will push that data out to the various databases.

Most providers go with a one size fits all approach to geolocation since IPs can span a very large area. They are probably not going to go to the trouble of updating it with the CMTS's address.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to DLow

Geolocation has nothing to do with DNS.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to mixdup

said by mixdup:

The gateway is the next physical device you're connected to. The gateway can't be states away.

Not true. You can have many physical devices between you and your "gateway" address.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.