dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
983
share rss forum feed


PToN
Premium
join:2001-10-04
Houston, TX

Storage Arrays

Hello,

We've had an EVA4400 since 2008. We have dual controllers and 2 fiber switches. So far so good. Pretty redundant and reliable other than having to replace a hand full of disks throughout its life, we have had no issues whatsoever.

However, it's a 6 year old system. My question is do you refresh these things? I mean they are built to last and so far it works for us, but i dont wanna get to a point on which i ll be stuck with it. And given that it is all fibre channel, we have to rely on the C3000 chassis to be able to do anything with it. (since the FC switches are there).

Not broken, dont fix it...?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.



exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3

2 recommendations

How big/critical is your business? I know that some corporations, such as Dell, will EoL systems but will still keep spare parts for critical business applications (usually government folks).

If you have a service contract, you might want to touch base with your vendor and see if it will still be supported past EoL. If the vendor won't support it past EoL, you might want to stockpile your own stash of critical components "just in case" and maybe plan for a storage expansion with a potential cutover date and retire the legacy storage.
--
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Xenocrates
My wife's Etsy shop: »www.laurenCball.com ; After-hours tech: »www.JLTCtech.com



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

What he said.

just think if something died on it how bad will it be, will it be your cost or warranty cost to replace it.

You said its very redundant so I guess if something fails you won't be down but what's the cost to your company to restore said lost redundancy?
--
semper idem
1KTzRMxN1a2ATrtAAvbmEnMBoY3E2kHtyv



Drex
Beer...The other white meat.
Premium
join:2000-02-24
Not There
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

2 recommendations

reply to PToN

Have to echo what exocet_cm See Profile is saying. We are on a DMX4 that's over 8 years old. The cost of maintenance is more than if they were to go purchase a new SAN. In fact they would actually save money if they bought a new SAN.
Today's SANs include all the bells and whistles (dedupe, compression, pools, etc.) that allow you to get more for less.

At some point the vendor will stop supporting it or the cost of supporting it will be more than you're willing to pay.

I would begin to look at a tech refresh and just compare what you're currently paying in maintenance costs vs a shiny new SAN.

www.skyera.com
Very cool flash arrays.
--
I'm actually not funny, I'm just really mean and people think I'm joking.



exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to PToN

Drex See Profile mentioned flash arrays. We went to a meet and greet with PureStorage. They have some cool flash array products.


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to PToN

3rd exocet_cm See Profile and DarkLogix See Profile ; if it still works, it still works.

But from a replacement part / warranty / vendor support perspective, if the thing's EOL / EOS, SERIOUSLY start looking at
lifecycling with a replacement part / product.

My 00000010bits

Regards


The Dv8or
Just call me Dong Suck Oh, M.D.
Premium
join:2001-08-09
Denver, CO

1 recommendation

reply to PToN

See if the vendor offers a buyback if you buy a new one.



Veloslave
Geek For God
Premium
join:2003-07-11
Martinez, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·PHONE POWER
reply to PToN

I have a bunch of EMC Celerra's still chugging along... they are getting near EOL so I will be out shopping next year or the next. Buy backs are big these days... but I am not too sure of their value... in every instant.

Always nice to get some $$ for the old stuff but I still have a much older EMC AX box that is far out of EOL and I just keep throwing HD's at it when it wants one... other than that, it seems to be doing a great job. The drives are not cheap but the fact that this EOL SAN is still doing the job is saving some serious coin has it good side. Just like everything else in life... "Google is your friend" You search for it, find it at many places, buy them HDD's & parts where ever and just keep that ol SAN rolling...I figure less critical data on the this SAN obviously and some bkup.
--

Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

It should be called Windows H8



netboy34
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Kennesaw, GA
kudos:1
reply to PToN

Our IBM N-Series went EoL this year... we found out when we went to renew our maintenance agreement... we bought a new Hitachi HUS150 that has triple the storage and is the same price as if we did extended warranty for two more years. We were hoping to get at least one more year out of it as our lifecycle replacement policy is 7 years.



Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
reply to PToN

We have Equallogic in our environment and they do have a EOL that you have to pay attention to. One unit is only a 3TB unit that is down in our disaster recovery site. That unit is going EOL next year in April. We are going to be replacing it next year because the cost to extend it with a 3rd party is going to run us about $1600 a year. I bet we could get a better unit with more storage for a cheaper price than we are paying for keeping that unit on life support.

The key here is to forecast it out as part of your plan. I have a 1 year, 3 year, and 5 year plan for IT and we hold to that plan.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


ddrant

join:2010-03-02
Womelsdorf, PA
reply to PToN

I manage a EVA4400 of similar age hooked up to a C7000 chassis. The EVA is certainly rock solid. It just "works" and we've replaced maybe 3 or 4 drives.

We originally ran our VDI environment on it until we hit a performance wall. Now it runs Oracle databases and virtualized servers.

HP is going all 3PAR with their product line, so that is where HP would like you to go.

We went third party support after the inital 3yr HP support that came with the unit. Much more economical and we still get next day drive replacement when needed, and 4 hr swaps for critical components (which we've never needed).

We actually just purchased 80 450GB 15K drives to replace the original 146GB 15K drives from that third party support provider for more capacity. Cost us a little over $10,000 with trade in of our old drives. We're still in the process of upgrading though because you can only swap so many drives out at a time and then have to wait for the unit to relevel the array.

We plan on getting 3 years more out of the unit once we finish the drive upgrade. The upgrade was necessitated by the fact that we needed some growing space and we retired a much older and smaller EVA4000 that we migrated everything from that to the 4400.

We're running our VDI on a Tegile hybrid array. We'll probably look at another one or something similar once we're ready to retire the EVA4400. Inline dedup and compression rocks, I'm running 500 virtual desktops and barely using 20% of the capacity of the unit.


ddrant

join:2010-03-02
Womelsdorf, PA
reply to exocet_cm

said by exocet_cm:

Drex See Profile mentioned flash arrays. We went to a meet and greet with PureStorage. They have some cool flash array products.

Be prepared for sticker shock... I looked into them for VDI, they were WAY out of our budget.


exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3

said by ddrant:

said by exocet_cm:

Drex See Profile mentioned flash arrays. We went to a meet and greet with PureStorage. They have some cool flash array products.

Be prepared for sticker shock... I looked into them for VDI, they were WAY out of our budget.

Oh yeah, they aren't cheap.
--
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Xenocrates
My wife's Etsy shop: »www.laurenCball.com ; After-hours tech: »www.JLTCtech.com


Drex
Beer...The other white meat.
Premium
join:2000-02-24
Not There
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Look at www.skyera.com
We were looking to offload our heavy hitting VMs onto a flash array so we only needed about 50-60TBs. I don't know if we ever got a quote, but I think 3Par came out the cheapest.
Unfortunately, Skyera said they couldn't deliver for another 2 months, so that was unacceptable. We need it now.

Oh and they have a 500TB 2U unit coming out in January. Damn thing sips power and doesn't require cooling. Craziness!
--
I'm actually not funny, I'm just really mean and people think I'm joking.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

500TB flash? No thanks. Has a cache ok, but primary storage, no way.
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius



Voretex

@75.146.104.x
reply to PToN

Just tell EMC you're comparing them to Nimble, they'll give you a brand new array for basically free.

Or, just buy a Nimble. Cook shit, crazy performance, not stupid expensive.


ddrant

join:2010-03-02
Womelsdorf, PA

Nimble is iSCSI only. I'd have probably went with them if I didn't have a ton of 8gb Fibre Channel switching available (bought back when the money was flowing much more freely). Nimble seems to be the best bang for the buck hybrid array if you do iSCSI.

Tegile isn't that much more and it's multi protocol (iSCSI, Fiber Channel, NFS or CIFS/SMB) and can run different protocols concurrently.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Voretex

said by Voretex :

Just tell EMC you're comparing them to Nimble, they'll give you a brand new array for basically free.

Can you define "Basically Free"?
--
semper idem
1KTzRMxN1a2ATrtAAvbmEnMBoY3E2kHtyv


Drex
Beer...The other white meat.
Premium
join:2000-02-24
Not There
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to elwoodblues

It was going to be a temporary thing. Only for a handful of VMs that do a ridiculous amount of IO and our existing DMX4 can't handle.
When they get around to buying a new SAN, we're going the tiered route (flash/SAS/SATA)...as most vendors are going anyway.

And yes, our SAN architect has some reservations about what you stated as well. Primary storage? I don't think so.
--
I'm actually not funny, I'm just really mean and people think I'm joking.



dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to PToN

3Par 7200/7400/7450. Killer arrays - better than the EVA in every possible way.

I'm glad your EVA4400 has been stable; the first cut of those things had some... issues. Just keep the firmware up to date and you'll be fine. It's a good array, and was WAY ahead of its time back in ~2000 when it launched. (Yes, I was a launch customer - had some EVA's with a COMPAQ badge on front of it, which really should've just said DIGITAL.

The EVA, unfortunately, got stagnant and didn't evolve nearly as much as it could have over the last 15 years. 3Par is a good, fresh start with a really RIDICULOUS array. My customers today are /loving/ their 3Pars... I've put them in a number of places, with no complaints. Performance is good, ease of use is even better, and the 7200 model starts out inexpensive (well, as inexpensive as disk arrays get, anyway ...)

The 7450 is all-flash and showing me some fantastic performance at a spinning-rust price point, once you factor in thin provisioning, dedupe and compression (all of which are done in the I/O ASIC on the 3Par controllers.) Very slick stuff - similar to Pure but at a better $/GB price point, and, well, it's 3Par, so it's the same OS/management software/etc. as the rest of the product line.

3Par was an *awesome* acquisition for HP. One of the few they've gotten right. (3Com was as well, but that's not bearing fruit nearly as quickly as 3Par.)



cypherstream
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to Veloslave

We have two EMC Celerra's. Support renewal on our older one skyrocketed so instead of renewing support, we upgraded to VNX2 line. They did offer $5000 for it but we said no thanks we'll use it for backup / archive while offloading production onto the new VNX 5200.

It worked, but when we upgraded to the new stroage array, wow what a huge difference in performance. VM's boot insanely fast now. Fast Cache works great. I installed VNX Monitoring and Reporting into a VM and I can tell with the data gathering and graphs that Fast Cache and Storage Tiering are doing their jobs.

We stuck with EMC because that is what we had and what we know. But doing it all over again I would have liked to investigate Tegle, Nimble Storage and Pure Storage. Though our analysis did not warrant the cost of an all flash array, which is why a tiered storage approach (flash/sas/nl-sata) works for our business.

Funny thing is, the guy who promoted, installed and trained me on the EMC Celerra a few years ago, now works for Tegile.