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Davek
Member
2014-Aug-9 4:05 am
The chip that does us in?» money.cnn.com/2014/08/07 ··· dex.html» phys.org/news/2014-08-ti ··· ter.htmlquote:
This can allow a chip installed in a car or smartphone to perform supercomputer calculations in real time without connecting to the cloud or other network.
"The sensor becomes the computer," Modha told AFP in a phone interview.
I never really thought much about AI, but then I never fully appreciated the power of ambition: The desire to succeed. Never appreciated how easily we ourselves will dismiss the dangers of what we do in favor of the success it might bring. What will people do with this new tool? Devices, small ones, millions and millions of them, aware of and reacting to their surroundings, and able to run on the equivalent of a hearing aid battery. Maybe not the 'machines taking over,' but virtually autonimous devices, virtually everywhere, observing and analyzing virtually everything we do seems inevitable. Inevitable by virtue of ambition alone. |
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 ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia |
ashrc4
Premium Member
2014-Aug-9 6:32 am
said by Davek:I never really thought much about AI, but then I never fully appreciated the power of ambition: The desire to succeed. Never appreciated how easily we ourselves will dismiss the dangers of what we do in favor of the success it might bring.
What will people do with this new tool? Inevitable by virtue of ambition alone. Lucky you haven't read this article then » nakedsecurity.sophos.com ··· weapons/ |
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 linicxCaveat Emptor
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
United State
1 recommendation |
to Davek
FWIW I didn't read it but I don't like phones that contain auto tracking devices. The phone that fails to connect to 911 when tracking is turned off is garbage and that is where it belongs. It is biggest reason I went to TracFone. |
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dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
1 recommendation |
dave
Premium Member
2014-Aug-9 8:12 am
said by linicx:FWIW I didn't read it and that's why your response has nothing to do with chips that simulate networks of neurons. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
to linicx
Um tracphone has gps enabled for emergency service as do all phones. You can not turn off gps for emergency services on any cell phone. |
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| Nanaki |
to Davek
Interesting how it will effect security is a big question. |
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to Nanaki
said by Nanaki:Um tracphone has gps enabled for emergency service as do all phones. You can not turn off gps for emergency services on any cell phone. True. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2014-Aug-9 12:49 pm
It always bus me when people think their phone has no gps only because they can not use said gps to find directions. Or well i turned off gps and location services for every thing. True for every thing it CAN be turned off for. While the federal gov has a mandate in place that all cell phones must have gps for 911 etc by 2018 according to one article i found dated oct 2011 85% had it already and that was 3 years ago. » www.digitaltrends.com/mo ··· #!bzVOIASo obviously that number is far higher now. Chances are pretty dang good every phone on the market now has gps. So that wall mart bought tracphone has it for emergency service and it can not be turned off. It can in theory but not in practice be disable by causing physical damage to the device such as cutting away the antenna. |
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If someone wants to not be tracked they need to not only shut off the phone but probably also remove the battery.
As you said, GPS 911 tracking is mandated, unlike other GPS uses. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2014-Aug-9 1:30 pm
Yeh pulling the battery will do it. But many phones like computers do not have a true off state only a soft off. It is why a android device stuck in a boot loop can some times be gotten out of it just by pulling the battery.
Now once the battery has been pulled putting it back in the phone will still remain in a true off state untill powered on by the button. Now some people will say (conspiracy theorists) that cell phones have a gps chip with a secondary battery built on to the mother board that keeps the gps powered always and pulling the battery does no good etc etc etc. This for every ones information is bs i work on phones repairing them in some cases down to the component level. There is nothing on the phones that could serve as a battery a couple capacitors as as close as it gets. Even if they have enough power for the gps to run on it would only last for a split second.
BTW
The reason why phones can be remotely " turned on" is because they are only soft off to begin with not true off or hard off. Basically a android phone that is turned off by the power button is equiv to windows sleep mode. |
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dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
1 recommendation |
dave
Premium Member
2014-Aug-9 2:03 pm
And another thread is side-tracked. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2014-Aug-9 2:11 pm
Well any time we start getting more chips in our phones over a wide swath be that gps or this thing tracking etc is going to get brought up. But yeh new topic on gps would be better.
My real question is this what use will this chip be fore us as consumers? If it going to make our phones function better? Or is it for some grand super computing folding at home type deal a geeky thing that most wont care about or use. They talk about AI but honestly i do not want my phone computer or any thing else thinking for me. Don't get me wrong im a techy and geek Ai is fascinating. But in ever day use in cell phones etc it seems quite pointless. Now in a android (not a android phone) it could be quite useful. But in a phone eh i see no point. |
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dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio |
dave to Davek
Premium Member
2014-Aug-9 2:11 pm
to Davek
Back to the topic: quote:
Each chip has 4,096 cores, 1 million "neurons" and 256 million "synapses." That means each core functions at about the scale of a worm brain, and each chip works at about the same level as a bee brain. Put lots of these chips together, and things get really interesting.
So right now this isn't much of a threat to anything; you'll need 'lots' of these, and associated equipment, to achieve anything. Not to mention that the programming of them is apparently not well understood yet. Still, it's an interesting development: and about time we had a second way of doing computation. I'm interested in how this differs from the long-standing neural network approach (not that I'm an AI guy: my AI education consisted mostly of reading about SHRDLU and the blocks world). Maybe the point is that this provides hardware speeds to what was previously done painfully in software. |
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| dave |
to Nanaki
said by Nanaki:My real question is this what use will this chip be fore us as consumers? Yeah, because the entire intellectual development of computer science is all about our toys. But in actual fact, if you have an iPhone, or a BMW, you already have an AI application - voice recognition. It's fairly half-assed at present (modern woe: "my car doesn't understand me") but it's solidly in the domain of AI. |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2014-Aug-9 2:47 pm
If iphone is any indication of AI i don't think we have to worry about a t100 type problem any time soon ......
On a serious note i get the idea about it not being only about our toys. But so much of the tech field is about oh lets shoot a rocket in to space and waste billions just because we can and no real world benefit to it. If this chip can be used to say cure cancer or work on cures for other diseases etc and help with other problems then i say stick that sucker in my phone and lets go. But if it is about yet another gimmick like fire phones dynamic perspective or iPhone siri then take that thing and stuff it. If it is not beneficial over all in some way it is just junk tech. A hey look what we did bunch of nonsense.
If this ai chip can increase the speed of phones or in some way help the general populace again i am all for it.
I just hate all the gimmicky silliness. |
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dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
2 recommendations |
dave
Premium Member
2014-Aug-9 3:39 pm
You are a philistine.
It is a matter of opinion whether gaining knowledge of the universe is 'wasteful', an opinion that I do not share.
As to the uses: well, I recall when the laser was 'a solution looking for a problem'.
One day, perhaps there will be an AI that can write a coherent sentence in English! |
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said by dave:One day, perhaps there will be an AI that can write a coherent sentence in English! If there is another AI that can comprehend the sentence, that will be even more of a feat. And the ultimate would be an AI that can write comedy. |
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 Red_Menacepoking around since 1978
join:2001-11-03
Fruita, CO
1 recommendation |
to Davek
I, For One, Welcome Our New Cybernetic Overlords |
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to Davek
Do the very old, dinosaur flip phones, still have tracking devices? |
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Nanaki (banned)aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH |
Nanaki (banned)
Member
2014-Aug-9 4:32 pm
many cell phones going back to bush have gps chips. There is a fed mandate that all have them by 2018 as of 2011 85% had gps for emergency services 911 police fire etc regardless of how you call them can see your location. Now 2011 till now add a min of another 10% that means today 95% have the gps in them. |
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 SparkChaser
Premium Member
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA |
to dave
said by dave:One day, perhaps there will be an AI that can write a coherent sentence in English! I hope the AI post on here.  |
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to Nanaki
So, I am still correct that our old dinosaur of a flip phone isn't being tracked.  Some old things really are better! |
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MoebiusTrip to Nanaki
Anon
2014-Aug-9 5:23 pm
to Nanaki
said by Nanaki:"Um tracphone has gps enabled for emergency service..." You sure about that for pre-2012 models? |
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(Software) OPNsense
Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-PRO
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to linicx
said by linicx:FWIW I didn't read it but I don't like phones that contain auto tracking devices. The phone that fails to connect to 911 when tracking is turned off is garbage and that is where it belongs. It is biggest reason I went to TracFone. I have never heard of a phone that would not connect to 911 with GPS disabled. All phones in the US do not allow GPS to be turned off for 911, even if you turn your GPS "off" it will turn on and activate when you call 911 as required by law. |
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to dave
Unrefined and not yet implemented, but certainly realized. No doors closed to its application, its capabilities added to devices of nearly every kind, our commerce, our banking, our communications, our very economy dependent upon it, we will be unable to shut off. That it's being funded by DARPA wouldn't trouble me except: Our laws, our rights, our borders are only as good as our ability to defend them. For that reason we, everyone, is necessarily always in an arms race. It doesn't take maniacal madmen to create super weapons and super armies, or autonomous armies unrestricted by human limitations and vulnerabilities. Wise men and women protecting their borders and their families want to build it first, before someone else does. We have one solace, though. Nothing yet suggests we couldn't control it. Lets just hope the way of life to develop it first is the way of life that works well for everyone. |
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linicxCaveat Emptor
Premium Member
join:2002-12-03
United State |
to Napsterbater
I understand what you are saying. However the phone I bought does not have GPS. If I want it, which I do not, I need to install an after market third party device that may or may not work. |
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ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia |
to SparkChaser
said by SparkChaser:said by dave:One day, perhaps there will be an AI that can write a coherent sentence in English! I hope the AI post on here. Why don't you ask one yourself? » www.cleverbot.com/Asks cleverbot "Can you write a coherent sentence in English." Reply "Yes, that is true." |
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| ashrc4 |
to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:And the ultimate would be an AI that can write comedy. » www.cleverbot.com/j2log- ··· G-detail |
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Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI |
to Napsterbater
said by Napsterbater:All phones in the US do not allow GPS to be turned off for 911, even if you turn your GPS "off" it will turn on and activate when you call 911 as required by law. This is precisely why I do not have a cell phone. |
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2 recommendations |
to jaykaykay
said by jaykaykay:So, I am still correct that our old dinosaur of a flip phone isn't being tracked. No. All cell phones ping towers (many even when "off") which provides crude location information. Although not strictly GPS it is a tracking mechanism. If you don't want to be tracked by cell phone remove it's battery or leave it home. |
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Some old things really are better!
