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KahunaNui
join:2000-05-01
Honolulu, HI

2 edits

KahunaNui

Member

System Immediately Restarts after Shutdown - New Pwr Supply

Just changed power supply to a new Corsair HX-650W and found the system immediately restarts
after shutting down.
The only evidence is an Event Log error:
Event ID: 1074 Source: USER32
The process has initiated the restart of for the following reason: No title for this reason could be found.
Minor Reason:
Shutdown Type: 0xff
THERE ARE NO COMMENTS LISTED FOR THIS ERROR. Comment area is blank.

Nothing changed in this system except the power supply.
OS used is XP Pro x86.
Motherboard is a retail box D865PERL w/ 2GB Kingston RAM & P4 Northwood 3.4GHZ (not overclocked at all).

New power supply replaced an Enermax Noisetaker that lasted almost 10 years.

Some voltages with the new Corsair are not in spec. +5v is 5.7v. and 5v standby is 5.6v.
However, our other system has similar voltages with similar setup and pwr supply.
(+5v = 5.5 & 5v standby = 5.6v).
No problems on that one (using an ASUS P4C800E for the MB - ram & processor same).

I suspect this pwr supply since that is all that was changed. Perhaps it's a compatibility issue somehow.
I plan to re-seat all boards including resetting MB itself.

Any other suggestions would be extremely appreciated.
In the meantime, I've initiated a TS request with Corsair about it.

Other thoughts:
Guess I've been lucky. Never ran into this in almost 25 years of this work.
I know about disabling WOL etc... however, I need that enabled. Besides already tried all that with no luck.
Yet another reason to suspect the pwr supply itself.

Thanks in advance for any help on this!
asdfdfdfdfdf
Premium Member
join:2012-05-09

asdfdfdfdfdf

Premium Member

Im assuming that the system worked properly before the replacement? Did the previous psu fail or did you just choose to replace it? Or was there a problem before that you concluded was the psu and therefore replaced it?

Certainly the first thing is to recheck all the connections. Make sure that you have fully seated things like the main power connector to the motherboard and the 12v aux 4 pin connector and that they are latched. If they aren't pushed in far enough to latch properly then you could get odd behavior. Did you remember to connect the 12v aux power for the cpu(the square 4 pin near the cpu socket)?

Check to make sure that the cpu cooler is still attached properly as well as the memory. Something could have been bumped while doing the exchange.

Could you explain the behavior in more detail. Do you mean that if you initiate a soft shutdown in windows the machine turns off and then immediately turns on again. Or do you mean that it continuously reboots itself and won't post? Or do you mean that the system runs for a while and then suddenly shuts down and then restarts?

Also you didn't remove a jumper from some previous troubleshooting and forget to return it to its normal position did you?
bbear2
Premium Member
join:2003-10-06
dot.earth

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What prompted you to replace the PSU in the first place? Does the system boot normally? What kind of shutdowns have you tried (with switch on case, keyboard, from Windows)? Stuck switch. Do you have hibernate and/or sleep mode enabled? What happens with those?

Are you certain you plugged everything back in to all the accessories?

I've come across a similar issue in the past and the best thing to do is to unplug all unnecessary components and if you can make the problem go away, then plug them back in one by one. If you tell us what all you have plugged in to it, it could help. Also check the software configs. Sometimes auto updates will make changes without you knowing.

KahunaNui
join:2000-05-01
Honolulu, HI

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said by asdfdfdfdfdf:

Im assuming that the system worked properly before the replacement? Did the previous psu fail or did you just choose to replace it?

Thank you both very much for responding. The other day the system was completely dead.
First thing I checked the power supply with a tester. Got nothing.
Since I don't always trust those, I used the Fluke and found PSU dead.

That's when I changed the PSU to the Corsair. Up until then, system worked perfectly.

Opened up the PSU (yeah, I know but that's just me) and found it burned up.
Bless the old Enermax PSU's... the fuse blew and protected us.
Since the system works perfectly every other way, I don't think the MB is effected, but I could be wrong.

The connectors are correct (been doing this awhile..."Ironworking" was always my main focus).
said by asdfdfdfdfdf:

Could you explain the behavior in more detail. Do you mean that if you initiate a soft shutdown in windows the machine turns off and then immediately turns on again.

YES, exactly. It doesn't matter if shut down from command line or GUI. It just immediately shuts down and actually powers back on and reboots.
It doesn't shut down unexpectantly. The problem is powering back on and rebooting.
I use this system remotely and so this is a HUGE problem. Locally I can simply reboot into my boot manager and shut off directly from pwr button. Remotely that isn't an option.
said by asdfdfdfdfdf:

Also you didn't remove a jumper from some previous troubleshooting and forget to return it to its normal position did you?

Negative. Didn't touch it. Just tried turning it on and it was dead.

Concerning bbear2's excellent questions:
No problems booting or using system at all. Lots going on in that system and everything working perfectly other than this problem.

Tried shutting down from command line, GUI (various ways like ctrl-alt-delete etc) and remotely.

Checked switch and it's fine.

No hibernate, no sleep or standby mode. That's all disabled...haven't tried that because I never use.
I pray I'm not forced to go that route. We don't do "Auto Updates" here, EVER.

Again, lots going on in that old system. The reason we know it is actually powering off before immediately restarting:
I use CRU Dataport removable drive system and boot multiple drives\OS's. The system emits a beep when powering on. It beeps immediately after shutting down.
The same problem exists with ALL drives.

Main drive is IDE with that CRU system. 2 Internal storage drives are SATA and individually controlled by 'matrix' power switch. They remain powered off when not needed.
Again, everything is working perfectly other than this problem. Have some other cards in there as well:

1. Hauppauge TV card (WinTV-PVR-350).
2. Creative Audigy 4 Pro
3. Two NICs (one on board and one older Linky we use for main connection. On board handles the WOL because old Linky won't).
4. Has an amazing old NewQ DSP which really doesn't effect the system at all.
5. Many moons ago - I switched it to a newer KVM that required USB keyboard. I noted BIOS event errors referring to keyboard which makes me think I should reset the board.
I'm going to check my other ASUS to see if those errors come up. Never had a problem (I never check those logs if everything works).

Only other things are an older rock solid ATI Radeon 95xx video card, USB hub & older Antec 900 case holds it all together.

Thanks again for your help!
bbear2
Premium Member
join:2003-10-06
dot.earth

bbear2

Premium Member

When I've had this occur in the past it was for one of two reasons.
1. The "power management" configuration in Device Manager for a USB device was set to "allow this device to wake the computer". Some systems are sensitive to this, some are not. I understand you need WOL, but check all your USB devices, starting with mouse, kb, etc. and uncheck that value. Also, be sure not to 'jiggle' the KVM switch during shutdowns - BTW, is it a passive or powered KVM switch? I'd me more suspicious of a passive one.

2. It was a 'slight' in compatibility with an I/O card, disk I believe but cannot recall exactly. Upon removing the card it worked properly, and also selecting a different PCI card slot helped as well.

Try #1 first, it's easier. If that doesn't work, then you have lots of non-essential I/O cards that can ALL be unplugged to test. I know you're not always in front of this system, but that's what you have to do. The old PSU could have blown one of the cards. BTW when booted, does DM report any issues?

You said you "checked the switch and it's fine", exactly how did you check it? Did you pull it and verify connectivity with and ohm meter or such?

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

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Oddly I have a similar issue but it only happens some times
I also have a corsair PSU.

It seems to only happen to me when its been on for a long time and when it happens it then shuts down fine after booting back to the login screen.
bbear2
Premium Member
join:2003-10-06
dot.earth

bbear2

Premium Member

Have you looked at and tried any of the suggestions here?

KahunaNui
join:2000-05-01
Honolulu, HI

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said by bbear2:

When I've had this occur in the past it was for one of two reasons.
1. The "power management" configuration in Device Manager for a USB device was set to "allow this device to wake the computer".

Taken care of that. Unchecking those is one of the first things I do after an install.
said by bbear2:

BTW, is it a passive or powered KVM switch?

Powered ATEN, an excellent KVM switch.
Because of customized mouse drivers, it's PS2 while keyboard is USB.
said by bbear2:

2. It was a 'slight' in compatibility with an I/O card, disk I believe but cannot recall exactly. Upon removing the card it worked properly, and also selecting a different PCI card slot helped as well.

thats interesting. I can't see why if all that was changed was the PSU.
I've never seen that before. I'll remove all the cards except for vid and see. I'll install 'em one by one if it shuts down and STAYS down
said by bbear2:

BTW when booted, does DM report any issues?

Actually haven't look there. Great idea.
said by bbear2:

You said you "checked the switch and it's fine", exactly how did you check it? Did you pull it and verify connectivity with and ohm meter or such?

Now that you wrote that, I don't remember. I'm getting the Fluke out after sending this.
Warranty is for 7 years. I'll post what Corsair does or doesn't do about this.

Thanks for your help!

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

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said by bbear2:

Have you looked at and tried any of the suggestions here?

Well for mine its not an issue as I can just select shut down on the login screen when it boots back.

KahunaNui
join:2000-05-01
Honolulu, HI

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said by bbear2:

The old PSU could have blown one of the cards.

Actually that can't be the case since detailed diags and troubleshooting has ruled that out.
If any boards were blown or messed up, everything else wouldn't work perfectly.
Of course it could be the MB itself, with only this issue being obvious.
But that seems unlikely since the system in every other way is working perfectly.

Still haven't put the Fluke on that switch. Also waiting to hear from Corsair regarding those out of spec voltages.

Thanks again.
KahunaNui

KahunaNui

Member

Well, Corsair sent me an RMA as if to leave all other variables completely out.
It would seem that they don't like the out of spec voltages?!

Any thoughts on why nothing else was offered as a remedy for this?

No matter what, I intend to keep troubleshooting on my own (remove and reseat all cards, including resetting MB & re-testing that switch).

If I find it remedies it, my problem's solved without an RMA.

Do you think I'm crazy for doing all that or should I just go for the RMA?

Thanks again.

rolfp
no-shill zone
Premium Member
join:2011-03-27
Oakland, CA

rolfp

Premium Member

said by KahunaNui:

Any thoughts on why nothing else was offered as a remedy for this?


I did hours of troubleshooting on a new Asus monitor and, finally, presented a fairly persuasive circumstantial argument that the monitor was faulty. After their CS offered an apologetic RMA, I did a little more changing around of elements and concluded it was likely my card or some other hardware deficiency. I'm using the monitor now.

I've thought about the RMA process with various vendors and I think, beyond the point of performing certain prescribed tests, the vendors calculate it would be more expensive to harangue around long distance than to simply RMA the product, cutting losses.
bbear2
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join:2003-10-06
dot.earth

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said by KahunaNui:

...

If I find it remedies it, my problem's solved without an RMA.

Do you think I'm crazy for doing all that or should I just go for the RMA?

Thanks again.

If you can solve the problem without an RMA, then do so. Solving the problem PLUS doing and RMA adds another unknown into your otherwise perfect setup for no reason. It it works and you find something other than the PSU is the culprit, don't change it Unless you can tell that you've really beat on that PSU so hard and it will probably not last much longer for other reasons. Remember, the RMA one is probably not new. There might be a date code on them and if the RMA one is significantly newer, then that might be a reason to do it. So there are reasons to do it and not to do it. You'll have to decide what's important to you.

KahunaNui
join:2000-05-01
Honolulu, HI

KahunaNui

Member

Re: System Immediately Restarts after Shutdown - New Pwr Supply - SOLVED!

Well Well, looks like people here are correct whether or not to RMA.

Removed all cards except video. Disconnected all cables except pwr, video & usb keyboard. Unplugged all pwr to all drives etc.
I then reset the MB (removed battery and jumper position).

Replaced removable drive & connected only that pwr and booted it.
Shutdown without any issues.

Repopulated MB with all cards, drives and returned it to original config and booted.
Shutdown without any issues.

Tried all removable drives in the main drive spot and same thing... So far so good. No problems shutting down with any of them.
I'm knocking on wood (my head) because it appears the problem is solved.

And what a bizarre problem it was!

After so many years of doing this, I've learned not to say "I've seen it all." Because obviously I haven't.
I probably haven't even come close.

Thanks to all you Precious responders!
bbear2
Premium Member
join:2003-10-06
dot.earth

bbear2

Premium Member

Glad to hear it's back to working properly again. Congrats on figuring it out and thanks for posting back.

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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Baytown, TX

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Re: System Immediately Restarts after Shutdown - New Pwr Supply

said by KahunaNui:

Any thoughts on why nothing else was offered as a remedy for this?

Corsair likes happy customers so they'll just do the exchange.

KahunaNui
join:2000-05-01
Honolulu, HI

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Re: System Immediately Restarts after Shutdown - New Pwr Supply - RETURNED!

said by bbear2:

Glad to hear it's back to working properly again. Congrats on figuring it out and thanks for posting back.

The problem has returned. Same exact symptoms. Pursuing the rma.
Since others have responded, I'll document whether or not the replacement worked.
Stay tuned
KahunaNui

4 edits

KahunaNui

Member

Re: System Immediately Restarts after Shutdown - UGH

This has now turned into one of the most difficult of all troubleshooting\repair jobs ever to plague the Microcomputer world: INTERMITTENT.
Today, everything worked perfectly, remote wake-up\shutdown & local shutdown.
Used all drives and they all worked with the system shutting down without a problem.

There may be something that happened with the MB from the Enermax PSU burning up. If so, it's something I've never come across before. When the system is on, everything works perfectly. Also all high end MB diags come back negative for any problem(s).

All fuses of the blown PSU were blown, so I thought they had done their job. But now I wonder.

I hate to rma only to find out that I need a MB change. On the other hand, we needed another backup PSU but not at their retail price. What a mess.

BTW, for those that may wonder, all systems are handled by full APC UPS's which are checked constantly for any problems. I've never had any problems with those in over 20 years.
KahunaNui

KahunaNui

Member

Re: System Immediately Restarts after Shutdown - New Pwr Supply

For anyone that's still hanging around this thread, here's an update.

Ended up RMA'ing for a new PSU. Tested everything to the hilt every which way.
Decided it was NOT PSU related, swapped out the D865PERL for D875PBZ and returned the new PSU back to the manufacturer.

Initially everything worked fantastic until a bit later into the regressive testing.
For some reason (which I may have found)*, whenever we Imaged [in DOS] and then rebooted, the system would not boot back into the OS.
It would just run with nothing on the screen and NO disk activity at all.
Had to perform a hard shutdown and switch off the PSU for it to boot back and all would be normal again.
But the pattern was set:
Every single time I would go to DOS for imaging or whatever, it would not boot afterwards... unless the PSU was shut OFF and 'reset'. And so it went . . .

* Until I changed bios ACPI settings from S1 to S3. After that, there have been no more problems (YET).

Since swapping MBs the system has not restarted once. But why would that ACPI setting cause so much weirdness upon booting out of DOS?!

Another interesting point is that the Intel documentation for both MBs lists the default setting for ACPI differently:
The Product Guide shows S1 as default.
The Technical Specifications list S3 as default.

Checking our other system confirms the default is S3.
The real mystery here is how it ever got to S1 in the first place?
And could that be the problem with the old MB?

Now I've rescued the PERL MB from being tossed out thinking it may be OK.
But that initial restarting issue still has me wondering.

Has anyone else experienced weird boot behavior with that ACPI setting?

Thanks again for everyone's input