TilhasBB Premium Member join:2000-08-05 canada |
TilhasBB
Premium Member
2014-Aug-14 4:20 pm
Help, how to setup Router for Rental Property with TOS PageHello Everyone,
I want to set up internet for a Rental Property that I'm purchasing as it will be part of the lease but I do not want to be responsible if they do any illegal activity on the connection. How would I go about setting up the internet so they have to visit a page with a TOS agreement they must agree before logging on to the internet, just like in Hotels. Have the router save their MAC Address, IP, setting time somewhere remotely.
Thank you, |
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you'll probably need to brush up on pfsense |
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TilhasBB Premium Member join:2000-08-05 canada |
TilhasBB
Premium Member
2014-Aug-14 4:47 pm
It would have to be a loaded on a small router. I'll probably get a basic modem with no wifi and have a wifi router loaded up with all the right software. |
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jobr join:2004-10-21 Halifax, NS |
to TilhasBB
You could use your favourity third-party firmware and something like nocatsplash, see for instance » www.smallnetbuilder.com/ ··· ?start=1 |
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MaynardKrebsWe did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee. Premium Member join:2009-06-17 |
to TilhasBB
said by TilhasBB:Hello Everyone,
I want to set up internet for a Rental Property that I'm purchasing as it will be part of the lease but I do not want to be responsible if they do any illegal activity on the connection. How would I go about setting up the internet so they have to visit a page with a TOS agreement they must agree before logging on to the internet, just like in Hotels. Have the router save their MAC Address, IP, setting time somewhere remotely. Don't do it. Make the renter get their own internet service. 2 years down the road when all your logs are long purged, Voltage trolls will come after you because they can't find your long moved-out tenants. |
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to TilhasBB
Unless you share the connection with another tenant and/or yourself, don't bother. |
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vincom join:2009-03-06 Bolton, ON
1 recommendation |
to TilhasBB
let them signup to an isp and everything would be on them, treat it like other utilities |
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·TELUS Actiontec T3200M Arcadyan WE410443-TS Sipura SPA-2102
1 recommendation |
to TilhasBB
You can do this with Tomato. The option is called "Captive Portal" » somethingk.com/main/?p=346You can also set up logs on Tomato so it keeps track of all the sites visited, IPs, MACs, whatever. You can also segment the network and give each tenant their own wifi SSID and password so that they will not be able to access any of the other tenant's computers, but still share the same internet connection going out. » somethingk.com/main/?p=323 |
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TilhasBB Premium Member join:2000-08-05 canada |
TilhasBB
Premium Member
2014-Aug-14 11:46 pm
I had no choice as it was requested by all the tenants as it is a furnished apartment. Can i block torrents and such? |
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paidVPN to TilhasBB
Anon
2014-Aug-15 12:21 am
to TilhasBB
skip the logging and subscribe to a paid logless VPN service and throw it on the router.
then sit back and relax when your tenants utorrent the crap out of Hurt Locker. |
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TilhasBB Premium Member join:2000-08-05 canada |
TilhasBB
Premium Member
2014-Aug-15 12:34 am
said by paidVPN :skip the logging and subscribe to a paid logless VPN service and throw it on the router.
then sit back and relax when your tenants utorrent the crap out of Hurt Locker. I like that idea! Maybe I can do both? TOS and VPN What VPN service would you recommend and how much is it? |
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Running the VPN on directly on the router is fine but keep in mind you will need some horsepower to max out any connection over 10-15Mbps.
I would personally recommend Private Internet Access. At $3.33 per month (if you pay by the year) you can't beat the price and they allow up to 5 different concurrent connections with servers all over the place. |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON
1 recommendation |
to TilhasBB
said by TilhasBB:I had no choice as it was requested by all the tenants as it is a furnished apartment. Can i block torrents and such? Since when did tenants dictate rental conditions? |
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paidVPN to iamhere
Anon
2014-Aug-15 9:56 am
to iamhere
said by iamhere:Running the VPN on directly on the router is fine but keep in mind you will need some horsepower to max out any connection over 10-15Mbps.
I would personally recommend Private Internet Access. At $3.33 per month (if you pay by the year) you can't beat the price and they allow up to 5 different concurrent connections with servers all over the place. +1 to PIA The Teksavvy/Voltage thing was a big wake-up call for me. So as a result PIA gets my money to keep me safe. |
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to DKS
said by DKS:Since when did tenants dictate rental conditions? Presumably, since he's purchasing the property, there is an existing lease in place negotiated by the previous landlord? |
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to TilhasBB
As others have said, a captive portal is your best bet from a technical perspective. If you have an old / unused PC you could repurpose, softwares like pfsense, monowall, Vyatta, Untangle, Astaro Security Gateway could be used. Alt firmwares like DDWRT, tomato, etc. are an option to investigate as well. If you need a template for an Acceptable Use Policy, SANS has one hereTraffic logging / blocking is possible with the softwares I listed above, but a) you're going to have to save the logs somewhere, and b) you're going to have to (get someone to) review them regularly. From a legal perspective though, I agree with others as this COULD put you in liability for any illegal action(s) taken on this connection -- I am not a lawyer by profession, I'd strongly suggest an official consult to get the definitive answer to that. Here's an older topic specifically on that for your referenceMy 00000010bits Regards |
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to paidVPN
pia is pretty slow for me but tbh all vpn's have been pretty slow in my experience |
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TilhasBB Premium Member join:2000-08-05 canada |
TilhasBB
Premium Member
2014-Aug-15 12:08 pm
Thank you all!! Every tenant is shocked that they are paying so much for a furnished rental property with no Internet or TV. Most agreed for the price only if I include the internet. If it goes to a legal stand point I can go to court and show the judge that I was not physically there as I have the tenant lease agreement for the year. So I should be safe but I don't ever want to get to that point.
Now a few points.
1) What is this Private Internet Access your talking about??
2) I don't mind paying for an expensive powerful router that I can run a third party firmware which will have them go in a TOS page but I do not want to put a computer.
3) Can I have the router connect to a VPN which will protect my information (aka out of Canada and USA)
4) Usage Policy: I'd like to CAP the speed once they reach a certain amount of data per day. |
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·TELUS Actiontec T3200M Arcadyan WE410443-TS Sipura SPA-2102
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You have to ask yourself, given that you're asking these questions: are you ready to become an ISP? Because that's what will end up happening. You'll be responsible for maintenance, technical support, compensation in case of outage, security, overage charges... I cringe even giving out a guest wifi password at home to visitors because I know they'll be asking for help to connect and beyond. DMCA takedown notices are the least of your worries. And you'll be back here asking us all for free help with all your self-inflicted problems.
Tell the tenants to get their own internet at their own expense, and if they aren't happy with the rent they are paying under their current lease (which you have been novated as the new owner) then they can suck it up (because I assume they've been paying this all along) or terminate as per the lease terms. Or if you are feeling really generous you could offer them a monthly discount. |
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to TilhasBB
said by TilhasBB:If it goes to a legal stand point I can go to court and show the judge that I was not physically there as I have the tenant lease agreement for the year. Again, that's a legal thing, and I've admitted I'm no legal expert. Otherwise, 2nd MacGyver 's sentiments entirely. To address your questions though : said by TilhasBB:1) What is this Private Internet Access your talking about?? Heresaid by TilhasBB:2) I don't mind paying for an expensive powerful router that I can run a third party firmware which will have them go in a TOS page but I do not want to put a computer. You can get small form PC, PCEngines and Mikrotik/RouterOS are two such vendors I can think of offhand. said by TilhasBB:3) Can I have the router connect to a VPN which will protect my information (aka out of Canada and USA) Not clear what you're asking here. Generally speaking, a properly set up VPN tunnel will protect traffic between the two endpoints that form the tunnel; anything outside of that connection is not encrypted. said by TilhasBB:4) Usage Policy: I'd like to CAP the speed once they reach a certain amount of data per day. To the best of my knowledge, there is no gear, either in the home space or enterprise space, that can do this, especially "automagically" -- read, YOU will have to review whatever device you install, YOU will have to measure how much they used that day, YOU will have to configure the speed cap yourself, then YOU will have to remove that speed cap. My 00000010bits Regards |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON |
to TilhasBB
said by TilhasBB:Thank you all!! Every tenant is shocked that they are paying so much for a furnished rental property with no Internet or TV. Most agreed for the price only if I include the internet. As a landlord I would be shocked if a tenant demanded internet. I would let a unit sit empty before I put internet in my name for them. Let me ask you this. Will you let your tenants drive your vehicles? Because that's the legal equivalent of what you are doing. |
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TwiztedZeroNine Zero Burp Nine Six Premium Member join:2011-03-31 Toronto, ON |
to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:2 years down the road when all your logs are long purged, Voltage trolls will come after you because they can't find your long moved-out tenants. Blatant scare mongering, those muckdiggers can suck eggs they can't do SFA after all that time, once things are purged its done-for. Its not incumbent on you to keep records infinitely, unless you've then been asked to through proper channels, i.e. The courts. Just have it outlined in your TOS that you only keep info for 2 weeks or somesuch. Meanwhiles speculative invoicing schemes are a positive no go here in Canada. (For now). |
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MaynardKrebsWe did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee. Premium Member join:2009-06-17 1 edit |
to TilhasBB
said by TilhasBB:2) I don't mind paying for an expensive powerful router that I can run a third party firmware which will have them go in a TOS page but I do not want to put a computer. Where are you going to put this if you don't want a tinkering tenant to mess with it? ALL the things you seem to want point directly towards having a computer running pfsense - and again I ask, where will you put it, will you install a UPS & KVM? Again I repeat, let the nickle & dime-ing prospective tenants go by the wayside. Make them get their own ISP internet service. |
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taraf join:2011-05-07 Ottawa, ON |
taraf
Member
2014-Aug-17 12:22 am
I have to agree with what the majority of folks here are saying.... If your tenant is balking at paying the rent without you including Internet service, drop the rent by $20/mo and tell them to go fly a kite. Most cities have a pretty low vacancy rate in this country, and you're better off waiting for a tenant who will accept that they need to pay for their own utilities. It is simply not worth your neck if they start doing things that can get you in trouble.
You can set up a captive portal if you want, but I wouldn't take that risk. Furnished means you provide furniture, not that you provide the utilities (side note: for the love of Bob, don't put your name on the electric bill -- I've seen people get bankrupted by the fines from Hydro when tenants tap hydro before the meter to put in a grow op... minimum $50,000 liability for the person whose name is on the bill, and can be over $200k). If people can't clue in to that difference between utilities and furnishings, then you probably don't want them renting your property anyway. And if these are people who *really* can't afford to pay for their own Internet service, again, you probably don't want to be renting to them -- if they don't have room in their budget for a $30/mo line item, then they probably aren't financially solvent enough to be renting in the first place. |
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TilhasBB Premium Member join:2000-08-05 canada |
TilhasBB
Premium Member
2014-Aug-17 1:08 pm
Hello everyone, Thank you for your input, I really do not want to provide internet to the tenant BUT there is some bad news... It's a condo and I've talk to a few of the neighbors and I've been told nightmare stories of how Videotron took almost 2 months to get internet running and end up drilling holes in their windows and walls to get the cable in and Bell giving up because the wiring in the walls is old and causes interference... Either way the only two tenants who want to rent the apartment refused to negotiate without the internet... I've been waiting for other offers but nothing came... I'm going to lock up the modem/router in a "safe" they will not be able to access it. The install Tomato OpenVPN on the router. » www.strongvpn.com/setup_ ··· pn.shtmlI should be protected at that point no? |
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Datalink Premium Member join:2014-08-11 Ottawa ON |
Datalink
Premium Member
2014-Aug-17 1:51 pm
If we're taking a survey, I absolutely agree with taraf. Furnished and utilities are two different things. If you are going to provide internet (I hope you don't) you might want to consider dialing back the bandwidth to the point where, yep, internet is there, but it would probably only be useful for nothing more than checking email. You should be upfront about it, but unless you agree to it, there is nothing to say you have to provide high speed internet. And, you might want to consider having them to sign an internet usage agreement which states explicitly that they are responsible for all internet usage on the account, including any and all downloading of copyright material and will be held accountable for any legal charges which might arise from such downloads. Personal opinion, if a prospective tenant insisted that I provide internet, my response would be "Thanks for coming out, have a nice day." Easy for me to say as I'm not carrying the mortgage for the apartment, but I would be suspicious to say the least if someone made those demands to me. Like many others here, I don't think its worth the risk. |
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taraf join:2011-05-07 Ottawa, ON |
to TilhasBB
If you put an apartment/condo up for rent and only got two people, you're asking too much money. This is August. University starts in 2 weeks, and vacancy rates are extremely low in most of the major cities in Ontario/Quebec, as there simply aren't enough rental properties being built, and haven't been for decades. You should have been inundated with either students looking for a nice place, or professionals looking to get out of the "nice place" they had when they were students.
And no. You won't be protected from liability. You're not a common carrier. They can still screw you over by doing stupid things on an Internet account that's got your name on it. I can't make the business decision for you, but I can tell you that I would not, under any circumstances, give them Internet for free. If you're *really* desperate and they're refusing to negotiate without Internet, then price Internet for them ($25.99/mo for TekSavvy 7MB DSL in Quebec), and tell them that you will reduce the rent by $26/mo so they can buy their own Internet service. It is just not worth the liability, not to mention the headache that can happen with the rental board if it craps out (hint: you, as a landlord, not providing the apartment/services contracted in the lease? that doesn't usually end well for the landlord) |
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yyzlhr join:2012-09-03 Scarborough, ON |
yyzlhr
Member
2014-Aug-17 4:54 pm
Agreed. Even if you lower the rent by $60-70 per month so that they can get service with an incumbent you should still be making money and you absolve yourself of any liability regarding their internet activities.
You also don't have to tinker with any routers, pay for any VPN services and deal with any complaints from your tenants for non-functional internet. |
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JackoramaI Am Woman Premium Member join:2008-05-23 Kingston, ON |
to TilhasBB
As a renter, I would rather get my own internet, than have it in the rent and controlled by the landlord.
That said, I have noticed that internet supplied by the landlord is becoming the norm in my area for house rentals and that maybe because my area has become a student area.
The apartment building around the corner (the one that had the fire in Dec.) will be offering free wifi to about 450 + students & young professionals renters when it is completed. Mind you rent is about $650 for the kitchen and living room and I think you add on for each bedroom something like $425. The apartments are unfurnished and run 2 bedrooms to 5 bedrooms units. They also will be supplied with a Starbucks. |
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belinik
Anon
2014-Aug-17 6:47 pm
def reduce price and let them deal with internet, it's too much headache. |
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