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SNOOPYXP_SP2

join:2000-05-25
Oakland, CA

Toner - Implications from Recycling as far as ID theft?

Is it safe to recycle toner? OR should it be treated like a HDD thus destroyed with a hammer or explosion?

I'm aware of thermal paper for fax machines being unsafe to dispose of via dumping in trash.

Answer if you are sure of your answer ie know the process understand toner cartridges.

Thanks in advance.

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
The enterprise I work for has strict security requirements for the disposal of electronic data storage devices. We destroy all data on any data storage device with special overwrite procedures, and if directed by regulation physically destroy the actual storage device. There are no special requirements for laser dry toner cartridges to be destroyed, only to ensure they are properly recycled. If we dispose of a laser printer, than any data storage device in the printer must be handled according to the requirements of destruction or overwrite as directed.


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Clearwire Wireless

2 recommendations

reply to SNOOPYXP_SP2
If your talking about the toner itself it poses no security risk aside from human contamination & environmental concerns.
If your units use a toner/drum assembly where the drum gets replaced with the toner the drum can contain retrievable images the same way acid can bring out a trace serial number on metal.

Talk with your distributor about disposal. As a consumable it's part of the transaction.


SNOOPYXP_SP2

join:2000-05-25
Oakland, CA
»www8.hp.com/us/en/products/oas/p···=3386172

thanks guys. Not sue what you mean by drum assembly. Here is the toner which needs to be recycled.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
That is just a box of soot. The soot gets transferred to paper. When most of the soot is on paper, the box is more-or-less empty, but dirty, and needs to be disposed of, preferably to a recycler. No data is present in the erstwhile box of soot.

Toner is like ink, not like paper.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

1 edit
But as Snowy said some toner catridges come with the drum leaving open at least a little possibility of say maybe some of last copy(ies) to be read off the drum. So drums need to be cleaned or smashed if really secret stuff. Like run some blank copies before tossing.

Now if OP is thinking printing in general printers have all types of memory and better larger corporate ones have hard drives keeping copies of many previously printed documents.
So maybe that is some of.the confusion.

But yes toner is just toner. Black or colored dust.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Oh, agreed. My answer was based on the link to the actual cartridge that the OP has.


SNOOPYXP_SP2

join:2000-05-25
Oakland, CA
thanks to both of you. i feel so dumb. dave, just for clarification based on the toner that I showed you, there is no need to worry about the drum? BTW I printed tax returns and financial documents and don't want info floating around.


stormbow
Freedom isn't FREE
Premium
join:2002-07-31
Simi Valley, CA

1 recommendation

reply to SNOOPYXP_SP2
said by SNOOPYXP_SP2:

thanks to both of you. i feel so dumb. dave, just for clarification based on the toner that I showed you, there is no need to worry about the drum? BTW I printed tax returns and financial documents and don't want info floating around.

As long as those weren't the last things you printed, there would be no chance of data breach. If you are paranoid, type a page of nonsense and print it with the old cartridge before disposal.

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to SNOOPYXP_SP2
Don't worry about it. Your info is FAR more likely to be grabbed from a bank, mortgage broker, car dealer, etc. that wants copies of your entire financial history for every transaction.

nonymous
Premium
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ
The drum would probably give only fragments of the last copy if that.
Now old typwriter ribbons depending on if especially the nice one strike ones. But who uses typwriter ribbons anymore,


SNOOPYXP_SP2

join:2000-05-25
Oakland, CA
reply to SNOOPYXP_SP2
OK thanks to both of you. one learns something new every day. Just need not be hesitant to admit need help and ask for it! thanks again!!!!!!!!!


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
reply to nonymous
heh i remember those. It was like looking at one giant run on sentence.BTW while few use typewriters many do still use dot matrix and other impact printers. They are still the best way to do multiple copies at high speed. Many okidata printers have rates pushing 300+ ppm some very high end units can hit 900+ and create up to 6 copies in one print cycle.

Look at it this way a okidata 24 pin dot matrix printer with say 300 pagers per minute pumping out 6 carbon copies of each page is really pushing out 1800 pagers per minute. How many lazer printers or any other type can push out that many pages and be cost effective?

BTW i owned a 300ppm okidata model that did exactly that. And fixxed them dozens of times. They sound like a machine gun gone out of control lol.

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
Many alarm monitor systems use dot matrix printers exclusively. I thought it was strange when they brought them in for the new fire alarm system at our building.


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
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reply to SNOOPYXP_SP2
said by SNOOPYXP_SP2:

»www8.hp.com/us/en/products/oas/p···=3386172

thanks guys. Not sue what you mean by drum assembly. Here is the toner which needs to be recycled.

Some units are manufactured with the toner & drum assembled into a single disposable housing.
Yours is not that type.

OT but the toner @$68.99 with an expected yield of 1500 copies - that's 4.6 cents per copy just for the toner.
I hope this is about the convenience (or privacy) of having a copier close at hand because they are not cheap copies.


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to nonymous
Um, the drum doesn't retain the last image. There is a detack mode, cleaning mode and cleaning charge before next pass. Since it has to have a static charge, there is likely no way to get the last page if powered off.
Toner is toxic (to breath in). Since it really is micro-sized iron with plastic coating, it is attracted to the charged areas, fuser melts it, any non-charged is wiped off, collected in cartridge to be used in next pass. Also, if you get toner on clothing, wash off with COLD water, never hot.
Copiers, and any newer mopiers may have a HDD internally for storing images. Those I would be concerned about if donating, scrapping, selling. Pull the HDD out. Destroy.
--
Splat


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
I do know that toner drums can suffer burn in. I have seen lots of them with company letter head images visible on the drum. Normally some what smeared looking but readable and recognizable.I guess it is more a etching or staining than a burn in when it comes right down to it.But it is with out a doubt permanent.

First time i seen it was from some one who bought a used lazer printer and they had a ghost image of another companies letter head showing up. I looked at the unit and noted the drum had the stain on it. Pretty wild really. I would not hazard a guess how many 10s of 1000s of prints that thing did before it got like that.


antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
reply to SNOOPYXP_SP2
Didn't some printer (ink/toner)s use to print hidden IDs on printouts?

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
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reply to antdude
said by antdude:

Didn't some printer (ink/toner)s use to print hidden IDs on printouts?

Yes, dave See Profile's link explains the mechanics but conveniently omits the overriding purpose of the technology.

Maybe the EFF wanted to explain why the technology is in place but the 'make a donation' link left them with inadequate space to do so.
Just in case that's what happened allow me to explain the rationale of the technology.

It allows the source (machine ID) of a document in hand to be identified.
Is that an invasion of privacy or at least have the potential of abuse?
Sure does.

The abuse by authority though is not as compelling a reason to not having the technology as is the potential for abuse by the end user.

Without it, every bloke on the block with access to a Kinko's can become a prolific currency counterfeiter with just a push of button.
The destabilizing effect this can have on a local economy exceeds the risk to privacy that machine identification presents.

Of course I wouldn't expect the EFF to grasp that concept - after all it does take thought rather than knee jerk reaction.

BTW Machine ID is not limited to Xerox's DocuColor series of printers.
I can't speak to home or personal copiers but all commercial grade color laser printers sold in the US carry the technology.

I support the EFF but it does piss me off when they waste resources on BS like this

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by Snowy:

Without it, every bloke on the block with access to a Kinko's can become a prolific currency counterfeiter with just a push of button.

Since we're now on the subject of weird things that copiers do: I have heard it said, but have not personally verified, that high-quality copiers will refuse to copy banknotes.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

I suppose there may be paths around this which are more complicated than 'put note in copier and press PRINT'.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
reply to antdude
It was messed with for a while basically some ink jet printers added a tiny serial number to each printed page. To assist law enforcement in tracking threats ,counterfeit ing and other activities that printers some times were used for that were illegal. As it was done in the drivers it was hackable. Meaning tech wavy people removed or could remove or fake a serial number. I think they stopped using it a few years back.


pc319
Premium
join:2002-04-24
North Royalton, OH
reply to dave
This happened to one of our customers that purchased a color MFP. The copier gets locked with a code that only the manufacturer can remove as soon as you try to copy currency. The customer got a visit from U.S. Secret Service since they also handle counterfeit money issues.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
DOH!

I had a friendly encounter with the secret service and fbi over counterfeiting many years ago. My dad worked at a local social club and drank there etc. He passed 50s on occasion. Some one was counterfeiting 50s so any one who had used a 50 was questioned etc. So they came to our house. What ended up happening is me the secret service and the fbi agents bsed about current tech and how much of this actually goes on how good and mostly bad the fake money floating around out there really is. Was quite interesting honestly to see and get a bit of a insiders view of how they do their jobs.

In this case the fake bills were done on very high quality ink jet printers and were printed on bleached $1s so the paper was good. But i got to see one of the fake 50s even crumpled etc it just looked to new and to well oddly perfect. If you look at a real bill the printing is not 100% perfectly centered. On the fakes it was. and the pens you use to check the bill show it for fake. They react to ink and paper.
so real ink fake paper it will be caught and real paper fake ink it is also caught. The fbi guy did say it was actually funny to feed one of the fake 50s to a coin machine as it would only give $1 as they read the strip


pc319
Premium
join:2002-04-24
North Royalton, OH
It's amazing how many times I've heard these kinds of things happening being in the business as long as I have.
We had an artist that bought a color copier 20 years ago that tried copying currency except he was using regular paper! He was a lot dumber than and supposedly tried $10s and $20s figuring it wouldn't raise a red flag. The tech back then just wasn't very good. We eventually got the machine back that we sold him a year later after the Secret Service was done with it. I got to see a sample of awful attempt when we found a corner of a copied $20 jammed in it. It was nowhere near the right color.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
Yeh ive been in the tech field for 20 years. Even done some machine repairs for presses and machines that stamp metal. I was working on one machine and picked up a die low and behold it was a quarter. A very detailed very real looking one. I walked off that job and did not finish it. Was no way i was gona have my hands on a machine that some one was likely using to make fake coins. That was a solid 17 18 years ago. I was hired to fix its electronic brain.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
Oh i just thought of a win win to prevent fake coins. All plastic with holographic image or partial. And the gov starts a coin exchange to exchange your old school all metal for the new ones. but you are not requiered to turn them in and they can still be spent but get pulled from circulation as they are spent. Coin collectors would love it as their metal coins would skyrocket in value as rarity went up and they would have pockets full of now valuable collectible coins. And first run new coinage to keep as well hmm

On another note makes you wonder how many fake coins are in circulation as there is no way to check other than hey this looks fake or feels fake etc.

James_C

join:2007-08-03
Florence, KY
reply to nonymous
Besides wearing out a portion of the drum surface through persistent printing of a letterhead, there is no chance of recovering past documents from a toner drum surface. Nothing especially sensitive would be printed thousands of times in a row in same place on that many pieces of paper.

Even if some toner had clung to the drum it has already spun a few times per page and necessary had remaining toner wiped off so it is clean for printing the next page.

James_C

join:2007-08-03
Florence, KY
reply to novaflare
They probably did it because they were bored. Generally speaking it costs as much to make and launder believable fake coins as they are worth, or even more, significantly more for a small scale operation.

It's a multi-stage process that doesn't just stamp the coin, and nickel is very expensive, currently $8.50/lb. It would probably be prohibitively expensive even if you went the route of stamping in copper (cheaper alternative than tin) then electroplating nickle. Aluminum would be the only cost effective metal but then it would feel noticeably lighter than a real coin.

IMO someone would have better luck with the $1 coins because people are less familiar with them, until the bank contacts the depositor who remembers who passed so many unique coins.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
You don't make a couple 100 dolor die because your board. As for nikcle being expensive there is very little nickel in even a nickel a pound would make a crazy number of quarters etc there is a tiny amount of it in them