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Troy

@67.252.83.x

Switch From TWC To A WISP A Good Idea For Me Or Not? Please Read Post.

Hello. I have a question to ask you. I need your honest opinion here. Switching ISPs and some personal thoughts and advice. [WISP = Wireless Internet Service Provider]

I currently have Time Warner Cable's Turbo Speed Internet at 20 Mbps download speed 2 Mbps upload speed. I am happy with TWC's true 20/2 speed and no issues; however I would like to save some money from the fearless, ever rate increasing TWC gluttons every year now. The reason for the change: I would like to save money (Paying $50 per month with their latest TWC promo that I pushed very hard to acquire since I already been their customer. They could not do better than that. For Turbo, yes I did do good. Saving approx. $18 a month. But do I really need it?) and still have reasonable amount of Internet speed for my current demands. In terms of my Internet hardware usage and for what I have and do online, I do not have much in demand for higher speeds. I have a live Internet streaming radio console (10/100 Mbps Ethernet connection; no SD or HD video) and an older Windows 7 Pro desktop (non-Gigabit speed) computer -- the only hardware requiring Internet requirements I have to date. No gaming or video streaming devices or online I do. A video streaming service in the future like Netflix (online or device) is a possibility, but I'm totally undecided at the moment about it. I have a Motorola SB6141 modem and Netgear WNDR3700v1 router. The most intense Internet speed requirement I currently do on my desktop would be me watching YouTube videos online -- that is NOT video streaming. I have an older 3G LG primitive Smartphone that I at rare random times connect Wi-Fi to my router -- not big data resource drainer here.

I am now looking at a local Internet fixed (not mobile) wireless data streaming only (Yes, very city local and from word-of-mouth from local people, very reliable.) ISP. This WISP offer a wireless 10 Mbps Burst Speed Residential service. They state on their website, "Great for surfing the web, email, shopping, social networking, streaming music, video chat, streaming video on Netflix, and multi-player gaming! Up to 10Mbps Downstream and 3Mbps Upstream Burst Speed! Sustained rates of 3Mbps Downstream and 500kb Upstream. [Offer one] Free Email Address. 24/7 Tech Support Local Support Staff and Technicians. No Contracts! 30-day Money-back Guarantee". I found out there is no usage limits per month or caps they impose. They use a fixed wireless system that is a proprietary system designed by Motorola for fixed wireless broadband, and that isn't 4G. They only use their 4G Wimax units in specific cases where the Motorola system won't work as an alternate. Their 4G signal is for data communication ONLY. They do not use their Winmax 4G capability for cellular voice or text messaging. They have a burst speed with speeds typically ranging between 3 Mbps and 10 Mbps. They state anything below 3 Mbps is an issue and if there is an issue and I need to contact them. Their technical support and customer service by word-of-mouth is excellent and very responsive. I personally am told there are towers in the 1-5 mile range around my home, but they will not disclose that information to me; probably due to security reasons. Hardware wise, they would be installing a small unit that is simply a 9" x 9" x 4" white square box that attaches to a small arm that grips the mounting bracket on the high on outside of my home and a modem of theirs I would have inside my home. There is an upfront installation charge of $50 for their rental equipment, but no monthly rental equipment charges. I would utilize the same router I own, just use their modem instead of my cable modem Prices for Residential 10 Mbps has a promo of : $29.99 for 12 months then $34.99 the year after. The offer a Residential 30 Mbps for 12 months for $49.99 and thereafter $54.99. Residential 30 Mbps provides "Up to 30Mbps Downstream and 10Mbps Upstream Burst Speed! Sustained rates of 6Mbps Downstream and 1.5Mbps Upstream". I am interested in the Residential 10 Mbps because I "THINK" it will work for me, but that is my question to you; especially when it is burst rate speed and not dedicated or true speed. Per WISP's technical support, speeds averaging on their end's daily usage patterns in my area from 4.5 Mbps during prime time TV nights and evenings to 8-9 Mbps early morning hours.

The only "potential" issue I originally was worried would be my Internet streaming radio console with this WISP's Residential 10 Mbps burst speed (maximum). The live Internet streaming radio console uses only 200-300 kbps I am told.

I would save about $20 per month with this WISP from TWC switching now -- that is comparing both their promo rates. I would be saving without their promo rates between the two companies approx. $33 per month. How much longer TWC will bend to keep me? I see this year it was much, much harder with their retention department! The TWC and hardcore Comcast merger the reason TWC is not being as kind as they once were with savings -- monopoly control? I would go from a dedicated 20 Mbps/2 Mbps to 10 Mbps Burst Rate (3 Mbps - 10Mbps). Yes, I am not considering apples to apples (sameness) for speed in terms of cost, however TWC does not have for my area any plans in the 3-15 Mbps range (only 3, then 15 Mbps plans) unlike this WISP can. Yet, I think this WISP "MAY" be a right fit for me right now?!?

Now that you have a firm understanding. My questions to you:

1. Will I have a problem like freezing and buffering issues from Residential 10 Mbps Burst speed (range: 3 - 10 Mbps) with an Internet streaming radio console and a desktop computer or not?

2. Will there be a problem like freezing and buffering issues from Residential 10 Mbps Burst speed (range: 3 - 10 Mbps) if I go with the a HD Live Streaming Video (online or device)?

3. Do you think this WISP is right for me based on the information I have provided or not?

4. Your facts and thoughts on what I want to do?

Please reply.

Thank you!

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
1. No, problems under normal circumstances.

2. Yes, problems under normal circumstances.

3. I say give the WISP a try for one year.

4. WISPs will usually not do an installation if you are in a bad signal location. So after the site survey to determine signal capability, have a good talk with the technician about the quality of the signal. Ask how much worse signal can be in winter vs. summer, rain vs. sunshine, and so on. If the technician is confident the signal will be good throughout the year, strongly consider signing up for the year to try the service out.


Hayward
K A R - 1 2 0 C
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Key West, FL
kudos:1
reply to Troy
You should have no problem with audio streams

Video 1 HD stream (but not 1080p) and little else if they do indeed do continuous 3mbs

One thing I didn't see you mention is are there monthly caps? I my have skimmed over that
--


montecarlo1

join:2013-11-24
Binghamton, NY
reply to Troy
@ davidhoffman & Hayward:

Hello. Thank you both very much for your help!

I did not forget my OP. The reason for the long delay is I was waiting for more comments on my post to get a general consensus by numbers of postings, but I am thankful to receive the comments I have so far. I see you both have kindly commented. I appreciate your comments. Thanks for your advice too! You both are in agreement which strengthens by thoughts about changing ISPs.

In a nutshell: So HD video streaming is basically an issue with this 10 Mbps Burst speed WISP; other than that, it will work for me. Again, there is no caps with this WISP, so that will not be an issue unlike TWC possible near future merger with Comcast that does impose caps. If I decide to go with HD streaming on a flat screen 1080p TV, I will be forced to go to this WISP's better 30 Mbps level.

Again thank you both!

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3

1 edit
What is the name of the WISP?

EDIT:
Plexicomm ?

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
reply to montecarlo1
If you are using Plexicomm, you will have some problems as your burst speeds are much higher than your sustained speeds.
30 vs 6 and 10 vs 3. In the case of HD streaming that may cause buffering. Have they given any indication as to how long does this burst speed last? 60 seconds? 600 seconds?

montecarlo1

join:2013-11-24
Binghamton, NY

3 edits
reply to Troy
@ davidhoffman:

Hello again.

YES, you did guess correctly!!! Plexicomm.net is correct! (a) Please explain how you figured it out? I think I know how you figured it out. This forum places my city and state with my username and when you are looking for WISPs, around where I live; there is not too many. They stand out.

You ask, "Have they given any indication as to how long does this burst speed last? 60 seconds? 600 seconds?" I did ask them a similar e-mail question regarding this. I asked them, "One further question regarding the boost speed capability I need to ask you. If under the right conditions I totally 'empty the bucket so only the faucet is running' as you described it to me previously, how fast (time wise) can I get my bucket filled back to the top when all Internet traffic I have just been using totally ceases? How long does it take to fill up to full capacity? Understand what I am saying? This is important for me to know. Please explain.".They said in a reply, "If you completely cease all traffic, the bucket would go from empty to full in less than a minute. Keep in mind, the bucket is constantly filling at 3mbps, so any time you're using less than 3mbps the bucket is filling back up.". They also said, "The bucket is constantly filling from the faucet. Streaming audio such as VoIP or internet radio is going to use 100-200kbps. The faucet is running at 3000kbps. So the answer is that your internet radio usage will never even begin to deplete the bucket and thus will not affect your speed in any perceptible way. Speed will definitely change with load, with the heaviest load being during the same hours as prime time TV. And yes, load will increase as more customers are added, but we attempt to combat that by adding more access points and splitting the load among them. This is actually why we advertise the speeds the way we do. 3mbps is your minimum, if you're ever getting less than that then something is wrong and we need to address it. What will change is the "up to 10mbps". At my house, if I do a speed test around 8pm I might only see 4.5mbps, whereas it might be 8 or 9mbps at 7am. I can see the different number in a speed test, but I don't notice the difference unless I'm looking for it."

B. Now, yes; their "burst speeds are much higher than your (their) sustained speeds." I see that for Residential 10 Mbps. But even when they are at their base speed rate 3 Mbps during busy times (combination of greater home usage on my end and/or the general usage from other users off their tower) , I STILL SHOULD HAVE ample speed for EVERYTHING ELSE "BUT" HD (1080p) video, correct? NOTE: Just remember, right now I have no immediate need for HD 1080p or 720p video at the moment. MAYBE in the future, but not now.

C. Yes, I have to say, even their Residential 30 Burst Mbps IS an issue. I didn't realize or look too deeply into their better speed plan until now. I see their base is only 6 Mbps. So you would say that EVEN the Residential 30 plan WOULD OR COULD BE AN ISSUE TOO for HD (1080p) video, correct?

Please reply. I have some new questions to ask you:

1. Please reply to my three (3) questions. One at the top (a) of this post (How did you figure it out?), and (B), and (C) at the bottom of this post.

2. Your thoughts on my what they said regarding you asking "how long does this burst speed last"?

3. Still a good choice for me or not really now?

Please reply.

Thanks again!

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
1.
a. Yes, I used the city and state specified by your post name to go into a WISP website and look for WISPs near that city.
»www.wispa.org
»www.wispdirectory.com/
I then looked for one that advertised the 30 and 10.

b. No. You will have buffering of SD(480p) video with a 3 Mbps service. For non-video web searching it will be good

c. Yes. You will have buffering of HD(1080p) video with a 6 Mbps service. For non-video web searching it will be very good.

2. The way you asked the question caused them to give an answer that does not have any meaning.

You have to directly ask them: How long does the Burst speed last?

There are two possible answers:

1. The Burst speed lasts for the first XX KB of a download.

2. The Burst speed lasts for XX seconds for each download.

Buckets? What is a Bucket? Is it a 1 GB file? Is it a 1 MB file? Is it a 1 KB file? Without defining a Bucket as to size, you have no meaning.

You asked about Burst speed and they told you about continuous.

Continuous at 3 Mbps would be ((60 seconds X 3 Mbps)/(8 bits/byte) or 22.5 MB file size per minute.
Continuous at 6 Mbps would be 45 MB file size per minute.

What you want to know is:

(( (xx burst seconds) X (burst speed) )/(8 bits/byte)) = Burst file size.

or

The Burst file size is XX KB for the 10 Mbps Burst.
The Burst file size is XX KB for the 30 Mbps Burst.

3. If »www.plexicomm.net/ has no caps, and you are worried about exceeding caps, then I would give them a trial. They have a 30-day money back policy. Of course you really do not have 30 days, more like 10 days with all the mounting of equipment, dismounting of equipment, getting return authorizations, and other stuff. So you can have them install the equipment and try it for 10 calender days. If it works to your liking, then keep it. If not to your liking, start the account cancellation, equipment removal, and return processes.

During the 10 day trial you must try to download HD (1080p) and SD(480p) video files. Find NetFlix, YouTube, or Amazon video files you will use. You must use the same exact files each day. See how well they download. I would use some short YouTube HD files. The reason is you can usually set the resolution of the download as needed. So you can first download the file at SD (480p), and then download the same file at HD (1080p). See how many times the video stops to buffer for each resolution. Just type in hd 1080p video into YouTube search. For example:

Space Shuttle Launch Audio - play LOUD (no music) HD 1080p

is a file only about 4 minutes long with lots of resolution choices.

montecarlo1

join:2013-11-24
Binghamton, NY

4 edits
reply to Troy
@ davidhoffman:

Hello once again.

I replied to the WISP and within one half hour, they got back in touch with me. They have been amazingly fast and reliable in their responses to me.

Anyways, in order to get the responses I wanted that you asked; please pardon me, but I reiterated most of your words from your last posting into an e-mail forwarded to this WISP to get the proper responses I need. I couldn't of said it better than you to receive more accurate responses. I know you are curious about this WISP as I am to your questions you last posted; so I copied and pasted the WISP's replies here from the body of my received e-mail from this WISP. I want to share what was said. Please read on.

-START OF BODY OF E-MAIL-
***

Hello. I have a few very important technical questions I DO NEED your responses for:

1. How long (time wise) does this burst speed last for your Residential 10 Mbps Burst Speed Plan? Example: Like 60 seconds or 600 seconds, or something else? Please specify with a accurate and precise figure as possible and explain.

(Their response:) I can't give you a precise time, because there isn't one. There is a burst bucket of 128,000,000 bits, or approximately 15MB. The bucket is constantly refilling at 3 million bits per second, and simultaneously being emptied at whatever speed you are downloading at. Any usage at or under 3mbps will *never* deplete the burst bucket. Usage of 3.1mbps would deplete the bucket in about 20 minutes. Usage totaling 9mbps would deplete the bucket in closer to 20 seconds. As soon as usage drops below 3mbps the burst bucket will being refilling. If usage were to stop completely, it would refill in less than a minute.

2. Likewise, how long (time wise) does this burst speed last for your Residential 30 Mbps Burst Speed Plan?

(Their response:) The bucket size is either 500,000,000 bits or 2.5 billion bits depending on the specific model of hardware. Using the smaller of the two numbers, that's about 60MB. Also, the larger bucket fills at the higher sustained speed limit of 6mbps. Other than that, the same math applies.

3. From what I understand about burst speeds duration, there are two possible answers:

A. The Burst speed lasts for the first XX KB of a download. What is XX figure in this case for (a) Residential 10 and (b) Residential 30 plans?
B. The Burst speed lasts for XX seconds for each download. What is XX figure in this case for (a) Residential 10 and (b) Residential 30 plans?

4. I understand what you told me about continuous speed (the baseline of each of your Residential 10 & 30 plans):

Continuous at 3 Mbps would be ((60 seconds X 3 Mbps)/(8 bits/byte) or 22.5 MB file size per minute.
Continuous at 6 Mbps would be 45 MB file size per minute.

What I want to know from you is:

(( (xx burst seconds) X (burst speed) )/(8 bits/byte)) = Burst file size.

or

The Burst file size is XX KB for the 10 Mbps Burst.

The Burst file size is XX KB for the 30 Mbps Burst.

(Their response:) The math for that ends up being a little more complicated than you might think. What you actually get on the burst speed will depend on total system load and possibly the speed of the site you are downloading from; add to that the fact that the burst bucket is constantly refilling.

If you're downloading at 3.1mbps your bucket is filling at 3mbps so you're only depleting it at 0.1mbps. In which case it will last for 1280 seconds, and you would end up downloading 473MB before you've emptied the bucket. At 9mbps you're depleting the burst bucket at 6mbps (because again, it's always filling at 3mbps) and you've ended up downloading 22MB before you've emptied the bucket and you have fallen back to 3mbps.

I'm happy to discuss this in as much detail as you want, but it's largely academic. The important thing is you can expect long downloads to run at 3mbps, and short "bursty" usage to run at the maximum available. In practice, you really don't have to think about it. The only real limitations this QoS policy will impose on you is that you if you download a 1.2GB file you'll have to wait an hour for it to finish, and you won't be able to watch more than one Hi Def video stream at the same time (but multiple SD streams will work; I do it all the time).

I hope that helps.

***
-END OF BODY OF E-MAIL-

From what I have read, this WISP "sounds" to be a very reputable, sensible, and sincere one I can trust. Regarding the technical data this WISP provided, I do need your help whether it falls within normal and reasonable ranges, and legitimate or not.

My further questions to ask you:

1. Your thoughts and ideas on this WISP's response on how long (time wise) does this burst speed last? Please explain.

2. Anything standout you find odd, unusual, or questionable with this WISP's responses or all seem realistic, sensible and acceptable? Please explain.

3. Were you delightedly surprised to any of their responses? Again, please explain.

Please reply.

Thank you!


davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
1. Absolutely perfect detailed answers as to burst conditions. It is based on file size and not time. This is the case for almost all boost or burst features from various ISPs, be they wired or wireless.

2. No odd, unusual, or questionable answers. They should put those details about burst file size on the website. Somewhere in the FAQ section might be a good place or in the detailed description for each service level.

3. No surprise. When discussing data transport conditions, one must learn to ask very specific detailed questions as to how data transport is handled, in order to determine the true value of any particular service offering. Most WISPs will honestly respond to correctly phrased technical questions. If the responses are not satisfactory to the potential customer, then there is no need to spend company funds on site surveys. Seeing as site surveys are not normally reimbursed, this saves the company money and time.

From the answers, I would say the 30 Mbps service is the one to get, if you can afford it. This is based on the requirement to download or stream HD video. If all you can afford is the 10 Mbps service be prepared for long video download times, and lots of buffering for streaming videos. But it can work as a good value because of the no cap on data transferred policy. In the business world you see this often. Low transfer speeds compared to capped residential offerings at the same price.


montecarlo1

join:2013-11-24
Binghamton, NY
reply to Troy
@ davidhoffman:

Hello again. Thank you for your responses once again! I appreciate your analyzing this for me and coming to some good conclusions. Thank you!

May I ask likely one last question I find the most significant to ask you:

I see earlier in a post of yours you indicated that the Residential 30 Mbps plan that, "You will have buffering of HD(1080p) video with a 6 Mbps service. For non-video web searching it will be very good." Now you state, "From the answers, I would say the 30 Mbps service is the one to get, if you can afford it. This is based on the requirement to download or stream HD video." Question: What new information from the data given made you realize that the Residential 30 Mpbs plan WOULD BE OKAY for HD video streaming (Obviously, you STILL ARE in agreement that the Residential 10 Mbps plan is NOT for HD video streaming.)? Please explain well (technically if you can) and point it out from the data/information. This is what I need to understand. This question I see is now the core premise for this whole thread.

Please reply.

Thank you once again!

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Bit_rate

From the above Wikipedia post you can see that the 1080p BluRay has a bit rate of over 30 Megabit per second. That would be a perfect continuous stream with a direct wired connection.

You will be using wireless at 6 Megabits per second continuous.

Netflix uses a stream of 7 Mbps for the Super HD(1080p) service they offer.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix#Streaming

So, you still will be lagging behind the Netflix stream for Super HD if you are at 6 Mbps continuous. Your initial burst of 30 Mbps will help get the stream started, but after that it will be lots of short intervals of buffering.

The same will occur with YouTube 1080p.

»support.google.com/youtube/answe···02?hl=en

As you can see from the above link, YouTube wants 6 Mbps continuous for 1080p. That means 6 Mbps only for the content, not the content plus addressing overhead, which would be about the 7 Mbps that Netflix wants.

If you wanted comfortable streaming, with almost no buffering using the 30 plan, then you would use 720p(NetFlix HD 5Mbps) or better yet 480p(NetFlix DVD 3Mbps). Yes, on a 1080P television it will not look as good as 1080p, but it should be a relatively smooth stream.

If you can wait and let the video download to a significant percentage, then you can play the video and watch while the rest of the video downloads.

montecarlo1

join:2013-11-24
Binghamton, NY
reply to Troy
@ davidhoffman:

Hello again.

Again, thank you very much for your help! You have been wonderful! I have learned a lot!