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Mele20
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join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

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Re: MS014-45 Fix?

??---I posted the link to Woody's article in my comment....but that is ok....good to have it posted twice so no one misses the excellent article!

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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siljaline

Premium Member

Must have missed that (your InfoWorld link) that is. No other news as of this morning.

XPPOS2009
@65.184.20.x

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XPPOS2009

Anon

Impacts XP/POS2009 As Well

This update (KB2993651) and the original one (KB2982791) also impact XP/POS2009. Installing the original causes eventual system instability and spontaneous reboots (no BSODs) every few days - the "re-released" version does the same at a much faster rate (every few hours).

I suspect a kernel heap/memory leak caused by GDI usage (exhaustion?) based upon anecdotal experience/testing. (Win32K.sys and GDI32.DLL are updated in XP/POS2009)

I highly recommend all XP/POS2009 users avoid installing (or uninstalling) both KB2982791 and KB2993651 and hiding these updates at Windows Update.

Also, the initial failure of Windows Update (as reported by some users) after uninstalling either of these updates is also seen (of course in XP/POS2009 it uses IE directed to a Windows Update URL), but again seems to correct itself once the user manually directs IE to update.microsoft.com.

For the record, this is not the first time a kernel/GDI update has caused these instability issues and based upon the historical pattern of released patches, wont be the last.

Cartel
Intel inside Your sensitive data outside
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join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC

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Re: MS014-45 Fix?

Ya good luck hiding the update.
Next month it will be replaced by another KB.
I played this stupid game before.
»RANT: Why bother hiding a MS update?

lordpuffer
Legalize It Joe!
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join:2004-09-19
Old Town, ME
Nokia XS-110G-A
Linksys Velop MX5300

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I have had a couple of unusual errors since installing the MS update. I was updating LibreOffice (to 4.3.1) using the latest version of Chrome on my Win 7 64 bit machine, and after it seemed to finish downloading the main installer, it said "failed - unauthorized permission."

I then tried downloading it again and it downloaded and installed fine. However, when I tried to delete the LibreOffice icon shortcut from my Desktop, it said that I couldn't delete it for the file was still being used by avast.

I then tried to delete it again and it deleted fine. I don't know if these errors were related to the MS update, or were just a coincidence.

Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey

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Triple Helix See Profile, I get the same error but can NOT find the update in my list. I rarely use this computer and only discovered this problem while trying to install a donated copy of Office 2010 today. My last updates were mid-July so this has to have been a problem for a while, but I'm not sure why I can't find the referenced KB#s in my list.

I have tried changing the DNS servers, updating manually and anything else I have come across.

Do you happen to have a direct link to the microsoft KB I should be looking at? I can't access them either but I"m very obviously online.

I just checked my laptop, that I use every day, and it works perfectly running updates. Is there a way to copy updates between two Win7x64 systems?

Thanks
redwolfe_98
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sweet witch, i would suggest that you check for updates for the BIOS for your computer, and updates for any other "intel" drivers that you use.. i saw where one person said they needed to update the bios on their computer.. another person said they needed to update the intel rapid storage drivers..

a rep from microsoft also mentioned that "conduit" scumware could be causing problems.. to help to try to remedy that, try running scans with the "malwarebytes" program, to remove any malware/scumware that it finds, and with "adwcleaner", to remove any malware/scumware that it finds..

another program that can be used to remove malware/scumware is "junkware removal tool"..

you also could do a scan with ESET's "online scanner".. ESET is pretty good at flagging "scumware", unlike many other av-programs..

so, 1. remove malware/scumware.. 2. try updating the BIOS and other intel drivers, if needed.. just some suggestions..

Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
MVM
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Sweet Witch

MVM

Ok, did those, no luck.
redwolfe_98
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here is another suggestion.. try one of the methods on this webpage, to resolve problems with windows updater:

»support.microsoft.com/kb ··· 21/en-us

some people have said that the methods described in the article have resolved the problems that they were having with windows updater..

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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siljaline

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There is no solution other than hiding the Black Tuesday patches, uninstalling the ones that are causing Bricked PC's - and waiting for MS to greenlight something that works.
Those on auto-majic updates should turn that off until more reliable updates sit on the WU server.
The bugs are at MS, not with the users.
redwolfe_98
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p.s. sweet witch, if you look at my last post, above, and the methods that were mentioned in the article did not resolve the problem that you are having with "windows updater", another suggestion, that you could try, would be to rename the "softwaredistribution" folder at "c:\windows\softwaredistribution", renaming it to "softwaredistributionOLD", or "OLDsoftwaredistributionOLD".. i have seen this suggested in trying to remedy the problem with "windows updater".. apparently renaming the "softwaredistribution" folder does not cause a problem, and a new one is generated when running "windows updater"..

if it does cause a problem, hypothetically, just change the name of the folder back to its original name..

i can understand if you are leary of renaming the "softwaredistribution" folder, but the only reason i suggest trying it is because i have seen it suggested in the MS-community forums, for resolving the problem with windows updater, and apparently renaming the folder doesn't cause a problem..

in one of the post that i saw, in the MS-community forum, someone posted some data that was logged when "windows updater" failed to download updates, and the log showed that the problem was due to a conflict with one of the files in the "softwaredistribution" folder, due to a problem with either the file's certificate or with its "digital signature".. renaming the "softwaredistribution" folder, so that everything within the folder is "ignored"/null-ed, might resolve the problem..

dandelion
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Strangely enough I have had loss of usb function with one of the updates on my Win 7... mainly loosing my mouse a few times and having to reinstall...but usb speakers another time or two. I didn't have all of the patches just two and uninstalled them (sorry no record kept of which two though one patch was supposedly a fix). No further usb problems. Not even sure if this is related but thought I would mention.

siljaline
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Click for full size
Running Windows Update with the KB's hidden resets WU components as I've cited elsewhere in this thread.

Screen cap shows yet another ActiveX installed without user knowledge when running WU.
redwolfe_98
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sinjaline, if you are saying that you got another new update for "windows update agent", i suppose that is good.. hopefully it is intended to fix the problem with "windows updater" that MANY people were experiencing after the former recent update for "windows update agent"..

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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siljaline

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You have some good reaffirming points, redwolfe_98 See Profile

altermatt
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White Plains, NY

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Having read in this thread that the "fixed" update messed up WU and other things, I haven't allowed any new updates to download (I never uninstalled the original problematic one, since I didn't experience any problems). But soon it will be a new update Tuesday, and I don't want to avoid updates forever. What I'm concerned about is that the problem updates might still be pushed through along with new fixed ones. Is that possible? Whenever I reboot now, it says "updates are available" but I've been ignoring it . So the question I guess is: if I don't install any updates it was trying to push on me, but then fixed ones come out and I go to install them, will it also install the bad ones?
Mele20
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Here are the revised updates for Sept 2. Microsoft says to UNINSTALL all relevant updates that are PRIOR to these issued yesterday that are revised to fix the continued BSOD's that some were seeing:

»support.microsoft.com/kb ··· 31/en-us (August rollup for Windows 8, Windows RT and Windows Server 2012)

»support.microsoft.com/kb ··· 19/en-us
(August 2014 update rollup for Windows RT 8.1, Windows 8.1, and Windows Server 2012 R2)

Update to support the new currency symbol for the Russian ruble in Windows (Windows Server 2008, 2012, Windows 7, 8, 8.1).

»support.microsoft.com/kb ··· 28/en-us
redwolfe_98
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4 edits

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said by altermatt:

Having read that the "fixed" update messed up WU and other things, I haven't allowed any new updates to download

altermatt, i think you should do what microsoft has advised, uninstall the KB2982791 update and then install the KB2993651.. you can look at the MS14-045 bulletin, and the associated bulletins, for more information:

»technet.microsoft.com/li ··· MS14-045

from what i have read, it seems that installing the KB2993651 update is the first thing to do, before installing any of the other available updates..

personally, if it was me, i would go ahead and install all of the available updates, assuming that there wasn't a problem with "windows updater", which prevented me from doing that..

in response to what mele said, i have only seen where microsoft has adviced people to uninstall the MS14-045/KB2982791 update.. i don't think you need to worry about uninstalling any other updates that might be installed on your computer..

microsoft did say that you could work around some issues with some other updates by uninstalling them, but that was only for people who had issues with the updates and wanted to fix the problem by uninstalling the updates.. if i am not mistaken, the new updates that were just released resolve those issues that people had with earlier releases of the updates..

mele might be right.. maybe the "old" updates need to be uninstalled, but i haven't read that in the bulletins with information about the updates..

if you are going to install the updates, read the information in the bulletins first.. some of the updates have some "prerequisites" where various updates should be installed before installing the new updates..

p.s. i was just reading, in this article, that, to resolve issues with the other updates, UNINSTALL the KB2982791 and install the KB2993651 update which replaced it:

»blogs.windows.com/bloggi ··· 2012-r2/

if microsoft was telling me, over and over and over again, to uninstall the KB2982791 update, i would uninstall it.. however, it might not be absolutely necessary to uninstall it, as long as KB2993651 is installed, in its place..

for all of the new updates, it seemed they had a prerequisite which was to install KB2993651..

XPPOS2009
@65.184.17.x

XPPOS2009

Anon

said by redwolfe_98:

if microsoft was telling me, over and over and over again, to uninstall the KB2982791 update, i would uninstall it.. however, it might not be absolutely necessary to uninstall it, as long as KB2993651 is installed, in its place..

One has to wonder, as a point of obviousness, why it is that if Microsoft is so utterly adamant about repeatedly recommending that KB2982791 be uninstalled, they are not accomplishing that task themselves with a "critical" released "update" that uninstalls it (duh), or as a prerequisite/part of the installation of KB2993651.

Uninstalling previous versions of software as a part of an update/upgrade process is a normal installation procedure and has been for a couple of decades.

Microsoft does it themselves when upgrading from one OS version to another - the Windows install process will remove incompatible drivers, software, OS components/patches/etc (not perfectly of course, but it can and does do it).

Surely, if Microsoft can do that for an entire OS it can do it for one meager patch.

So why isn't Microsoft doing that with KB2993651/KB2982791? (or other similar situations)

Surely its not the explained by the same general incompetence that has struck the windows update/patch management teams as of late that lead to releasing 2 buggy patches, both with known bugs/issues at the time of their release, one (and out-of-band update) to replace (not really) the other and the "replaced" one causing problems on uninstall?

Nah. No incompetence there.

redwolfe_98
Premium Member
join:2001-06-11

redwolfe_98

Premium Member

well, the KB2982791 update caused problems for some people, and the KB2993651 replaces it, resolving the problem..

uninstalling the KB2982791 update may not actually be necessary, but installing the KB2993651 update is necessary.. the KB2993651 replaces the same two files that were installed by the KB2982791 update.. that may be be all that is necessary, to resolve the problems..

altermatt said that he has the KB2982791 installed.. that was why i made the point that it should be uninstalled, as microsoft has advised.. either way, the KB2993651 should be installed..

altermatt said their strategy is to just wait for the next update-tuesday.. the KB2993651 update will be offered to be installed, then, when they check for updates, on the next update-tuesday.. hopefully they will install it, then, if not before..

GuruGuy
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Atlanta, GA

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So should KB2993651 be installed or not. Previously it was said to remove it along with the other patches. It was also suggested to hide it in WU. So now I'm reading that it needs to be installed?
redwolfe_98
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redwolfe_98

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guruguy, no one has reported having any problems as a result of installing the KB2993651 update..

and microsoft did not advise people to uninstall any updates except for the problematic KB2982791 update, which has been replaced by the KB2993651 update..

i am not sure how to put this.. some updates have been re-released and, if you read the bulletins for those re-released updates, they all say that the KB2993651 update must be installed before installing the newly re-released updates..

if you read the "known issues" for the re-released updates, they say that installing the KB2993651 update resolves the problem.. in other words, install the KB2993651 update..

GuruGuy
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join:2002-12-16
Atlanta, GA

GuruGuy

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said by redwolfe_98:

guruguy, no one has reported having any problems as a result of installing the KB2993651 update..

and microsoft did not advise people to uninstall any updates except for the problematic KB2982791 update, which has been replaced by the KB2993651 update..

i am not sure how to put this.. some updates have been re-released and, if you read the bulletins for those re-released updates, they all say that the KB2993651 update must be installed before installing the newly re-released updates..

if you read the "known issues" for the re-released updates, they say that installing the KB2993651 update resolves the problem.. in other words, install the KB2993651 update..

»www.infoworld.com/t/micr ··· s-249342

So are you saying that kb2993651 was re-released and it is ok to install now. Why didn't they just issue it with a new number instead of confusing everyone even more.

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
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That would be twice in as many weeks WU components have reset.
»Re: MS014-45 Fix?
redwolfe_98
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said by GuruGuy:

So are you saying that kb2993651 was re-released and it is ok to install now

no.. the KB2993651 update has not been re-released.. it is the same update, now, as it was when it was originally released.. what i am saying is that there is no real problem with the update that should prevent you from installing it..

here is the KB-article for the KB2993651 update:

»support.microsoft.com/kb/2993651

note that there are two issues with the KB2993651 update.. one is that you can't change custom-fonts while they are loaded and being used by a program.. not a big problem..

the other issue is that, in some cases, there may be some issues with displaying a window that is used by a program.. again, i don't think that is a big problem.. i have only heard of one person that seemed to be affected by that issue..

and of course microsoft is working on resolving those issues..

XPPOS2009
@65.184.17.x

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to redwolfe_98
said by redwolfe_98:

well, the KB2982791 update caused problems for some people, and the KB2993651 replaces it, resolving the problem..

said by redwolfe_98:

guruguy, no one has reported having any problems as a result of installing the KB2993651 update..

»myonlinesecurity.co.uk/m ··· s14-045/

»pureinfotech.com/2014/08 ··· -update/

»answers.microsoft.com/en ··· ?page=56

Thats "resolving"? That's "no reported problems installing KB2993651"?

And of course, I reported on flaws with both patches on XPPOS2009 right up there ^. You did read, right?

If x3651 simply replaces x2791, then why is it "heavily recommended" (by Microsoft) to uninstall x2791?

Perhaps because it doesn't (its still there, in the installed updates list).

Could that perhaps explain why some users continue to experience the same issues, and why Microsoft heavily recommends uninstalling x2791 before installing x3651?

And it still doesnt address the issue of why MS is not uninstalling x2791 via the WU process or requiring the user to as a prerequisite for installing x3651.

Even if due to patch process incompetence WU is unable to uninstall the x2791 update, why allow x3651 to be installed by the user?

Can't Windows Update detect installed updates? Yes, it can, and does.
Can't WU deny an update based upon installed/not installed updates? Yes, it can, and does.

So, WU can detect x2791 (a heavily recommended uninstall due to serious quality issues), but still allows x3651 to be installed anyway?

There is a word for this - gross incompetence.

Pretending that x3651 "resolves" the issues of x2791 and has no reported problems isn't doing anyone any favors.

Time for a little more research and informed consent advocacy.
Frodo
join:2006-05-05

Frodo

Member

Going to the article that describes the vulnerabilities addressed by this update, I see:
quote:
An attacker must have valid logon credentials and be able to log on locally to exploit these vulnerabilities.
For most home users, remotely exploitable vulnerabilities are the chief concerns. People logging on locally are not a concern; not the enemy.

So, I uninstalled the updates reported to be defective, and didn't install the replacements, since they are not completely devoid of defects.

According to the bulletin, the attacker must ... be able to log on locally.

When I looked at my primary browser in process manager, I saw LOCAL, CONSOLE LOGIN, INTERACTIVE. I don't know whether these groups would somewhat allow a remote attacker to acquire privileges available to a locally logged on user.

I'm testing shutting these groups off from my browser now. I'm a big believer in "least privilege". If the attacker somehow had local login credentials, I don't want my browsers to be a conduit to log on locally. So far, I'm not seeing any degradation.

Expand your moderator at work
Frodo

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Re: MS014-45 Fix?

"An attacker must have valid logon credentials and be able to log on locally..."
I guess the context can be different, logon credentials are ID and password in most contexts.

For example, in a page discussing saving your logon credentials Microsoft says:
quote:
Saving your credentials shortens connection time

Not needing to type your credentials each time you connect to a remote computer makes connecting a little faster.
The item typed is ID and password.

Insofar as "log on locally" Microsoft says:
quote:
When you limit physical access to a server, you limit who can log on locally to the server ...
So, reading literally what Microsoft says, the attacker must have physical access and know an ID and password. If that is not the case, then the exploit is remotely exploitable.

Now, whether we can rely on what Microsoft said, well that's a different story.
redwolfe_98
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i hope, come update-tuesday, there is a big message, at the "microsoft update" website, that says "YOU MUST INSTALL THE KB2993651 UPDATE BEFORE ANY OTHER UPDATES WILL BE INSTALLED!"

as far as i know, all of the recently re-released updates say that installing the KB2993651 update is a prerequisite for installing the updates..

if, somehow, people are able to install updates, without installing the KB2993651 update, it will be interesting to see if people's computers are not completely trashed, since microsoft says that installing the KB2993651 resolves issues with several other updates that we already know of, not to mention any new updates that may be released on update-tuesday..

have fun.. if you find that your computer is completely trashed, because you refused to install the KB2993651 update, well, live and learn: "i should have listened to microsoft.. i should have read the MS-bulletins.. i should have listened to redwolfe"..