dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
7303
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned)

Member

Push mower oil change?

Click for full size
I have some no-name brand push mower that does not have any fancy bells or whistles. No bagger, no self propelled, etc. I bought it used for like $30 or $40 in 2010 when I bought my house and it runs fine with me neglecting it. Haven't touched the oil since I bought it. I checked the oil at the beginning of the summer and it was nice and black. I checked it earlier today and I didn't see anything on the dip stick. The cap said put SAE30 in it.

How exactly does one do an oil change on a push mower? Is there a filter? Is there a way to drain the oil? Or do like I did and just poured in probably half a quart until it hit the full mark on the dip stick, and called it a day?

When I went to Walmart looking for SAE 30, this picture caught my eye... "It is not suitable for use in most gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1930. Use in modern engines may cause unsatisfactory engine performance or equipment harm." uhhhh, so what CAN it be used in? A model T?

I ended up spending a $1.50 more for some brand name SAE 30 that mentioned it was ok to use in push mowers, etc.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

if there is no drain plug on bottom, turn it upside down and drain out dipstick, then refill
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned)

Member

Any idea how many quarts a small push mower might need?
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

prolly less then 1

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
When I changed my mower's oil I used some royal purple 5w30 and it did fine.
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned)

Member

I had some of that left over from my car's oil change. Was debating whether or not to use it since I'd rather have put synthetic in the lawn mower. I figured I'd just stick to what it was designed to use (SAE 30).

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix

Premium Member

the diff between 5w30 and sae30 is just the "thinkness" at low temp.

SAE30 is 30 weight at operating temp and so is 5W30 but SAE30 will get overly thick at low temps but 5w30 is still fluid enough to start at -20F

Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV

Beezel to fartness

Member

to fartness
Common 3.5 horse mowers usually need only a pint or so of oil.

lew_b
Premium Member
join:2003-05-11
Poughkeepsie, NY

lew_b to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
My mower says use 30W oil. I put in 5W30 once. Mower belched smoke like a mo-fo when it started and then would stop as it warmed up.
I now use 30W, like they tell me to
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

Hellrazor to fartness

Member

to fartness
3 choices to drain the oil...

1. Look for a drain plug underneath the mower deck.
2. Look for a drain plug near the bottom of the motor.
3. By a cheap oil siphon, tip the mower towards the dipstick side and pump it out.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77 to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
Oil capacity will be per the engine manufacturer. What model engine do you have? There should be a nameplate on the engine itself. And a few pictures are worth a thousand words each.

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

pende_tim

Premium Member

Or if no data available on engine add a little oil, like 1/2 pint, at a time and keep checking the dipstick.

MOST small engines typically use less than a quart however the owners manual or dipstick are the ultimate authority.
ImpetusEra
Premium Member
join:2004-05-19
00000

1 recommendation

ImpetusEra to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
Look for drain plug on the bottom. I'd say most push mowers are 18 to 21 ounces so maybe add about 15 ounces and check the stick after it sits for a few minutes to settle. I use synthetic 5w30 in pushers and snow thrower. Only the oldest pusher will smoke a little now and then when using synthetic.

Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium Member
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX

Thespis to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
Nice and black? Did you notice the color of the new oil you put in? Black is bad...

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77

Premium Member

In an old mower like his, where some blow by is likely, they'll all be black after short run time. My 1987 Toro's oil turns black pretty quick, even with Amsoil synthetic. My new Toro does not.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

tschmidt to fartness

MVM

to fartness
Modern engines use detergent oil to reduce deposit buildup, the concern is if you begin using detergent oil in an old engine it will loosen up accumulated crud. Detergent oil meets modern API requirements, which it what is probably called out in the mowers owners manual.

We have a push mower with a Honda engine. There is no drain plug so you have to tip it over the drain the oil. Turn off the gas it if has a valve or run it dry.

If possible find the user manual for the engine. On our engine when checking oil you don't screw the dip stick in, just stick it in the hole. Screwing the dip stick in will slightly over fill the engine.

/tom

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix to lew_b

Premium Member

to lew_b
said by lew_b:

My mower says use 30W oil. I put in 5W30 once. Mower belched smoke like a mo-fo when it started and then would stop as it warmed up.
I now use 30W, like they tell me to

Must a been some bad oil or really old mower, I haven't had any issue.

I'd have looked into a gasket rebuild kit, maybe the gaskets have worn out and the 5w30 "helped" remove the deposits that were holding in the oil. (happens on high mileage cars sometimes when they go synthetic. Just bad gaskets)

Pacrat
Old and Cranky
MVM
join:2001-03-10
Cortland, OH

Pacrat to fartness

MVM

to fartness
I would never use a non-detergent oil. Detergent in the oil helps keep contaminants in suspension, keeping the engine internals cleaner. Always tip a small engine away from the carb. Usually the fill port/drain plug are on the opposite side of the engine. Older engines usually did not have a dip stick. Just a two-eared drain plug, and filling instructions usually recommended filling to the bottom of the threads, or some indicator "slot" in the threads. Always remember to change the oil when it's hot. That's because hot oil carries the "junk" out more easily because the heat helps keep the contaminants suspended in the oil (stirred up) and doesn't allow them to settle out (stick to) internal surfaces. The whole purpose for changing oil is to get solid contaminants out of the engine... along with refreshing the oil's properties for lubrication. Heat and gasoline blow-by (bad rings) cause lubricants to "break down" over time, and it loses its lubrication properties.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

2 recommendations

XXXXXXXXXXX1 to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
I would skip the "tip it sideways" method and use a vacuum extractor instead. MUCH easier and cleaner. Here's the one I use for all my OPE (and vehicles occasionally as well). I would definitely recommend it for your purposes.

»www.amazon.com/America-5 ··· 1445IZ8/
PrntRhd
Premium Member
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

PrntRhd

Premium Member

Vaccum extractors are ok but I would much rather get any metal particles out of the crankcase by draining it via a drain plug or out of the filler pipe. No matter the method, changing the oil is better than not.
To the OP, detergent oil is better because it suspends the contaminants, so when you do a drain/flush the crud is more likely to be purged. Also most small lawn mowers do not have oil pumps w oil filters to trap that stuff so the oil drain/fill is expected to remove all of the stuff. I always put in the recommended weight for air cooled motors in accordance with the ambient temperature the equipment is operating in.
tembuck2tech
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Concord, NC

tembuck2tech to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
I have a generic mower with a Briggs and Stratton and it holds about twenty ounces up to the full mark on the dipstick.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki to PrntRhd

Member

to PrntRhd
said by PrntRhd:

Vaccum extractors are ok but I would much rather get any metal particles out of the crankcase by draining it via a drain plug or out of the filler pipe. No matter the method, changing the oil is better than not.

Use a magnet if the engine body is steel or cast iron, doesn't work with aluminum ones though. Lot of old lawn mowers used to stick a magnet on the end of the dipstick for that purpose, or add one to the drain plug. Quite a few older cars as well when they still used steel/iron blocks. Then again, when shopping for a mower I usually look to see if there's a drain plug in the first place. It's piss poor laziness or cheapness when they don't put one in.

NissanPower
join:2001-03-31
London, ON

NissanPower to fartness

Member

to fartness
To answer the question of 'what good is this NON-detergent oil' , well, it's made for many things that aren't internal combustion engines... such as air compressors, pumps, and even some small hydraulic systems use this type of oil.

Myself, I have an old floor jack and an air compressor that use SAE 30 NON-detergent oil.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
Black oil means it's time to be changed. The black color is showing that it's dirty. I hope your car isn't like that.
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits

fixrman to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
Good call. SAE 30 is the way to go for about 40 degrees and above, but you can go with 10w30 as well. But who cuts grass under 40 degrees? By the way, there is a drain plug on it. Make sure to disconnect the plug wire before you put it op on saw horses or whatever to drain it. It is underneath, just where you would think it would be. The Briggs and Stratton Chart:




If SAE 30 is hard to find, just use 10W30. Anything fancy won't make a difference, just dinosaur squeezins will be fine.

** Sorry, do NOT use non-detergent. That is why the oil is unsuitable for anything after ~1930.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

2 recommendations

Lurch77 to onebadmofo

Premium Member

to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

Black oil means it's time to be changed. The black color is showing that it's dirty. I hope your car isn't like that.

If black color is a sign telling you it needs to be changed, every diesel engine needs an oil change every couple hours.

In fact that is one of the myths with engine oil. The color, black or otherwise, is not a good indicator that it needs to be changed.
said by fixrman:

By the way, there is a drain plug on it. Make sure to disconnect the plug wire before you put it op on saw horses or whatever to drain it. It is underneath, just where you would think it would be.

Not necessarily. My two newer Briggs powered Toros have no drain plugs. The Briggs engine manual says to drain by tipping and dumping it out the filler tube. My older Tecumseh powered Toro has a plug underneath, as did the previous Yard Machine with a Briggs.

onebadmofo
gat gnitsoP
Premium Member
join:2002-03-30
Pennsylvania

onebadmofo

Premium Member

said by Lurch77:

said by onebadmofo:

Black oil means it's time to be changed. The black color is showing that it's dirty. I hope your car isn't like that.

If black color is a sign telling you it needs to be changed, every diesel engine needs an oil change every couple hours.

In fact that is one of the myths with engine oil. The color, black or otherwise, is not a good indicator that it needs to be changed.
said by fixrman:

By the way, there is a drain plug on it. Make sure to disconnect the plug wire before you put it op on saw horses or whatever to drain it. It is underneath, just where you would think it would be.

Not necessarily. My two newer Briggs powered Toros have no drain plugs. The Briggs engine manual says to drain by tipping and dumping it out the filler tube. My older Tecumseh powered Toro has a plug underneath, as did the previous Yard Machine with a Briggs.

Gas engines aren't diesel engines. Do you put diesel fuel in your gas engine?

Black oil's viscosity is broken down. The color black is from the dirt it picks up from within the engine, and from it being used and slightly burnt off during normal engine operations. All this shows as black color which is why when it's time to change it, it's color is black.

Those who like to not follow the manufacturer's recommendations are usually super cool people who know their shit. Nah not really, they're just the type of person who sells their oil burning car just before it's on it's last breath.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

No, Lurch is spot on with this. The color of the oil does not indicate the need to change it. And oil turning black relatively quickly can actually mean it is cleaning and suspending contaminants better than oils that stay a more golden color longer.

The only way to actually check if an oil needs to be changed is to perform a UOA with a lab such as Oil Analyzers or Blackstone. Anything else is really just making an educated guess.

shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium Member
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA
(Software) pfSense
ARRIS SB6121

shdesigns to fartness

Premium Member

to fartness
The black in the oil is an additive that turns dark in the presence of certain factors (I think PH was one.)

In my Jeep, oil very quickly tuns black. Probably because there is still a considerable amount of old oil that will re-trigger the change (remote oil filter made it worse.).

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

1 recommendation

Lurch77 to onebadmofo

Premium Member

to onebadmofo
said by onebadmofo:

Gas engines aren't diesel engines. Do you put diesel fuel in your gas engine?

I wasn't trying to say they are the same thing. I was sayign that if we go on color alone, diesel owners would be changing their oil daily. The black mostly comes from suspended contaminants that will be carried to the oil filter. The oil is doing its job.

In the case of the OP here, well yeah, you are likely correct. He admitted he hasn't maintained the machine. And oil that is past its life is almost always black in color. But color alone is not a normal indicator used to gauge if oil is broke down or otherwise bad. Even in most gasoline engines with some miles on them your oil will be black well before the regular change interval comes around.
quote:
[Myth] 4. Check the oil on the dipstick. If it's black, change the oil. Experts say this is a myth, as is the related notion that you can identify spent oil by smell. "That is old school," says Kristen Huff, vice president of Blackstone Laboratories in Fort Wayne, Indiana. "Oil is meant to get dark — it means it's doing its job," she says. As GM's Matt Snider says in this video, different additives change the oil's color. The bottom line: Black oil still has plenty of life left in it.
»www.edmunds.com/car-care ··· oil.html
quote:
Question:
Should Synthetic Oil Darkening in Color be Changed?
I own a 5.4 liter Ford engine with 90,000 miles. I purchased it with 87,000 miles and at that time chose to use Mobil 1. I've run the Mobil 1 in this engine for 3,000 miles and my oil appears to be "black" in color. I have a few thoughts as to why this is occurring but thought I would ask the experts...........
-- Gary Faupel, St. Louis, MO

Answer:
We would never use color alone as an indication to gauge whether or not you should change your motor oil. Without oil analysis you can reach the wrong conclusion about oil quality and in many cases darker engine oil is not a sign of any issue or problem. Some additives used in modern oils can produce a dark color over time and this is normal. It is best to change your oil based on time in months or miles. Of course, the number of miles and months depends on many things like service, climate, engine condition, etc. It may be possible in your case that the color could be indicating that since this is the first time the engine may have seen Mobil 1™ synthetic oil, that the strong additive package is doing some clean-up in your engine. Do you know what kind of service this engine received? To be safe we would use a shorter drain interval in your vehicle for a couple of Mobil 1 oil changes, and gradually extend the drain interval as you go to the drain interval you feel most comfortable with.
»www.mobiloil.com/USA-Eng ··· ged.aspx