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btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

1 recommendation

btech805 to MeterGuy

Member

to MeterGuy

Re: Cost of smart meters vs analog meters

Municipalities will soon introduce "peak" usage like hydro. Glad im on a well and obtained the land patent to the mineral rights on my property. Good luck sticking a meter on my house.

I can't see gas being far behind in all of this. Speaking of which my gas meter is broken and enbridge has been out four times each guy saying the meter is broken and is ordering a part and nothing yet. I received a $600 credit one month then a $600 bill thats when I called and they said something was messed up

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by btech805:

Municipalities will soon introduce "peak" usage like hydro.

Evidence?

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to btech805

Premium Member

to btech805
said by btech805:

Municipalities will soon introduce "peak" usage like hydro.

No they won't. And they won't for gas, either. There are reasons why peak timing makes sense for hydro, and those reasons do not extend to water or gas.

walterdees
@206.47.249.x

walterdees to DKS

Anon

to DKS
the reason your water utility is switching to smart meters is not only to eliminate manual meter readings, but to completely remove the estimated reads from the billing system it cost them more in the long run to keep estimating and adjusting.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned) to Gone

Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

said by btech805:

Municipalities will soon introduce "peak" usage like hydro.

No they won't. And they won't for gas, either. There are reasons why peak timing makes sense for hydro, and those reasons do not extend to water or gas.

Who said they need a practical reason for peek usage metrics to find a way to gouge customers.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

The cost of each individual municipality to implement their own billing system to handle it would be reason alone for it to never happen. The hydro companies would have never done it either if the province didn't force them into it.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to btech805

Premium Member

to btech805
Buddy of mine lives on the outskirts of Bobcaygeon. He had a well, "Kwaratha lakes" forced him to go on 'town water'
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805

Member

Like I said, ive obtained the lands patent right to the minerals and resources below my property, which you have to physically apply for from the province, so the municipality can never meter or charge me for my water. Unless of course they pipe in a sewer and tear up my road.

As for reasoning for peak usage they dont need one. Hydro does it and has absolutely no reason for it now. They say it promotes conservation of energy but every time we conserve electricity in this province it gets sold to the states and Quebec at a loss, so it would be cheaper for us to be using more electricity than saving it. Right now it costs us on average of $4M/day to sell excess power because we're conserving energy and peak usage is designed to conserve even more energy. So no, a municipality doesn't need a scientific reason for doing so, the Liberals certainly didn't.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by btech805:

As for reasoning for peak usage they dont need one. Hydro does it and has absolutely no reason for it now. They say it promotes conservation of energy but every time we conserve electricity in this province it gets sold to the states and Quebec at a loss, so it would be cheaper for us to be using more electricity than saving it.

Smart meters and peak usage rates are simply a form of social engineering intended to shift load.

digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium Member
join:2000-07-15
GTA

2 edits

digitalfutur

Premium Member

said by DKS:

said by btech805:

As for reasoning for peak usage they dont need one. Hydro does it and has absolutely no reason for it now. They say it promotes conservation of energy but every time we conserve electricity in this province it gets sold to the states and Quebec at a loss, so it would be cheaper for us to be using more electricity than saving it.

Smart meters and peak usage rates are simply a form of social engineering intended to shift load.

Correct. Since analog meters don't support time of use rate variance, it doesn't make any sense to have such a policy but have no way to execute it.

Union Gas replaced our gas meter a few months ago due to age, but it was replaced with another analog meter.

All our utilizes are on the West side of the house, as is the A/C unit, each separated by a little over a metre.
peterboro (banned)
Avatars are for posers
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

Member

I see that someone thought it was a brilliant idea to exhaust deadly gasses that drop as they dissipate a couple feet above your basement window.

Is it possible you were near that window and a little groggy when you posting your usually Con defences. Just saying.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan

Premium Member

said by peterboro:

I see that someone thought it was a brilliant idea to exhaust deadly gasses that drop as they dissipate a couple feet above your basement window.

That install isn't to code...

The gas meter, and possibly the furnace exhaust are too close to that window... Should be a minimum 1 m clearance. It would be 'iffy' to the dryer vent as well.

As for DKS's meter install - that's a perfectly normal installation... The piping often support the meter.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by LazMan:

That install isn't to code...

He might just barely be code. Union Gas (who I believe serve Burlington) say three feet, and it looks like he's just barely got a three foot radius around the gas meter.

»www.uniongas.com/~/media ··· gram.pdf
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805

Member

And I believe venting is 1 foot from a window, and he has JUST that.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

1 recommendation

Gone

Premium Member

Yup. Typical GTA tract subdivision construction. Do it as quickly and as cheaply as the bare minimum requires.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan to btech805

Premium Member

to btech805
said by btech805:

And I believe venting is 1 foot from a window, and he has JUST that.

Minimum 3' from the regulator vent to an opening window, door, air intake, etc...

Not a compliant install, unless the house is old enough to have the placement grandfathered from a previous code revision.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

It may not be an opening window, albeit it sure looks like a slider.

Everything about that install, if compliant, looks bare bare bare minimum to the point where the person signing off on it would need a tape measure to know.

digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium Member
join:2000-07-15
GTA

digitalfutur

Premium Member

A tape measure it is...

60,000 BTU furnace.

* 16" furnace exhaust vent to horizontal center of sliding window
* 48" radius from gas meter to A/C
* 34" radius from gas meter to gas dryer vent
* 36" radius from gas meter to furnace air intake
* 36" radius from gas meter to center of sliding window
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

Premium Member

That furnace exhaust is way too close to the window.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

An exhaust for a furnace that size only needs to be one foot away from a window that opens or a door.

Not that you'd want it that close, but that's all you need. As I said, nothing more than the bare minimum necessary to close the sale and move on to the next one is what one should expect from houses like these.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805

Member

Amen. While my construction background hates Mike Holmes and his shows (for the numerous freebies that appear in his shows, that the average person simply will not or cannot pay for), his message that minimum code is unacceptable when you actually care for your customers is very true. However today's cookie cutter houses are slapped up by worker's paid by piece work and minimum code maximizes profit for the workers and the developer.

And don't get me started on fire ratings...

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by btech805:

Amen. While my construction background hates Mike Holmes and his shows (for the numerous freebies that appear in his shows, that the average person simply will not or cannot pay for), his message that minimum code is unacceptable when you actually care for your customers is very true. However today's cookie cutter houses are slapped up by worker's paid by piece work and minimum code maximizes profit for the workers and the developer.

Mike Holmes does things that look good for TV, but a lot of the stuff he talks about is either outright wrong, or so over-the-top and excessive that it does nothing more than cause confusion which leads to weekend warriors who think that they know more than someone who has been in the business for 40 years. Dricore is one in particular that makes me cringe every time I see him use it or flog it.

While he makes a point about minimum code not being enough, I would still be quite happy if he just disappeared.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

1 edit

BonezX

Premium Member

Some of his stuff is a little bit on the advertisement side, but the contractors he brings in do some seriously nice work.

The per-source shutoff setup they used in one episode kinda made me chuckle, considering that my dad threw one together in the basement of the house when he decided the old copper pipes needed to go, and that was a good 2 - 3 years ago before everyone decided that plastic plumbing is a good idea.

And yes, he overbuilds a little bit at times, but considering the fuckups that you see on that show, I would have to try REALLY hard to not gut a house before I buy it(and i don't think anyone makes NDT gear for houses).

one of the first things we were told to watch before we started the HVAC part of my program was this.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· AcWpOYAA

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Manifolds are nice, but overkill. There are benefits to using pex even without one.

And overbuilding isn't the issue, it's partial information that people see on TV, assume is the gospel without the prerequisite knowledge to put it into context, and then believe everyone else who has a more pragmatic view on the world of home renovation is the kind of junktractor that he talks about on TV. And then when you offer to do it for them the way Mike Holmes would do it, they think you're a scam artist for charging them what it actually costs. Like I said, I would be happier if he just went away.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

BonezX

Premium Member

PEX is an awesome system, but I would never pay what they want for a manifold especially when I'm capable of making it myself. Overall it does make such a nice install.

I guess I don't run into that situation much, I mostly just watch the building processes, could care less about the talking part of it, and I'm very likely to not move towards that part of the engineering world at least at a professional level.

digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium Member
join:2000-07-15
GTA

1 recommendation

digitalfutur to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
Holmes always offers the Cadillac fix, which is nice when there's no labour cost. In the real world, cost matters.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805 to Gone

Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

Manifolds are nice, but overkill. There are benefits to using pex even without one.

And overbuilding isn't the issue, it's partial information that people see on TV, assume is the gospel without the prerequisite knowledge to put it into context, and then believe everyone else who has a more pragmatic view on the world of home renovation is the kind of junktractor that he talks about on TV. And then when you offer to do it for them the way Mike Holmes would do it, they think you're a scam artist for charging them what it actually costs. Like I said, I would be happier if he just went away.

This is exactly it. People see the products he preaches as gospel on tv and when they receive the quote for those products they think you are a scam artist. Dricore and ditra sub floors being the big two. Nothing wrong with 5/8" plywood in my opinion. I worked for a company for 3 years doing commercial renovations and still do the odd side gig with a buddy of mine, but the biggest problem here in Ottawa is that it doesn't matter how much the products truly cost, there is always either some kid (which I am still) or quebecer willing to work for 12 bucks an hour to take home at the end of the day and under cut you and use the expensive products people see Holmes use. Then once they ruin everything is usually when I get a call back from the client who's now paying twice to have the same job done. I'm sorry but I have more pride in my work and i call use subcontractors for the plumbing and electrical work as the LAW calls for, than to work for 12 bucks an hour, let alone I have a steady full time job as it is, but there is always some "handy man" willing to do it.

The last job I quoted last week the client wanted a full bathroom reno, gutted right to the studs, aqua board all around, new venting (a lot of mould from improper ventilation), build a custom glass shower, new tile (and of course ditra because thats what the client wanted) and vanity and I quoted them just under 10 grand and they got back to me saying someone quoted them 3500 and wondering if I would come down. My material costs were most than that, and my truck would've swallowed another $500 in fuel over the course of the 2 weeks it would have taken, and the tax man takes another 20-30% from what ever is left of course.

Oh well like I said, luckily I have a steady full time job and this is strictly a side gig between a buddy of mine and me, but I really feel for full time contractors in Ottawa being under cut by le belle province, especially when we cannot work there. At some point something has to give and the friends I do have who still work in the industry are stuck then under cutting that cost just to keep money coming in, but at those rates it truly is cheaper to just not work.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

BonezX

Premium Member

Speaking of undercutting, unless the client sees it go up(most of them don't) they have no sweet clue what is in the walls until something goes wrong. Mind you that's pretty much the reason why Homes still has a TV show.

It's kinda shitty, but people are inherently cheap, and the ones that aren't are usually in a compatible trade to the work that is required.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to btech805

Premium Member

to btech805
When one lifts up Dricore and sees what grows underneath when you have moisture with no airflow, they realize why it's a bad system. You're better off just letting the moisture breath through the house and be removed by mechanical means than to try and trap it somewhere.

But for tile, 5/8" exterior grade plywood is bare minimum per ttmac. For OSB it's 3/4". On newer homes with engineered joist systems that are spaced further apart you get more flex and will run into issues using these minimums. For us, we won't do it unless we have 3/4" total subfloor assuming some of it is plywood. A decoupling membrane like Ditra prevents cracking due to flexing in the subfloor. Noble Company, Prova and a few others make similar products so there's choice in the market. We're big on Schluter products because of the warranty and support, but they all do the same thing. We get a lot of people who want to do is this way so that their tile meets up to existing 3/4" hardwood, they have a product called Ditra XL for that.

Waterproofing is where Ditra and Kerdi really shine, though. I wouldn't build a shower without it and beside Noble Company's products I won't trust anything other than Schluter's products, either. Amusingly enough, Mike Holmes is no longer flogging Schluter stuff, he's now using a Canadian product (name escapes me) that is yellow rather than orange and sold at - you guessed it - Lowes.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

Premium Member

I think you're seriously confusing Bryan Baeumler for Mike Holmes. Bryan is the "more polished" of the two and does flog Lowes and their products ad nauseum. He also pushes the Dricore subfloor system.

Is Holmes over the top? Of course. That's what makes for entertaining tv. But you can't deny his underlying messages that minimum code sucks and if you're going to do something do it right the first time.