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Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

NFC in iPhone 6

If the rumors are true (we'll find out next week), and the iPhone 6 really does have NFC, this could be a huge change in the way we pay at the register. I know NFC has been around for a long time, and many other mobile phones make use of the NFC technology for easy payment, but with Apple supporting it, we can see big changes.

Out of everything, and even if I don't get the IP6, I'm excited at the prospect of the phone having NFC. Finally, maybe what I envision for the way we pay at the register might become a reality.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
Millions of Android devices with NFC didn't change much. Major reason is you're relying on sleeping giants(retailers, banks, etc) to suddenly embrace new technology in a flash. On the upside, NFC can be used for other neat things.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
If Apple manages to work out some kind of agreement with VISA/MC and their paywave terminals would all be compatible, and they're in a LOT of places now.
--



Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
Maybe it's just here in the US, but I still see payment terminals from the 1990s at many retailers still. Many are still at least 10 years old. We're talking a box with a basic LCD with built-in dial up modem old.


Nezmo
The name's Bond. James Bond.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-11-10
Coppell, TX
kudos:1
said by Selenia:

Maybe it's just here in the US, but I still see payment terminals from the 1990s at many retailers still. Many are still at least 10 years old. We're talking a box with a basic LCD with built-in dial up modem old.

Nah, that's just Arkansas. Just kidding. I agree, lots of very old terminals around still.
--
My Gallery
Formerly Nezmo


haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1
Off topic, but on topic, too...many retailers (in light of the spate of credit card breaches, yesterday Home Depot got hit) are bringing back "knuckle busters" (the old, swipe to imprint, machines) »online.wsj.com/articles/will-cre···09365854

Also off topic, but on topic, too...has any been using the physical Apple Store's self pay? It's awesome. My last purchase I was in the store for about 45 seconds. Walked in, picked up item, as I was walking out, clicked a few buttons and was out of the store. Including walk time from parking lot, I managed to return to car and the news program on the radio was still on the same block of commercials. I can't wait for NFC payments!
If Apple does for payments what they did for mobile computing, this will be huge.


Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Selenia
said by Selenia:

Millions of Android devices with NFC didn't change much. Major reason is you're relying on sleeping giants(retailers, banks, etc) to suddenly embrace new technology in a flash. On the upside, NFC can be used for other neat things.

NFC didn't change anything because while there are millions of androids, there are multiple manufacturers (Google, Samsung, HTC, etc). This complicates everything.

One manufacturer (Apple), one standard (NFC) can really move the NFC technology forward and make paying at the register a whole lot easier, faster, safer, and more secure.
--
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HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Selenia
said by Selenia:

Maybe it's just here in the US, but I still see payment terminals from the 1990s at many retailers still. Many are still at least 10 years old. We're talking a box with a basic LCD with built-in dial up modem old.

I havent seen those here for a good 5+ years, basically since they mandated all cards be chipped. I'd say at least 50% of the places I shop at have a NFC capable terminal.
--



ptrowski
Got Helix?
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join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
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reply to Rob
You are also forgetting the carriers trying to create their own system instead of allowing things like Google Wallet. There are more things to it than just an Apple/Android issue.


banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to HiVolt
The U.S. is far, far behind Canada and many countries in Europe when it comes to the employment of EMV cards and point-of-sale terminals that can use them. I visited Toronto last week for the first time in some years, and was momentarily confused by the "tap to pay" terminals on vending machines and other places.

In contrast, only just yesterday was I issued the first credit card I've ever owned that had an EMV chip in it. And it's effectively useless to me, because I've never once shopped at a retailer in the U.S. that could utilize it.

I believe all that will begin changing here at an accelerated pace in the next year or so, though. Apparently some new standards are taking effect in October 2015 which will require more retail outlets to adhere to EMV standards: »www.qsrmagazine.com/exclusives/a···eady-emv

What I found interesting about my visit to Toronto is that, although many point-of-sale terminals are equipped for EMV cards, I found myself signing a paper receipt much more often than in the U.S. In many stores here, we sign for credit purchases on a tablet-like terminal with an attached touch pen. I usually only sign paper receipts at restaurants these days. Maybe this is a requirement in Canada only when paying via the old magnetic stripe method, and if you use EMV you can just input a PIN instead?
--
"The counsel of fools is all the more dangerous the more of them there are." -?lafr H?skuldsson


HiVolt
Premium
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Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
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The only time you sign a paper receipt here (or on a touch pen terminal) is when you swipe the magnetic stripe on the card. If you use the chip & pin, or the tap it does not require a signed receipt.

Most terminals will detect that you have a chip card, so even if you attempt to swipe it first it will say insert the chip. Only if the chip fails, it allows the swipe as a backup.
--



Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
reply to Rob
The hardware still follows the same protocols and still runs on the Android software stack. Google Wallet was the gold standard software for this. As to the comment below yours, I recall 1 carrier trying to block Google Wallet and it is the 1 carrier I will not do business with for so many reasons-Verizon Wireless. But anyways, brand of hardware is irrelevant if it is running compatible software. Same thing would apply on the terminal end if retailers ever get theirs into the 21st century this century lol

Riamen
Premium
join:2002-11-04
Calgary
reply to banditws6
said by banditws6:

What I found interesting about my visit to Toronto is that, although many point-of-sale terminals are equipped for EMV cards, I found myself signing a paper receipt much more often than in the U.S. In many stores here, we sign for credit purchases on a tablet-like terminal with an attached touch pen. I usually only sign paper receipts at restaurants these days. Maybe this is a requirement in Canada only when paying via the old magnetic stripe method, and if you use EMV you can just input a PIN instead?

It could be that since almost everyone here has a chip card, touch pen tablets are seen as an unnecessary expense.


Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Selenia
said by Selenia:

The hardware still follows the same protocols and still runs on the Android software stack. Google Wallet was the gold standard software for this. As to the comment below yours, I recall 1 carrier trying to block Google Wallet and it is the 1 carrier I will not do business with for so many reasons-Verizon Wireless. But anyways, brand of hardware is irrelevant if it is running compatible software. Same thing would apply on the terminal end if retailers ever get theirs into the 21st century this century lol

Yes, it is the same hardware and protocols. But when you have just one company (Apple) working with multiple card providers, it makes it much easier to implement the process.
--
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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to ptrowski
Yes, one of the carriers up here, Rogers, has created it's own bank, currently for it's own customers only.
--
My Name is Wiley E Coyote, Super Genius

Daemon
Premium
join:2003-06-29
Berkeley, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·webpass.net
reply to banditws6
said by banditws6:

In contrast, only just yesterday was I issued the first credit card I've ever owned that had an EMV chip in it. And it's effectively useless to me, because I've never once shopped at a retailer in the U.S. that could utilize it.

I believe all that will begin changing here at an accelerated pace in the next year or so, though. Apparently some new standards are taking effect in October 2015 which will require more retail outlets to adhere to EMV standards: »www.qsrmagazine.com/exclusives/a···eady-emv

Yep, after October 2015, retailers that can't accept an EMV card when one is presented will take on the liability of fraudulent transactions instead of the issuer. Note that you'll still be able to swipe, and the issuer will still cover fraud done with swipes. The merchant only assumes liability if they can't accept EMV.

Just about everyone here accepts EMV now. In the last 2 months, the pace of replacement has really accelerated and almost everyone has the new readers. Most also have the NFC/paywave reader, but not all of them do. Retailers are going to be really irritated if they have to replace all of the readers a second time if NFC takes off, which leads me to believe uptake will be slow.

Note that most cards issued with a chip in the USA right now are chip+signature cards. They don't have a PIN attached to them, though they do use the EMV circuitry. That's a stopgap until they are ready for the chip+pin rollout.

If Apple does rollout NFC, I really hope they don't tie the fingerprint reader solely to the card attached to an iTunes account. I have 4 cards I use regularly, only one of which is attached to iTunes. (As an aside, the Family feature in iOS8 being tied to a single card is annoying for that same reason)
--
-Ryan
I use Linux, OS X, iOS and Windows. Let the OS wars die.


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

2 recommendations

reply to Rob
Even if Apple managed to sway the card providers, which is something big, mighty Google has yet to do, who is going to make all the retailers upgrade? I think many consumers don't see this as compelling enough to choose 1 retailer over another. Price and selection are much more compelling and businesses simply don't like spending the extra money these days to keep their tech up to date.

I think you are getting a bit lost in the Android argument. For all intents and purposes, there is 1 company on Android. That is Google and their wallet service.

The carriers' attempts at a payment system were a laughing stock among users and largely ignored by both consumers and companies as just that. However, Google has been pushing their singular wallet service for quite some time and has quite a few people signed up, even me. It wasn't for NFC devices but paying for some things online where Google Wallet was an allowed payment method.

So, Wallet is more than just NFC, as well, and a big venture by a company comparable in size to Apple. Having Apple on board will be like having 2 Googles, that is, 2 very large companies pushing their own payment system over NFC.

It may see more adoption among card companies for which it already has seen some with 2 large companies pushing it(you can actually use Wallet with any card including prepaid just by adding funds from the card to Wallet). But it still all comes down to the tech challenged retail industry, where it would be a hard sell for Google or Apple, considering many still run Windows XP and have payment terminals from the 90s.

kitsune

join:2001-11-26
Sacramento, CA
reply to banditws6
said by banditws6:

The U.S. is far, far behind Canada and many countries in Europe when it comes to the employment of EMV cards and point-of-sale terminals that can use them. I visited Toronto last week for the first time in some years, and was momentarily confused by the "tap to pay" terminals on vending machines and other places.

FYI, the majority of new terminals available in the US have the capability for chip and pin but the slot is covered and the functionality is turned off.


Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Selenia
There is a new Galaxy Note and Galaxy Watch today apparently. Crickets.

People are lining up for the iPhone 6 already in New York. Of those in line, there are reports of folks being paid up to $1250 to have their spot in line.
--
"If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce
What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon.


banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Daemon
said by Daemon:

Note that most cards issued with a chip in the USA right now are chip+signature cards. They don't have a PIN attached to them, though they do use the EMV circuitry. That's a stopgap until they are ready for the chip+pin rollout.

I didn't know this. Interesting. So the use of the EMV chip to read your card data is more secure than the magnetic strip, but you will still sign as usual.

I believe my new EMV credit card may be an exception. It's issued by USAA, and I was able to set a discrete PIN on each of the cards on the account. USAA then stated that the PIN could be used for ATM cash withdrawals as well as purchases at chip+pin terminals.

It'll be nice to see this stuff take off. I've had one of my credit cards cloned three times. The issuer always took care of it to my satisfaction each time, which was great, but the worst was when it happened the night before I was going to leave for a 6-month international trip and I suddenly found my primary card deactivated. Had to scramble around for a while and mail the fraud department paperwork from overseas. I have to believe EMV will cut down on a lot of this kind of fraud.

This has kinda gotten off the iPhone 6 + NFC subject, but in swinging back around to that, I will be very pleased if Apple joins the NFC bandwagon. Although it's not crucial to the uptake of EMV in the U.S., it will be nice to have the NFC-based payment option on a wider variety of devices which might help speed retailer adoption.

You're right, though, that if retailers have recently upgraded to EMV terminals that are not NFC equipped, they're not going to be in a hurry to upgrade again. Fortunately it seems like most of the retailers in my area haven't even gone to EMV terminals yet, so maybe they're being strategic about it.
--
"The counsel of fools is all the more dangerous the more of them there are." -?lafr H?skuldsson


alg
Passionately apathetic
Premium
join:2001-04-10
Houston, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to Mike
said by Mike:

People are lining up for the iPhone 6 already in New York. Of those in line, there are reports of folks being paid up to $1250 to have their spot in line.

I can't believe that standing around in line for days for an iPhone (or paying somebody to do it for you) is still a thing to be proud about.
--
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
Some of these Apple cult fanatics are the only ones I seen that are more batty than some Linux fanatics. Yes, I am a Linux fan but I am not one of the batty ones I swear $1250 plus the price of the new iphone just to have the newest iphone? Even if I was an idevice fanatic, I still have better(and more necessary) things to spend money on than $1250 extra on an iphone just to get the newest

I guess if I bite on the ip6, I can tell one of them "Yes, I got mine 2 weeks later than you, but I paid $1250 less and am not broke. Who is cool now?"


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

1 recommendation

The people on line are not "Apple cult fanatics". Nearly all the first people in line are either looking to sell their spots or trying to sell/market something. The people "in line" at the Fifth Ave store are promoting some app, for example. $1250 is a small price to pay to get your app's name in multiple newspapers, websites, and TV news stories for free.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
I suppose if that is the case. I would imagine some would pay just to have the newest for that novel thing. Look how much people pay for scalped concert tickets. That is what came to my mind when I saw that post. Not that I ever would.


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

You are also forgetting the carriers trying to create their own system instead of allowing things like Google Wallet. There are more things to it than just an Apple/Android issue.

yep... How is that coming along BTW? I use my Samsung galaxy s4 all the time at radio shack and McDonald's.. Works at CVS as well.

You will know when you come up to one that will not work it just won't do anything.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!




LG is NOT Lifes Good It's Lucky Goldstar!


haroldo

join:2004-01-16
united state
kudos:1

4 edits

2 recommendations

reply to alg
said by alg:

said by Mike:

People are lining up for the iPhone 6 already in New York. Of those in line, there are reports of folks being paid up to $1250 to have their spot in line.

I can't believe that standing around in line for days for an iPhone (or paying somebody to do it for you) is still a thing to be proud about.

Those who pay, have ulterior motives.
For example, stock analysts will hire people to do a tear down and learn how are the component parts manufacturers, etc. With pricing data, they can quickly assess Apple's profit margin on the device based on their findings. Companies' share price will rise or fall based on expected profit margin.
Further, researchers have to do a sample, so they'll need many devices from all across the country (not just one device) to figure out if Apple has single or multiple sources for the various components.
Typically, within a day or two of launch, the share price of the component manufacturers can jump ten percent or more. Similarly, some stocks will fall as investors realize Brand X is no longer the sole provider for a certain component.
It is not uncommon for investors, such as hedge funds, to wager tens of millions based upon their findings. Do the math, these are extraordinary profit opportunities. The market value swings of the shares of the manufacturers, in aggregate, can easily surge into the billions....with that much "cheddar" (just watched a few episodes of Breaking Bad) on the line, brilliant investors are happy to spend a few thousand dollars doing research.
Even geek web sites do quick tear downs, news of which generates a lot of traffic (and ad revenue) to their web sites. Do you think they wait a few weeks to get theirs in the mail?
I guarantee you the buyer shelling out thousands for a place in line is not an eccentric who just can't wait.

The "line" is now a cottage industry gamed by very smart players...the kids on line getting paid to wear tee-shirts or provide other forms of advertising...the buyers paying the kids are gaining the advantage of quick access to information...and Apple getting tens of millions of dollars in free advertising.
Everyone wins!


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
reply to alg
It's not anymore. It's fairly sad at this point.


novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
reply to Mike
Damn wish i lived in new york id get in line just to sell my spot as i wouldn't take a apple if you paid me to.

Just goes to show people must have that status symbol device. Wonder when the gold plated diamond encrusted iphones 6s will hit the market......


Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
said by novaflare:

Wonder when the gold plated diamond encrusted iphones 6s will hit the market......

Samsung has you covered there:
»www.pocket-lint.com/news/130738-···he-house
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
reply to novaflare
That will be in the iphone 9SCD limited edition(D for diamonds). You will need the limited edition as the regular will be silver. Make sure you get in line and don't get trampled