dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
3004

Connie
@98.236.203.x

Connie

Anon

[Green Tech] What is a Sensible R-value for Garage Door ?

I have an integral unheated garage on the side/basement of my house. The garage is mostly below grade on the front and back of the house. The area of the garage exposed above grade and on the side where the garage doors are is cinderblock with a brick face. Cinderblock with brick has a low R-value - maybe at most 4.

The garage is unheated and there is no insulation between the garage and the bedrooms above which are always cold.

Is it beneficial to get a garage door with a high R-value?
Or is it a waste of money because the exposed areas of the garage are a lower R value.
gbwalsh
join:2010-07-25
Burlington, ON

gbwalsh

Member

I would think putting insulation between the garage and the rooms above will gain the most. A insulated door with un-insulated walls won't make much difference.

hitachi369
Embrace Your Rights
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Cincinnati, OH
(Software) pfSense
Switches Trash Bin
Ubiquiti UniFi AP

hitachi369 to Connie

Premium Member

to Connie
It will make a slight difference; an important fact is the garage door is only loosely sealed at best.

I have noticed when I replaced my double wide door from a wood door to a steel insolated door my garage stays warmer during the winter. It might be that it has a tighter fit to the wall of my house, better seals, or better insulation, but there has been a mark able improvement in the temperature of my unheated garage during the winter months. But I park in my garage, and the thermal mass of my car can be an significant heat source, if your garage is not used for cars, you likely won’t see any gain at all.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

1 edit

LittleBill to Connie

Member

to Connie
you should insulation between the garage ceiling and the floor of the rooms, if you don't have it

doors do make a difference but not nearly the difference the above comment makes

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor to gbwalsh

Member

to gbwalsh
said by gbwalsh:

I would think putting insulation between the garage and the rooms above will gain the most. A insulated door with un-insulated walls won't make much difference.

+1 .

An insulated door can help *somewhat*, but you also need to ensure that it's reasonably well sealed against air leaks, which may be a bit challenging.

BTW, where do you live?

RipTides
join:2002-05-25
Dallas, GA

RipTides to Connie

Member

to Connie
My parents home is a ranch over basement/dbl garage. The upstairs portion of the home over the garage was improved by not only putting insulation in the floor between the living/garage space, but later upgrading to insulated doors with the weatherstrip trim, and insulating the framed exterior portion of the basement walls.

It went from being controlled by the elements to being much more stable while making a marked improvement to the upstairs retaining heat/cool when all was done.
66860111 (banned)
join:2014-04-28

66860111 (banned) to Connie

Member

to Connie
Since you have living area above the garage you need to insulate the area between the garage and bedrooms. Air sealing is one of the biggest problems for a FROG (finished room over garage). Insulating the garage door to R-4, the typical value, might help a little but not enough to notice if the other stuff isn't done too. I'm surprised it's not insulated though since that's code. Did someone turn the area above the garage into bedrooms illegally or was the work done a long time ago?

stevek1949
We're not in Kansas anymore
Premium Member
join:2002-11-13
Virginia Beach, VA

stevek1949 to Connie

Premium Member

to Connie
Remember, you may be subject to fire codes as to what type of insulation that you use between the garage and the house. Covering the insulation with drywall may also be needed if not using a foam type to seal it.

I am not a contractor, but some digging may be helpful.
66860111 (banned)
join:2014-04-28

66860111 (banned)

Member

said by stevek1949:

Remember, you may be subject to fire codes as to what type of insulation that you use between the garage and the house. Covering the insulation with drywall may also be needed if not using a foam type to seal it.

I am not a contractor, but some digging may be helpful.

There should be a firewall in place right now between the garage and bedrooms unless the work was done a very very long time ago or it was done illegally.

stevek1949
We're not in Kansas anymore
Premium Member
join:2002-11-13
Virginia Beach, VA

stevek1949

Premium Member

said by 66860111:

There should be a firewall in place right now between the garage and bedrooms unless the work was done a very very long time ago or it was done illegally.

I agree that there SHOULD be, but as the OP stated, there is no insulation between the garage and the bedrooms above. What is showing between the rafters underneath? Plywood? It has not been stated. I am sure that the age of the house has a bearing on the plans.

If the OP needs a permit, I am sure that this will come into play.

OldCableGuy3
@207.191.193.x

OldCableGuy3 to aurgathor

Anon

to aurgathor
IP address comes back to Pennsylvania

Connie
@98.236.203.x

Connie to stevek1949

Anon

to stevek1949
Thanks everyone for all the great comments.

I'm in Pennsylvania. We had some very cold spells below zero last winter.
My house is 60+ years old.
There is a ceiling in the garage, but the insulation is the same as the rest of the house walls - just a piece of paper in there. So essentially no insulation.

A main HVAC shaft (maybe 1 ft. square or more) runs through the garage going to the bedrooms above. There are no output vents in the garage. My garage is enormous. Maybe 25' deep by 24' wide. The HVAC shaft comes out of the basement and runs about 12 feet to the center support beam, then takes a 90 degree turn and follows the support wall to the other side of the garage 24'. That feeds small offshoots in the ceiling to the heat vents above.

The other weird thing is that the main water input to the house comes in the middle of the front garage wall. There may be 35 ft. of water pipe running around the ceiling before it goes into the main basement where there are heating vents. If the garage door is left open on a cold winter day, the pipe freezes.

I'm a little concerned if I prevent too much heat from getting to the garage, I'll have pipe freezing problems. Why they didn't bring the water into the heated area of the basement I have no clue.

There is just a regular door (not exterior door) between the garage and basement area. I'm beginning to wonder if the design of this house was to have a "heated" garage.

Thanks to each and every one of you that have commented. I really appreciate all the comments and better understanding. It has made me realize that maybe I'm not even asking the right questions.

Connie

stevek1949
We're not in Kansas anymore
Premium Member
join:2002-11-13
Virginia Beach, VA

stevek1949

Premium Member

You may have a situation where the heat supply is not sufficient to heat the rooms above. If there is no heat return in the garage (and there should NOT be) you would not be pulling air from there to circulate. If you are going to insulate the floors, I would suggest Roxsul for it's fire properties. If the water main is under the insulation, it would provide some protection. Maybe some foam pipe wrap on exposed areas would also help.

»www.roxul.com/products/r ··· 'n'sound
TheSMJ
join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI

TheSMJ to Connie

Member

to Connie
Your garage sounds an awful lot like mine. You wouldn't happen to have a split-level home, would you?

In any case, what made the biggest difference for me in terms of garage insulation was getting fiberglass insulation injected into the garage's ceiling and replacing the 1" thick cotton insulation with 3" fiberglass batts in the family room next to the garage.

FWIW, I would have had the shared family room/garage wall injected with insulation as well if I wasn't already ripping out the wood paneling in the FR and replacing it with drywall. Getting the garage ceiling insulated only cost a tad over $500 for the high-end stuff, and was totally worth the cost given that the hardwood floor on the bedroom above would be *freezing* in the winter.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor to Connie

Member

to Connie
said by Connie :

The other weird thing is that the main water input to the house comes in the middle of the front garage wall. There may be 35 ft. of water pipe running around the ceiling before it goes into the main basement where there are heating vents. If the garage door is left open on a cold winter day, the pipe freezes.

I'm a little concerned if I prevent too much heat from getting to the garage, I'll have pipe freezing problems.

Just insulate the pipe and possibly even put a pipe heater under the insulation.

RipTides
join:2002-05-25
Dallas, GA

RipTides to stevek1949

Member

to stevek1949
said by stevek1949:

you may be subject to fire codes as to what type of insulation that you use between the garage and the house.

Here in GA most houses built 25+ years ago had no fire code for residential. Houses built 10+ years ago, finally got a sprinkler code, so above where cars would be parked a single sprinkler unit must be present for each space.

The only recent change to that, as my ex-FIL recently built his house, another ranch style over garage/basement, only had the sprinkler requirement upgraded to where he needed them to cover each area (zone) of the basement. Otherwise it's just use pink unfaced batting insulation between the spaces.

Asiabound
Ex-Pat
Premium Member
join:2002-12-21
Mabinay

Asiabound to Connie

Premium Member

to Connie
said by Connie :

A main HVAC shaft (maybe 1 ft. square or more) runs through the garage going to the bedrooms above. There are no output vents in the garage. My garage is enormous. Maybe 25' deep by 24' wide. The HVAC shaft comes out of the basement and runs about 12 feet to the center support beam, then takes a 90 degree turn and follows the support wall to the other side of the garage 24'. That feeds small offshoots in the ceiling to the heat vents above.

Since you do have a ceiling, yes, insulate it as best you can, as most people have said.

Now then, this outbuilding behind my house is (forced air) heated. When we considered this home over four years ago, the first thing I thought about when I saw the furnace upstairs in the non-insulated attic, was insulating every vent shaft exposed to the same bitter cold we're all sharing east of the Rockies. Now that we've learned the length of your vent shaft through your garage, I strongly suggest wrapping it very well.

I'm sorry, I have no frame of reference as to the difference this made, because I told my wife (after we bought this place) we should not heat "her" building until I take care of this. I simply had had this gut feeling deep inside me that both the intake shaft and vent shafts should be insulated. The heated air passing through your very long shaft run through your garage is most certainly chilled if they are not insulated.





I apologize for the second photo - all phones take questionable shots in low-light conditions. It didn't help my leaving the door open, either!
Good luck

AMDUSER
Premium Member
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
ARRIS CM8200
ARRIS SB6183

AMDUSER to Connie

Premium Member

to Connie
said by Connie :

There is a ceiling in the garage, but the insulation is the same as the rest of the house walls - just a piece of paper in there. So essentially no insulation.
.."

I would suggest calling a couple insulation contractors to get quotes for blow in insulation for the rest of the house.
said by Connie :

There is just a regular door (not exterior door) between the garage and basement area. "..

That is not recommended... get an exterior door with a door closer put in between the house and the garage. Car exhaust and carbon monoxide can get into your house if you start your car in the garage.