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micky
join:2011-09-08
Toronto, ON

micky

Member

[Homephone] How do I convince Bell to install a new line to my house?

I moved into my house 3 years ago and the internet (and sometimes homephone line) have been problematic. I have replaced most of the internal phone wiring and at this point I am quite convinced that the wiring from the pole to my house needs to be replaced. Its very old and there isn't a proper dmarc (just a really old black ceramic mount point with two bolts sticking out of it.

I would really like a new line from the pole to a proper NID on the outside wall of my house. How do I convince Bell this needs to be done?

joeblow3
join:2000-12-27
h0h0h0

joeblow3

Member

Drop a branch on it....lol

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_ to micky

Premium Member

to micky
Is there anything wrong with the exisitng drop wire or demarc? Do you have an intermittent or ongoing issue?

If none of the above than neither the drop or the demarc need to be replaced.
lowping
join:2013-08-04

lowping to micky

Member

to micky
I don't have a proper NID and it's a very old line, but I get 50/10 stable.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by lowping:

I don't have a proper NID and it's a very old line, but I get 50/10 stable.

Unless there is an isuse with the drop there's no need to change it.

As for the demarc same thing applies, although when/if the drop gets replaced in the future than a new NID should be installed.

The drop that's currently in place what colour are is the insulation on the wiring?
1. 2 pair; white, blue, red and orange
2. 2 pair; white, white-blue, orange and white-orange
3. 1 pair; no colour just insulated copper wire
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805 to micky

Member

to micky
Also most home phone issues are causes by a splice down the line, and not the service drop to the house. Although static is a common issue from drops...
lowping
join:2013-08-04

lowping to JC_

Member

to JC_
said by JC_:

said by lowping:

I don't have a proper NID and it's a very old line, but I get 50/10 stable.

Unless there is an isuse with the drop there's no need to change it.

As for the demarc same thing applies, although when/if the drop gets replaced in the future than a new NID should be installed.

The drop that's currently in place what colour are is the insulation on the wiring?
1. 2 pair; white, blue, red and orange
2. 2 pair; white, white-blue, orange and white-orange
3. 1 pair; no colour just insulated copper wire

#3, thick coper wires from the pole.

coaxguy
join:2009-07-29

coaxguy

Member

Well you're in luck. That's either a cotton drop or insulated drop, both of which are not spec for VDSL internet. 50/10 should never have been installed without changing the drop.

Tell bell you want your non spec drop changed or you will cancel the services.
lowping
join:2013-08-04

lowping

Member

said by coaxguy:

Well you're in luck. That's either a cotton drop or insulated drop, both of which are not spec for VDSL internet. 50/10 should never have been installed without changing the drop.

Tell bell you want your non spec drop changed or you will cancel the services.

Why would I do that ? My attainable speed are 125mbps up and 30 down on a 7330, and it's stable.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by lowping:

said by coaxguy:

Well you're in luck. That's either a cotton drop or insulated drop, both of which are not spec for VDSL internet. 50/10 should never have been installed without changing the drop.

Tell bell you want your non spec drop changed or you will cancel the services.

Why would I do that ? My attainable speed are 125mbps up and 30 down on a 7330, and it's stable.

It should've been changed when the service was installed but honestly unless the drop tests bad, only about 30% of the ones that I've tested on installs and repairs needed to be changed, they will generally be left in place and used for the service that you're getting; unless it's Fibe TV, than we change them everytime.

As for the demarc, a NID should've been installed though.
lowping
join:2013-08-04

lowping

Member

said by JC_:

said by lowping:

said by coaxguy:

Well you're in luck. That's either a cotton drop or insulated drop, both of which are not spec for VDSL internet. 50/10 should never have been installed without changing the drop.

Tell bell you want your non spec drop changed or you will cancel the services.

Why would I do that ? My attainable speed are 125mbps up and 30 down on a 7330, and it's stable.

It should've been changed when the service was installed but honestly unless the drop tests bad, only about 30% of the ones that I've tested on installs and repairs needed to be changed, they will generally be left in place and used for the service that you're getting; unless it's Fibe TV, than we change them everytime.

As for the demarc, a NID should've been installed though.

Really ? I'm guessing because new drops are twisted pairs ?

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by lowping:

Really ? I'm guessing because new drops are twisted pairs ?

Yea they're 24 gauge twisted pair.
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805

Member

They are hardly twisted, cat3 at most. Some US providers are using cat5e twisted drops

coaxguy
join:2009-07-29

coaxguy to micky

Member

to micky
Not near cat 3 at all, bell arial wire is 22awg. It's on the spec sheet.
coaxguy

coaxguy to lowping

Member

to lowping
said by lowping:

said by coaxguy:

Well you're in luck. That's either a cotton drop or insulated drop, both of which are not spec for VDSL internet. 50/10 should never have been installed without changing the drop.

Tell bell you want your non spec drop changed or you will cancel the services.

Why would I do that ? My attainable speed are 125mbps up and 30 down on a 7330, and it's stable.

Because your drop needs to replaced regardless. It's a major install and service fail if the tech did not change it at install time.
lowping
join:2013-08-04

lowping

Member

said by coaxguy:

said by lowping:

said by coaxguy:

Well you're in luck. That's either a cotton drop or insulated drop, both of which are not spec for VDSL internet. 50/10 should never have been installed without changing the drop.

Tell bell you want your non spec drop changed or you will cancel the services.

Why would I do that ? My attainable speed are 125mbps up and 30 down on a 7330, and it's stable.

Because your drop needs to replaced regardless. It's a major install and service fail if the tech did not change it at install time.

Last tech told me I was lucky I had these old drops cause the wire gauge is so small. I guess I'll wait to see for FibeTV and ask then, Bell residential DSL Tech are not all competent. One of them managed to disconnect every wire at the protector leaving the triplex out of service, so I'm kind of scared. And he blamed our phone!
btech805
join:2013-08-01
Canada

btech805 to coaxguy

Member

to coaxguy
said by coaxguy:

Not near cat 3 at all, bell arial wire is 22awg. It's on the spec sheet.

I was referring to the amount of twist in the drop itself and comparing it to the twisted pairs of a cat 3 cable (nearly non-existent). I should have been more clear I suppose

coaxguy
join:2009-07-29

coaxguy

Member

said by btech805:

said by coaxguy:

Not near cat 3 at all, bell arial wire is 22awg. It's on the spec sheet.

I was referring to the amount of twist in the drop itself and comparing it to the twisted pairs of a cat 3 cable (nearly non-existent). I should have been more clear I suppose

Ah you meant the twist. That makes total sense, sorry bout that. I 100% agree with that.
coaxguy

coaxguy to lowping

Member

to lowping
said by lowping:

Last tech told me I was lucky I had these old drops cause the wire gauge is so small. I guess I'll wait to see for FibeTV and ask then, Bell residential DSL Tech are not all competent. One of them managed to disconnect every wire at the protector leaving the triplex out of service, so I'm kind of scared. And he blamed our phone!

I see your concern, but the minutely higher gauge of wire is moot (in my opinion) compared to the attenuation loss protected by the twist in newer drops. It's more of a precaution to prevent attenuation and power influence into the drop more than anything.

Just remember, the VDSL signal travels through much thinner copper from the trunk, opi, terminal regardless (depending on your slam type as well, but still about 70% of this applies). The slightly thicker awg of the drop at the point from the pole to your house isn't doing anything really.
donkey77
join:2008-04-08
Montreal, QC

1 edit

donkey77 to micky

Member

to micky
Do you have a telephone account with bell? With anyone? If so, call 611 and tell them you have bad static on the line at times. They are required to roll a truck within 24 hours for a voice line issue. When the tech shows up, demand he change the drop. Problem solved.

Oh and you don't have a proper demarc with a test jack so bell can't charge you for it.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan to micky

Member

to micky
Click for full size
Old demark (my responsibility to remove)
Click for full size
New demark
Click for full size
Line on the ground (if it isn't buried soon, will have to raise above side driveway for snowplowing)
Click for full size
My service pole (you can see the old wires that have been replaced so far)
said by micky:

I would really like a new line from the pole to a proper NID on the outside wall of my house. How do I convince Bell this needs to be done?

My Bell land-line from pole to house is in process right now for replacement similar to what you are requesting.... I have a hum on my line, and static... and after 5 visits (some of which the tech didn't even show to perform work), the head cabling guy came out with an assistant, and ran tests from the pole to the demark inside the house.

We have an area problem as a whole, but reportedly they are working on it (but who knows when things will be upgraded).

The new line didn't improve things much, but their tests showed some issues with the line from the pole to the home.

The tech and the head cabling guy were very professional, and knowledgeable of the challenges of the area (I have no DSL/Cable internet here due to distance from CO). They have acknowledged this is an ongoing network issue.

I will also add, on no visit has anybody given me hardship whatsoever because I am with Teksavvy, which actually makes me want to deal with Bell again. I will likely switch over my landlines to Bell if results of my site survey for a 20/20 Dedicated business connection are not favourable.

The techs have strung a temporary line from the pole to the house along the ground, and a contractor will be out to bury a permanent line in the coming weeks (hopefully soon, frost is coming!).

They also installed a new demark on the outside, and left the demark on the inside. I HATED having the demark on the inside because I had to be present for all the servicing.

I will eventually clean up the wiring from the new demark, and remove the one inside.

I even watched as they properly grounded everything, and it looks neat and tidy to me...... although the hum/static is still there especially on rainy days due to network issues.

The techs also offered to improve my line from the pole, and will upgrade to 6 copper pair, which I accepted for any future uses (we have had up to 3 landline phones here using 3 pairs).

If you end up getting new copper, you could try and request 6 pair as well as it doesn't hurt to have extra pairs.

The pictures are what it looks like today (and for the past 10 days).

Ryan