dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
1936
simiglen
join:2001-04-30
Simi Valley, CA

1 edit

simiglen

Member

Different prices for an alignment?

I went in to get my wife's 12 prius an alignment. They quoted me 425 for a lifetime. I questioned it when I told them my 06 accord lifetime only cost me 150. He said the Toyota was a different more expensive method of aligning. When questioned the price he quickly dropped to 350. Is there a different method of aligning a car based upon manufacturer or model or was this shop full of $&@@.

I went with a basic 79 alignment.
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned)

Member

Sounds shady. I would have told them I have to come back next week, and then found a different shop.

A recent thread with information:
»2008 BMW 750LI: Alignment at shop or BMW dealer?
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

fixrman to simiglen

Premium Member

to simiglen
Why would you want to get lifetime alignment? What happens if you vehicle gets totaled next month while you are sleeping snug in your bed.

You get an alignment after you've hit a pothole perhaps (definitely if it destroys a tire, bends a rim), if you or someone else notices a tire wear issue, after the first tire replacement to protect that investment, after a steering or suspension component replacement or if you notice that the vehicle doesn't seem to be tracking straight any more - which could be due to any of the above other than tire replacement.

Why would you pay up front for something that may not ever happen again in the future? You'd be giving that shop money up front for service you might never get. He could go out of business next week.

A $79.00 alignment would have been what I would have gotten. But maybe not there. From my perspective, sounds a bit dodgy.

No, you pay for an alignment as you get it, not before. If a set of tires comes with, sure (I bet not, unless you pay lots extra for tires) but don't pay extra for it.
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

4 edits

rody_44

Premium Member

I know people that get lifetime alignment. My fatherinlaw swore by them. But than he insisted on having it aligned every 6 months even if nothing was changed. Even at 350 its kind of steep. Most places sell lifetime for the price of three alignments. I dont see why Toyota would be more expensive than any other car. But with toyota all alignments are done via aftermarket shims. The only thing adjustable without aftermarket shims is toe. Toyota will tell you its self adjusting. Not sure how that works. I do know when my wifes car got hit (toyota) it took 4 alignments before the car was right. They didnt do adjustments. They replaced parts to get it to align. After 4 times on the machine they finally got a readout that was acceptable. They ended up replacing control arms, strut, and wheel bearing in the hub assembly. All seperate in a attempt to get the alignment correct. After replacing them the car was within specs. Insurance companies require body shops to supply a 4 wheel alignment readout before the cars released.

Long story short with a toyota i have found usually unless something is bad it should be good. What i do is when i have it inspected i ask them to put it on the machine and check it for a reduced price. No adjustments and just a check cost me 20 dollars. Like i said the only time it has ever been out is when it was wrecked in a accident. Pretty sure self aligning is only applicable 2010 and up.

Self aligning doesnt mean anything actually aligns itself. Just means when everything is good and put together it will always be the same. No multiple shims and no oblong holes to actually change the adjustment
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

fixrman

Premium Member

said by rody_44:

with a toyota i have found usually unless something is bad it should be good.

Heheh. I have found that with every car I ever worked on. But then again, if it was good, why was I working on it? ;-P

Not sure what you mean by "self adjusting". Toe "self adjusts'' per se but only at the steering wheel, really. Bang a curb hard and the toe may be off on the right side. The car might actually track straight but the steering wheel is off center. The alignment is off and needs to have bent components replaced/alignment performed.
said by rody_44:

But with toyota all alignments are done via aftermarket shims.

Well, that would be for camber. Caster is not adjustable on many cars. Rear toe may be shims, camber as well.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

1 edit

Anonymous_ to simiglen

Premium Member

to simiglen
before you get a alignment I'd check the air in the tires.
my car was pulling to the right and it turned out to be a 4 PSI difference on the right wheel
the PSI was in spec so the TPM did not detect it as a "problem" .
\
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

4 edits

rody_44 to fixrman

Premium Member

to fixrman
Toyota considers it self adjusting, Like i said there is no self adjusting at all. The car is just engineered with no adjustments (no shims, nothing). The only thing that is adjustable is toe and only on the front. Only applicable after 2010 or so. If castor or camber is off on either front or back or rear toe something is either bent or bad. When my wifes car got hit it had unibody damage. Unibody was repaired to factory specs and than it took 4 tries at replacing parts till it had a acceptable readout for the insurance company. If memory serves me correct at the end of the day they replaced both control arms a strut and than the front bearing which was inside the hub assembly. After the front bearing was replaced is when it actually passed. Kind of puzzling how the bearing is what actually cured it tho i will admit. I have had it checked twice since and it remains in spec. Hack shops may try different things tho with aftermarket stuff to make adjustments.

In other words any alignment on a toyota is a rip off. The only thing they are doing at the most is adjusting the front toe in. Just negotiate a check which most shops will do cheaper than a full alignment.

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77 to simiglen

Premium Member

to simiglen
Regarding the debate of "lifetime" vs paying for each alignment. My local independent shop charges roughly $75 for a standard front end alignment. At $425 that's almost 6 alignments. You'd have to ask yourself how many alignments you think you'll need over the time you own the car. For me, barring any severe impacts with potholes or something, I generally only have an alignment done when I install new tires. It would take me a long time to recover my cost.

Now at $150, that's certainly something to consider. Though whenever I see a cheap package price I think they are just trying to get me in the door so they can then tell me all the the extra things my car needs. There is a dealership here that does $9.99 oil changes. They are losing money at that price. But once you are in there they'll tell you that your car needs this or that and it will cost this much extra, blah blah blah. A lot of people go in for the $10 oil change and leave there with the wallet a few hundred bucks lighter. Legitimate service and repairs they find? Maybe. Maybe not.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

2 recommendations

Cho Baka to rody_44

MVM

to rody_44
said by rody_44:

In other words any alignment on a toyota is a rip off. The only thing they are doing at the most is adjusting the front toe in. Just negotiate a check which most shops will do cheaper than a full alignment.

This is not correct. Put your overly-broad brush away.

First of all, there are different Toyotas, with different suspensions. All do not take the same adjustments or have the same design.

Camber is adjustable on most FWD Toyotas at the bolts where the struts attach to the knuckles. Small amounts of correction can often be made with the factory bolts. Various size bolts are available to enable greater amounts of correction.

Where I was, we never charged any extra labor for camber adjustments.
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

1 edit

rody_44

Premium Member

The op has a Prius. Im aware of the aftermarket offset bolts and such. But go to this link and read what the experts say. Toyota has no rear adjustment at all. Not in the ops car and the offset bolts are not available at all as a OEM product. The offset bolts are used in the rear. And some use shims in the rear. Post 2010 isnt a toyota authorized way of aligning it. If everything is right it shouldnt be needed post 2010. »www.justanswer.com/toyot ··· ire.html

Lurch77
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77

Premium Member

You mean the expert that's trying to get attention for his product? You may or may not be right in this debate, but it was hard to take that Q&A session seriously with the perceived bias.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

1 recommendation

Cho Baka to rody_44

MVM

to rody_44
The bolts are available as Toyota supplied service parts.
PNC:
43212D
43211K
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

4 edits

rody_44

Premium Member

»www.autocarepro.com/alig ··· a-camry/ This one involves the camry from 2007 to 2011 and explain how its basically designed for no adjustments needed. The camry was one of the first with the fronts like that. This one isnt selling anything. In theory you should be able to totally disassemble your front and reassemble and it should be the exact same alignment. Nothing has any room for adjustments. The struts mounted to the top of the spindle nice tight round holes and the control arm is mounted to the bottom with no adjustment there either.
rody_44

1 edit

rody_44 to Cho Baka

Premium Member

to Cho Baka
They are the standard bolts toyota uses. Nothing offset about them. Bottom line is there is no alignment on toyotas any more. If someone is telling you they are aligning it the most they are doing is setting toe on the front. They could possible change the way the rear is tracking via offset bolts. But that should never be needed and isnt a factory approved method.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

1 recommendation

Cho Baka

MVM

It is in the Toyota Repair Manual and Parts Catalog.

You better call them up and let them know.
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

1 edit

rody_44

Premium Member

Well of course its there. They have to list bolts. Its not offset tho. Alltho im coming up with the 43212d being a rav4 steering knuckle. Under no conditions do i assume SUVs to have the same suspension. Under any case of course they are going to have parts numbers for bolts. Its offset bolts i said you wont find OEM.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

1 recommendation

Cho Baka

MVM

Google and random links are nice, but you are still wrong.

Here are the Toyota part numbers for the bolts used to adjust camber at the knuckle to strut connection:

43211K BOLT (FOR STEERING KNUCKLE RH)
90105-17016 OD=15.9, TYPE A:REFER ILLUST. 1
90105-17017 OD=15, TYPE B:REFER ILLUST. 1
90105-17018 OD=14, TYPE C:REFER ILLUST. 1
90105-17019 OD=17, TYPE D:REFER ILLUST. 2

Even with all standard parts, disassembly and reassembly can still result in variances that require adjustment.

By the way, why all the edits?
rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA

1 edit

rody_44

Premium Member

Better argument for sure. Now to figure out if its actually a genuine toyota parts number? I was wrong. Does seem to be 4 different bolts. Still stick with there should be no need to have any adjustment done with toyotas design. Toyota only recommends alignment if you are having tire wear issues or pulling issues. No shims and no loosen and tighten in the design at all. If its off there is something mechanically wrong with the car.
fixrman
From a broken heart to a hole in the sky
Premium Member
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

fixrman

Premium Member

Come on, man. Hang it up. Your argument is one of semantics and a weak one at that.

If a technician is making any kind of adjustment to the steering geometry with or without aid of special tools, measuring devices or a computerized machine, it is called an alignment.

I don't give two flying flips if Toyota or Cho Baka's grandmom makes shims, eccentric bolts or offset strut plates - the alignment is still adjustable and not self adjusting. Self adjusting means the car does it itself. If the only adjustment provided by the factory is a toe adjustment, the vehicle is able to be aligned.