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antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

Premium Member

Yahoo slams new 'digital will' law, says users have privacy when they die

»www.networkworld.com/art ··· die.html

"What should happen to your personal digital communications—emails, chats, photos and the like—after you die? Should they be treated like physical letters for the purposes of a will?

Data integration is often underestimated and poorly implemented, taking time and resources.

Yahoo doesn’t think so. The company is criticizing new legislation giving executors charged with carrying out the instructions in a person’s will broad access to their online accounts. The legislation aims to tackle the sensitive question of what to do when someone’s online accounts on sites like Facebook, Google or Yahoo outlive them...."

What do you guys think?

dandelion
MVM
join:2003-04-29
Germantown, TN

1 edit

dandelion

MVM

I would rather an executor be able to delete my account then yahoo keep it forever which is what I am gathering is the wish... and how is being on Yahoo/facebook etc... private anyway?

edit.. if deleted shown a death certificate however by the executor, that is fine also.

I have been executor to three relatives and expect my children to be mine. Hopefully all facebook and the like will be closed though I didn't have to deal with that in my case with older relatives that hadn't heard of facebook.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

If I had an account with Yahoo, I would expect that Yahoo, upon receiving a copy of my death certificate would then delete my account and all therein. This is what Yahoo does presently and is stated in their very lengthy TOS. Most likely the executor would be the one who would present Yahoo with a copy of the death certificate. That executor has no need to access the account and should NOT be allowed access to the account.

I say Bravo to Yahoo for standing up for privacy.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

2 recommendations

dave

Premium Member

Let's see: you're willing to give someone fiduciary authority over your estate, but it's a "breach of privacy" if they can see your Yahoo account? That seems pretty twisted to me.

Of course, under the proposed Uniform Fiduciary Access legislation, if you really did not want your executor to have access to your Yahoo account, you could simply say so in the will that appoints your executor.
quote:
UFADAA defers to an account holder's privacy choices as expressed in a document (such as a will or trust), or online by an affirmative act separate from the general terms-of-service agreement. Therefore, an account holder's desire to keep certain assets private will be honored under UFADAA.
Speaking for myself, when I appoint an executor power over my estate, I mean entire. They need to access and disburse my assets under the terms of my will. No need to put barriers in their way.
19579823 (banned)
An Awesome Dude
join:2003-08-04

19579823 (banned) to antdude

Member

to antdude

quote:
What do you guys think?
I think yahoo has become spying garbage and Im glad I dont use thier site!!!!!!!
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20 to dave

Premium Member

to dave

Re: Yahoo slams new 'digital will' law, says users have privacy when they die

How in the world is an account at Yahoo (or any site) an "asset" to be "disbursed"? It's a fucking web site where someone posted.. probably under a handle...not their real name! Get real! The will's executor should have zero interest in any website where the deceased posted. The posts are owned by the website so where is this supposed "asset" that is so precious that you don't think the poster should have any privacy regarding what is done with their account? How would the executor even identify where the deceased posted since, if they had even a slight modicum of sense, they would have posted with a false identity? Even on Facebook one can violate the TOS and post fake identity. Yahoo is not Facebook and any sensible person will obscure their identity there.

There is no "willingness" involved. Everyone needs a will.
Davek
join:2014-07-17

Davek to antdude

Member

to antdude
quote:
What do you guys think?
I think "delete" is functionally equivalent to not opening the account and viewing the data yourself. The data is still on the server, it's just that you don't see it any more.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

1 recommendation

dave to Mele20

Premium Member

to Mele20
Regardless of the yahoos at Yahoo, the actual issue is the law in general. I want my executors to be able to do what they need to do, without artificial barriers. Since I think it's impractical for the law to spell out the difference between a web site they need to access, and a web site they don't need to access, I think I prefer 'all' to 'none' as a legal option.

I don't expect my executors to actually have any interest in my non-financial accounts, any more than I expect them to be particularly interested in my underwear drawer, to which they will also have access. My executors are essentially in charge of everything I formerly owned.

And don't fucking swear at me.

Link Logger
MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB

1 recommendation

Link Logger

MVM

said by dave:

My executors are essentially in charge of everything I formerly owned

Interesting but do you own say this post or your account here or on Yahoo? Is there an agreement of ownership in place, I don't think there is, but you can't complain as you agreed to the usage conditions?

I see huge problem with this not just from a privacy perspective but also an operational issue. So now Yahoo or whoever would have to have a team of support folks validating death certificates and executor rights etc and deleting accounts.

Its a easy problem to fix without Yahoo etc being involved. My accounts, passwords etc are kept in a password manager and the password for that is kept in a safety deposit book with instructions to delete where ever and or do whatever I want done in the case of my demise, problem solved so to me this is pretty much a 'dead' issue.

Blake
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

Well, as long as letting someone else access your account doesn't violate the all-supreme Terms Of Service that you agreed to.

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium Member
join:2004-02-14
EC/SETX SWLA

atuarre to antdude

Premium Member

to antdude
I think what Yahoo is doing should be the gold standard. If an organization is presented with your death certificate they should delete your account, permanently. The data should be unrecoverable.

There is a contact on my Facebook. Her boyfriend died five years ago and he was foolish enough to give her access to his Facebook account and almost on a daily basis she posts from his account talking about how she misses him and some people just get ridiculous. Mourn them and then move on.

Now I would be okay with the loved ones requesting a copy of any personal pictures that were taken, for memories, or what ever you like. But in that case, they just take all the pictures and e-mail them or set up a link for a few days where the family can download them, no matter what the pics are and then delete the account, permanently and forever.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned) to dave

Member

to dave
Hmm and if it does then what would yahoo etc do..... My guess delete your account for violating their tos. Ither way its deleted as you wanted...

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to antdude

Premium Member

to antdude
About getting that death certificate in the name of 'EUS'...

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

1 recommendation

Blackbird to Mele20

Premium Member

to Mele20
said by Mele20:

How in the world is an account at Yahoo (or any site) an "asset" to be "disbursed"? It's a ****ing web site where someone posted.. probably under a handle...not their real name! Get real! The will's executor should have zero interest in any website where the deceased posted. ... How would the executor even identify where the deceased posted since, if they had even a slight modicum of sense, they would have posted with a false identity? Even on Facebook one can violate the TOS and post fake identity. Yahoo is not Facebook and any sensible person will obscure their identity there.

There is no "willingness" involved. Everyone needs a will.

I don't agree. Having been an executor multiple times, I've found that in a number of cases, tracking down the deceased's distant (but only living) relatives, some of their assets, or possible outstanding debts required every fragment of information that I could assemble by going through their personal papers and letters. If that person corresponded with relatives or transacted anything at all via an online eMail account, that information could be vital to an executor reconstructing certain important information. This is especially acute if the person's eMail account has been used for bill receipts and account statements - a consequence of going "paperless".

jmorlan
Hmm... That's funny.
MVM
join:2001-02-05
Pacifica, CA
ARRIS BGW210-700
Obihai OBi200

2 recommendations

jmorlan to antdude

MVM

to antdude
I think an executor of an estate needs access to all online accounts, financial or otherwise. E.g. a Yahoo account may be classified as a social account, but it may be linked to sigfig which is an online financial services company. The sigfig account is linked and requires a Yahoo login in for access if the person has so arranged. Likewise I'm sure there are other online financial services attached to Google and even Facebook user accounts.

I believe these accounts should be deleted after a person dies only on instructions from the administrator or executor of the estate.

Here at DSLReports, the forums have many helpful messages posted by deceased members. I don't think it's reasonable to expect this board to remove all such posts, especially when they may be part of a useful thread. In this case I think of the board as the publisher. Not different from the publisher of a book.

Here's a fun fact. Your credit report and credit rating are never deleted after you die unless the administrator or executor goes to the trouble of physically mailing a death certificate to each of the three credit rating agencies.

hortnut
Huh?
join:2005-09-25
PDX Metro

hortnut to antdude

Member

to antdude
I have instructions in my POA forms as to where things are and who has access. There is no intent in closing any accounts, but rather maintain them, especially paying my bills and moving money around if I am laid up. My representative/s are named owners on my Safe Deposit box that contains a USB drive with all sorts of goodies. Of course my POA is extinguished at the moment I die.

As to my demise, there is the will and a letter of instructions. Frankly not all accounts need to be closed, only those that could have value in giving out private information are to be closed or that have monetary value. Some correspondence in Yahoo and other sites might need to be accessed during the closing my Estate.

Given the Laws of the State I currently live in, I believe I have built a way to have proper and legal access to whatever they need to process and close my Estate.
graniterock
Premium Member
join:2003-03-14
London, ON

graniterock to antdude

Premium Member

to antdude
Facebook currently will let you memorialize an account or delete but won't give out the passcodes or let you log into the account. If it's important for loved ones to have access to your account one should figure out a way to leave the keys. I have a friend who has instructed her closest friend to go into her bedroom and retrieve and destroy her diaries upon her death. Clear instructions ahead of time are important.

»www.facebook.com/help/15 ··· 48354038
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

yeh face book and deleting accounts theres a fun thing to do ..... not.

I deleted my account then was spammed by face book with emails about how all these people you may know are on face book come back now and you won't miss out. I had to work hard to change the email the fbspam was sent to then delete confirm and scrambled my throw away email pass word so i would never see their crap again....

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude to hortnut

Premium Member

to hortnut
Hortnut: I hope I am on your will. [grin]

Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

Kilroy to antdude

MVM

to antdude
Here's some food for thought. How many statements and bills do you receive via e-mail? For me, the answer is all of them. No one would know my financial situation without having access to my e-mail. I don't store any e-mail on line other than the most recent week or two. However, all of my banking statements and bills are sent to my e-mail account. You'd have to leave the account active for at least a year to ensure that you have received information from all of the accounts that I have. Additionally, if passwords need to be reset the resets will be sent to your e-mail account or phone.

When I'm dead, all of this is no longer an issue for me. It is however, an issue for those that I leave behind.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

I no longer use email since it is unencrypted except for signing up for forums, listservs, Microsoft newsletters, and participating in Mozilla newsgroups.

I don't receive any statements or bills via email. My privacy matters to me. I no longer do online banking either so I stand behind what I said. Yahoo is doing the right thing. No executor for my estate will need to access my handles online. I do no Facebook, Twitter or other "party" so called "networking".

Snowy
Lock him up!!!
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI

Snowy

Premium Member

said by Mele20:

My privacy matters to me. I no longer do online banking either...

Is that a privacy or security decision?
If it's a matter of privacy your online account still exists - you're just not accessing it.
If it's a matter of security - online 24/7/ access is a security tool that offsets the risk that online access presents, IMO.

Think about that - what are the risks of online access?
Man-in-the-middle attacks against financial institutions are rare enough to make them a non-issue, IMO.
Running a credential stealing trojan on your local machine would make online access a bad idea but just booting would be a bad idea too.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

It's because I prefer phone banking or in person banking. Both are much easier and quicker. Nothing changes with phone banking. Banks frequently change online banking making it irritating and more time consuming while you stumble around figuring out where the site put such and such and wondering why the supposed need to change the website so much (like Bankoh did recently). Plus, no ads or irritating Flash movies or REALLY irritating GIF and other type animations to drive you to distraction and trigger migraines.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned) to Snowy

Member

to Snowy
One bank account i had i never used online banking with at all. But i did set it up. As they had a default password bs deal set up. It was random but only 8 chars long. So i set it up with a extremely long cyphered pass phrase and maxed it out on pass length etc. Made up nonsense answers for the security questions etc.

Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR

Selenia to 19579823

Premium Member

to 19579823

Re: ‏

said by 19579823:

quote:
What do you guys think?
I think yahoo has become spying garbage and Im glad I dont use thier site!!!!!!!

Surely you mean
said by 19579823:

Yahoo has been spying garbage for years that has voluntarily sold information to the NSA and I'm glad I don't use their site!!!!!!!

Yes, I am a grammar Nazi sometimes but that is not the point of my corrections. The point is "has become" is like it's news when Yahoo had already sold out way back during the Bush administration. Possibly earlier than that. Has been with the modifier "for years" is much more appropriate.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave to Mele20

Premium Member

to Mele20

Re: Yahoo slams new 'digital will' law, says users have privacy when they die

said by Mele20:

It's because I prefer phone banking or in person banking. Both are much easier and quicker.

If making the trip to the bank to (say) deposit a check is quicker than depositing that check from the comfort of your own home, either you live in the lobby of a bank, or you're not very adept with a computer.

I figure it would take me at least 25 minutes to deposit a check at my bank, including travel time. To deposit from home, 5 minutes tops.

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

1 recommendation

antdude

Premium Member

said by dave:

said by Mele20:

It's because I prefer phone banking or in person banking. Both are much easier and quicker.

If making the trip to the bank to (say) deposit a check is quicker than depositing that check from the comfort of your own home, either you live in the lobby of a bank, or you're not very adept with a computer.

I figure it would take me at least 25 minutes to deposit a check at my bank, including travel time. To deposit from home, 5 minutes tops.

And those methods can be eavesdropped too.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20 to dave

Premium Member

to dave
Guess I'm not adept because I have no idea how I would deposit a check on a computer to a bank that I do no online banking with. I also have no idea how I would deposit a check to one bank that I have online banking with (which I rarely use) using my computer. I know that if one has a particular app on a smart cell phone and their bank offers that app to them then they can deposit using their cell phone. I know this because of the ads last year on TV about it. I don't know anyone who does it and I don't think any of the banks where I would deposit a check offer this here but I haven't paid that much attention because I don't have a smart cell phone. So, I could be wrong about banks offering it here. I do know the savings and loan here with the shakiest reputation offers this but I would not put money there.

I have accounts at various banks. I only have online access to one of those banks and the ONLY WAY I can deposit to my savings at that bank is in person (withdrawal the same way). This is for security purposes. (I also do not allow my savings at that bank to be tied in any way to my checking. Again, for security purposes as recommended by the bank). So called "convenience" can bite you in the ass. Better to be more cautious.

Why would I make a specific trip to a bank, as expensive as gas is here, to deposit a check? A well organized person would wait until the next time they are near one of the branches of the bank to deposit. The bank where I have my checking account has grocery store branches all over the place with much saner hours than the standalone branches besides that I drive right by one standalone branch to get downtown and drive right by another branch when going shopping. My other banks have several locations in Prince Kuhio Plaza and anytime I go out I go there for something. I have deposit envelopes at home so it is all filled out before I leave the house and I just deposit in the automatic teller unless I want to chat and go inside instead (or go inside a grocery to shop then I do my banking at the same time).
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

Me, the check comes in the mail, I flip on the scanner, and deposit it immediately. My life is thus simpler. One less thing in the 'to do' pile.

As a sort of rough indicator of the fuss being made here, consider the length of my replies that explain how I do something, with the length of your replies explaining otherwise.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

You are a guy. That's why your replies are like they are! And I am a gal and that is why my replies are like they are. It is also typical that it takes the gal to point out what should be obvious to the guy! And, like most guys, you probably still don't understand.

I haven't had a scanner since Windows 98. Those are not needed for most people since digital photography caught on.

My life is much simpler than yours and quieter. I hope to make it even more simple and quiet. Plus, I probably deposit one, maybe two, checks per year and not ever to my checking account. If you are depositing somehow to a savings account by scanning it and then what? You have an app to allow to then deposit it? That is a million times more trouble (plus bad security wise) than simply going in the bank when you drive by it many times a week. Automatic teller takes more time than walking inside and depositing or doing it at the grocery store where you walk directly by the bank as you walk in the door. I guess your wife does the grocery shopping though (but I still can't fathom how what you do is more convenient that what I do).

I have to conclude that you have no banks in grocery stores, you never drive anywhere, and you never go into a mall or into CVS, Walgreens, (where my banks have automatic tellers), etc. Poor thing you, you have to do some convoluted method because where you live is backward. But then guys are not hard wired to be planners and to be organized ....that's why the wife does all the finances.