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i_pk_pjers_i
join:2007-04-20
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i_pk_pjers_i to FreeThinker

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Re: [DSL] Sagecom 2864-000000-002 vdsl2* (looking for alternative)

said by FreeThinker:

The only way someone can make sense in regards to the question is by backing it with some practical experience. Claiming something is better just due to "a hype", fame or empirical observation, does not make it actually better.

My experience with routers comes from opening then; making custom firmware and hardware mods, benchmark them and so on. From the tech side my question; makes all the sense.

However i do take your sagemcom/SmartRG comparison in account due to some very valid points made but have in mind that if comparing; chips used, flash memory and ram resources and opensource compatibility, possible hardware extensions, etc; the observation may change.
I do not mind having to have put extra work on a piece of hardware to make it work the way i want and not the way the service wants as i am also used to compile everything from source code and make it work for the specifications of the service wanted/needed.

There are 2 types of hardware out there.
a) the end user hardware (mainstream)
b) toys for the tech boys (preferred)

I will look into the recommendation but quite honestly i prefer have headaches of mine rather than having to call tsi and realizing that they know less than me. (it has happened to many times/check my other topics).

For years i used an unsupported european adsl linux modem (no longer made) with TSI and my connection was rock solid and even better than with the official hardware.

"Claiming something is better just due to "a hype", fame or empirical observation, does not make it actually better."

True, but that also doesn't make it worse. If multiple people are claiming it's better and that the Sagemcom has issues, perhaps, just perhaps, the Sagemcom actually has some issues and the SmartRG is actually the better modem?

"I do not mind having to have put extra work on a piece of hardware to make it work the way i want and not the way the service wants as i am also used to compile everything from source code and make it work for the specifications of the service wanted/needed."

It doesn't matter how much time or effort you put into the Sagemcom, you're still better off with the SmartRG at the end of the day. There's a reason why everyone recommends the SmartRG and to stay aware from other modems, especially the Sagemcom. If you don't want to spend the extra money to upgrade to the SmartRG that's one thing, but claiming that the SmartRG isn't better just because people claim it's better is a bit silly. It's not better only because people claim it's better, it's better because it's actually better and people realize this.

Go ahead and find one person on these forums that says the Sagemcom is a good modem and it's better than the SmartRG. Seriously, I'll wait. You'll never find one person who says this.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

said by i_pk_pjers_i:

It doesn't matter how much time or effort you put into the Sagemcom, you're still better off with the SmartRG at the end of the day.

You are absolutely correct and i am not interested in keeping the sagecom as the topic name indicates; i am looking for an alternative. NOT keeping the sagemcom or debating that is better hardware (it is not).

I do find that that in these forums people tend to reply without noticing where the thread is going. (Go ahead and reply out of context :P).

It only takes the topic; off itself.

The sagemcom needs to go. Everything else is an alternative and i would like one that does not tie me to the ISP by their "recommended hardware".

There are have been some good replies here that may help us all. That is where the thread is going.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy

Member

SmartRG is the only legal alternative (as digi said in the first reply). /thread

Teddy Boom
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join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

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dslreports has an extraordinary amount of documentation/discussion on this issue. Search will definitely be your friend.

A few observations on the discussion so far..

Officially compatible modems, and possibly compatible modems
There are actually 5 modems known to support stingers now. Bell Home Hub 1000 and 2000 (aka Sagemcom F@st5250 and F@st4350 respectively), which we'll refer to as HH1000 and HH2000. Sagemcom F@st2864, or just Sagemcom. The Cellpipe 7130, or Cellpipe. Finally the SmartRG SR505n, or just SmartRG.

The HH1000 and SmartRG share the same broadcom chipset with several other VDSL2 modems:
»wikidevi.com/wiki/Specia ··· smwtable

I get into the implications of that wikidevi link a bit more in this thread, which coincidentally discusses what you asked in the OP:
»Alternative Acceptable VDSL modemz List?

Will you be on a Stinger, and what kind of VDSL is it
TekSavvy doesn't generally have information about whether you'll be on a Stinger or not. There was an effort here on dslreports to address that short fall:
»Bell Canada FTTN/FTTH Cataloging Project / Map

The result of that effort, in my opinion, is summed up in this exchange:
»Re: Toronto/GTA 7330/Stinger Remote Cataloging Project

And maybe to put it in a bit more detail.. If you are in an area with both 7330s and Stingers, you can be switched at any time from one to the other. You must have a compatible modem, or risk losing your connection.

Maybe the confusion you had with the techs boils down to an oversimplification.. Maybe techs are labeling the Stinger's not quite VDSL2 implementation as VDSL1. That isn't a great idea really... But it might explain the confusion.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker to JMJimmy

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to JMJimmy
Legal and compatible are 2 different things.
said by JMJimmy:

SmartRG is the only legal alternative

Actually there are 3 confirmed alternatives by TSI and a few more by the last reply.

Not 2 and it is not a matter of being legal. There are other key factors here that you are missing and by doing so you not helping by missing the treads that are helping out.
Thank you for your input anyway
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

2 edits

JMJimmy

Member

said by FreeThinker:

Legal and compatible are 2 different things.

said by JMJimmy:

SmartRG is the only legal alternative

Actually there are 3 confirmed alternatives by TSI. Not 2 and it is not a matter of being legal. There are other key factors here that you are missing and by doing so you not helping by missing the treads that are helping out.
Thank you for your input anyway

There are only 2 brands of VDSL modems that Bhell has approved for use (Sagemcom 2864/4350/5250 & SmartRG 505N). The ZyXEL mentioned earlier in this thread is currently illegal to import/operate in Canada (hence my "at your own risk" comment) so while it might work, it's not recommended.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
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join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

Teddy Boom

Premium Member

said by JMJimmy:

The ZyXEL [...] is currently illegal to import/operate in Canada

?

squircle
join:2009-06-23
OTWAON10

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squircle to JMJimmy

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said by JMJimmy:

The ZyXEL mentioned earlier in this thread is currently illegal to import/operate in Canada

Uh... no. It's not.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy

Member

said by squircle:

said by JMJimmy:

The ZyXEL mentioned earlier in this thread is currently illegal to import/operate in Canada

Uh... no. It's not.

What is the IC certification number then?

Edit: And I stand corrected - there are technically 3 brands... though I would not wish the Cellpipe on anyone lol
henry128
join:2010-09-03
Hillsboro, OR

henry128

Member

»ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/P-870M-I3_ ··· v2_2.pdf

Might not be absolute proof, but on page 14 of the user's guide for Zyxel P-870M-I[1,3] v2:
Changes or modifications not expressly approved by the party responsible for compliance could void the user's authority to operate the equipment. This Class B digital apparatus complies with Canadian ICES-003.

Cet appareil numérique de la classe B est conforme à la norme NMB-003 du Canada
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

2 edits

JMJimmy

Member

Class B declaration is not the same, I don't think it's a Class B device, but even if it qualifies as one it's also Terminal Equipment that falls under DC-01 (not just ICES-003) - as such requires an IC number to be legal to import/sell/operate/etc

Edit:
From the horse's mouth:

ADSL/VDSL modem router will need to be certified and registered in Canada before it can be imported and use in Canada. If the modem has wireless capability, then it will need to meet the requirements of RSS-210 and RSS-Gen. The ADSL/VDSL part of the modem will need to be tested to CS-03 part I and VIII. Please refer to procedures RSP-100 and DC-01 for the application requirements. If the device is not registered in Canada, then it is not allowed to be imported and used in Canada.

Certification and Engineering Bureau, Engineering, Planning and Standards Branch
Industry Canada / Government of Canada (13)
certification.bureau@ic.gc.ca / Tel: 613-990-4218 / TTY: 1-866-694-8389

(also why I don't think it qualifies as a class B device - wireless routers are under RSS-210/Gen/etc and ICES Class B devices are for things like cable modems that do not have wireless capabilities)
henry128
join:2010-09-03
Hillsboro, OR

henry128

Member

Fair enough (I'm not familiar with the regulatory system, so I can't really comment). But you would think that they would do all of the certifications, not just some? (Why advertise some Canadian certifications if it's not intended to be sold to Canada?)

Edit: btw, the P-870M-I1/I3 does not have wireless.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

1 edit

JMJimmy

Member

said by henry128:

Fair enough (I'm not familiar with the regulatory system, so I can't really comment). But you would think that they would do all of the certifications, not just some? (Why advertise some Canadian certifications if it's not intended to be sold to Canada?)

Honestly, it's confusing to figure out what is required. The certification documents are highly technical and somewhat overlapping for certain devices. I'm sure mistakes are made and I'm sure some companies try to get away with not registering since it costs $750+ per device to get an IC number.

Edit: My mistake about the I series, I figured it was a combo device as well. Since it's not they wouldn't need to get Radio certification but all ADSL/VDSL modems (combo or not) require Terminal Equipment certification
i_pk_pjers_i
join:2007-04-20
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Good, I'm glad we agree that the Sagemcom is not worth keeping. As for alternatives, what do you want in an alternative? Do you want a modem/router all in one or do you just want a modem that would be just a modem? Honestly, the SmartRG as a modem/router all in one isn't that good because it's a fairly bad router, but in bridge mode it's great. It's perfectly stable, secure (if you have the latest firmware from Start), and performs great. What else would you want out of a VDSL modem? There's a reason why everyone here recommends the SmartRG - it's because it's actually great, unlike the Sagemcom.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

1 edit

FreeThinker

Member

@ i_pk_pjers_i
Thank you for your participation and feedback but not only you ask things that are quite explicit in previous replies/posts as well it can be seen that you are not following the topic as mentioned before.

But i will tell you one thing i do not want; have to be stuck with something just because EVERYONE else wants it or says that is is the best thing. Thats fine and i have nothing against it.

There are technical reasons why things are the way they are and my decision will be based on that. Just please stop trying to push that router to my side. (i get it)

If i decide to get the smartg, the decision will be based on it's hardware capabilities, dslam compatibility, line conditions and other factors as well as other functionalities i need for my network as i am not an end user or plug and play user type. I am on the opposite side of the user friendly systems. I have very specific tech needs.

However i am sure you will be able to tell me how good it is in order to make me happy with the choice and I will let you know by then. We got your point.
FreeThinker

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FreeThinker to JMJimmy

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said by JMJimmy:

SmartRG is the only legal alternative (as digi said in the first reply). /thread

said by JMJimmy:

As digiwth said, there are only 2 supported modems allowed on the Bhell network at the moment. SmartRG is without a doubt better than the Sagemcom. There are unsupported modems that might work (no idea what they are) but you would be doing so at your own risk.

said by JMJimmy:

There are only 2 brands of VDSL modems that Bhell has approved for use (Sagemcom 2864/4350/5250 & SmartRG 505N). The ZyXEL mentioned earlier in this thread is currently illegal to import/operate in Canada (hence my "at your own risk" comment) so while it might work, it's not recommended

Aside the fact that you state quite a few different things in several of your posts like what we see; once again i am told by Teksavvy tech support that there are 3. Feel free to argue with them. Not with me.

Perhaps you could slow down on you participation in this topic as there are other people actually provided a lot better, unbiased and more tech information to the my questions and doubts as opposed to what i see 2 other (teksavvy) people doing here.

I have tried a similar topic here some months ago and got flamed and stuck on biased modem wars mostly from people that were onto something else other than helping the topic.

I will get back to you if in need of legal input in regards to Canadian legislation as i am sure you might be a valuable source of that type of information. Right now i am the dslam problem which in turn will also cause the modem problem.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy

Member

As I said, I stand corrected there are 3 - I forgot the Cellpipe due to it's truly horrid performance - I would honestly take a Sagemcom + SnS over a Cellpipe.

I'm probably the most informed on the sync-no-surf issue of anyone on these boards - I've done everything from read the documentation on the stinger to testing with TSI-Andre and managers at Bhell. But you're right, I should sod off. Cheers.
warza8
join:2010-03-08
North York, ON

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I'm in the same boat with original poster. I'm looking for an alternative. In my particular setup I will use the modem in bridged mode. Plain and simple.

Question that the TSI avoiding or just reply politically (read: use at your own risk advice) is if there is any restriction on using a different VDSL modem that have all requirements that TSI/B*hell is asking for? Or more simple: you give me the signal and your requirements and I take a look to check if your proposal fit my needs or try to find an alternative.

Checking if a modem can or cannot handle TSI/B*hell signal it's just a simple table with tick-boxes.
whatever*DSL -> check, Profile *a/b/c/d -> check, otherRequirement* -> check ... and so on, and if all checked you can go with your happily purchased modem, but if the modem must to be one of those all-in-wonder modems the ISP chooses for us then the conclusion is simple: No other modems other than what your ISP sell will work or will work with unknown results. I doubt that they choose those based on their real performance (even in bridge mode) rather than cost and end user coverage.

I'm afraid that all TekSavvy tech savvy it's now follow-the-manual savvy. I'm amazed that they don't have a small lab (maybe I'm wrong) where they can test few other modems as a tech savvy should do (even just from curiosity). But probably it's more cost effective to keep support for just 3 modems from witch 2 have reported/known problems. Oh ... I wait for outsourced tech support soon It's cheaper and they should have knowledge about 3 modems, will have manuals/FAQ/Knowledge Base and the mighty Google for sending you information you can easily find. It's not rocket science and not need to be tech savvy.

If you know your network and your equipment(s) you really should know what and why will fit or not. But for now we shoot in the dark trying to match modems with an unknown network requirements.

I will postpone my request for SmartRG for now but still looking for a modem.
I'm curious about your final conclusion FreeThinker.
henry128
join:2010-09-03
Hillsboro, OR

henry128

Member

I'm no expert on the nuances of the situation, but here's my general understanding:

- There are no artificial restrictions on what modem you use. You may use any modem that works.

- Because many of the DSLAMs are non-standard almost-VDSL2 Stingers, there are very few VDSL2 modems that actually work with those (officially sanctioned or not). The exact number of such modems has been argued in great detail above. If you're on a real-VDSL2 7330 DSLAM, you can use ~any VDSL2 modem.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker to warza8

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to warza8
Thank you for your reply warza. I totally agree with you.

So far my conclusion seems to point that the problems with the Sagecom 2864 are mostly due to the dslam that i (we) have (stinger) since some Sagecom 2864 users have reported having it working well with a 7330 dslam. Some other research posted in this topic also mentions the irregular stinger firmware of the Stinger DSLAMs deployed by Bell Canada are root causing problems because
they are not fully VDSL2 compatible and Bell Canada has identified only 1 modem (Sagemcom 2864) that is compatible which is due to custom firmware of their own. (very convenient)
The smartrg came later maybe to try to avoid bell's modem monopoly.

To me these facts point that the compatibility of the Sagemcom 2864 is does not seem to be the modem hardware but how the firmware handles the connectivity to the dslam.
said by Teddy Boom:

Officially compatible modems, and possibly compatible modems
There are actually 5 modems known to support stingers now. Bell Home Hub 1000 and 2000 (aka Sagemcom F@st5250 and F@st4350 respectively), which we'll refer to as HH1000 and HH2000. Sagemcom F@st2864, or just Sagemcom. The Cellpipe 7130, or Cellpipe. Finally the SmartRG SR505n, or just SmartRG.

According the the above information; we can pinpoint much better if the key to compatibility with the dslam is actually the hardware or the firmware.
»Alternative Acceptable VDSL modemz List?
said by Teddy Boom:

I believe that the thing the Cellpipe, Sagemcom and Zhone modems have in common is an Ikanos chipset. Other than the SR505n, I don't think there are any non-Ikanos modems that will work with Stingers.

If is this correct; i am more and more inclined to see the problem solved by firmware and not hardware. If anyone can confirm this; it will help.
However (see bellow)

[VDSL] So I found a working modem for Stingers. but....
»[VDSL] So I found a working modem for Stingers. but....

Cisco working with a stinger
»Re: [DSL] NEW RATES - Bell Ontario - Update
quote:
It appears that the Cisco EHWIC-VA-DSL-A will work on both Stinger and non-Stinger VDSL connections
We have hardware alternatives to these 3 endorsed TSI modem brands and models but as you said we are also shooting in the dark without knowing more information to try to solve he problem.
The real obstacle to use them is TSI itself for a couple reasons:

a) most their techs don't even know how to deal with the endorsed modems and having the customers using their own hardware flavour scares them because to their minds they will not know how to solve possible problems.
However what they forget is that if someone is willing to deal with any possible modem problem on their own; they will also not be wasting time calling an ISP tech that gives answers based a pre-set written script and asks their co-workers for answers they don't know them or hit google.
For me as long as the the ISP network infrastructure is working properly i am not calling them nor i want to waste time with any of them.

b) by keeping the smartrg source code closed, are only trying to keep a hardware monopoly that they will not have; forgetting that if the code is available to the community; the community will work towards understanding how it works and have it working on other types of hardware which will give more freedom to the users and on the long run will pay off to everyone.

If TSI wants to do the right thing to help their users and keep sustainable growth ; then it should release the smartrg firmware source code and let the community work for free and faster then their mediocre techs. Someone said that the smartg runs a linux kernel and if that is true; then we are half way to solve the problem.

So right now i stand on the following:

a) need to get exact info about the dslam i use in regards to model and firmware being used.
b) after that; look for hardware compatibility
c) unless provided more specific information i will shooting in the dark
I will plan to contact some hardware vendors or manufacturers to get information in regards to the stinger modem compatibility. (draytek has some really nice hardware)

I am also not jumping into the smart waggon just because according to a lot of people; "it works". Just because it works for them does not mean it works for the rest if the issues come from the dslam.

As for the legal or non legal / endorsed or non endorsed modem by the ISP i have only one thing to say. If their hardware does not work properly for me/us and ours solve the problem; then they have 2 options.

a) keep the client
b) lose the client

digiwth
join:2012-09-21

digiwth

Member

Expecting Teksavvy to release the source code for a device they don't own isn't unreasonable at all.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

said by digiwth:

Expecting Teksavvy to release the source code for a device they don't own isn't unreasonable at all.

Although i prefer not to get of topic; unless i am wrong if TSI releases the source code for example under a free gnu licence of their choice; for a specific piece of hardware (like many others do for routers that they don't own); what would be the obstacle ?

To my knowledge they don't need to own the hardware. All they need to own is the code they created, own the rights to it and make it available for everyone. What is unreasonable about that ?

»forums.redflagdeals.com/ ··· 1474486/
quote:
The SmartRG is sourced by TekSavvy (to the extent they can request firmware tweaks)
If we can ask for tweaks; they can provide the source code if they want regardless of the modem in question.

digiwth
join:2012-09-21
SmartRG SR808ac
Asus RT-AC86
SmartRG SR505N

digiwth

Member

Often when routers get custom firmwares, the source code (or at minimum, blobs for the hardware it runs) have been previously released, nothing has been released for the SmartRG.

And just because they can request fixes/changes to the firmware through SmartRG does not give them the right to distribute proprietary code.
warza8
join:2010-03-08
North York, ON

1 edit

warza8

Member

That will trace us back to the original question. Is any modem alternative (other than TSI/B*hell offer) that will work with TSI?

If they tweak the modem(s) firmware for their convenience (with setting/stuff/things/orcs unknown for us humble people of Middle Earth) then the obvious response for our question is NO or maybe not an real alternative found. But we will die trying

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

A bit more info i just found.
while lots of people report that ikanos chipset modem work; some of these modems are not reported flawless.

Then on the other side there are broadcom chipset modems beeing reported to work with the stingers/ikanos dslams.
quote:
Ikanos IKNS "Remote" DSLAMS have several bugs that result in false Line Stats produced by the CPE modem. These bogus Line Stats are frequently misinterpreted by inexperienced DSL problem solvers, resulting in misdiagnosis of (non-)problems, unnecessary trouble tickets, unnecessary modem replacements, unnecessary line repair calls, unnecessary anguish, unnecessary blaming, unnecessary unhappiness, and unnecessary human conflict. If there is no (other) problem with the line, equipment, noise, software, or configuration, the IKNS Dysfunctions are merely a nuisance. But if there are problems, the IKNS falsifications can seriously impede problem discovery and resolution.

Bell Canada has reportedly been aware of these bugs since early 2008. Ikanos have produced several failed non-solution attempts. The problem is regarded as low priority by Bell, since it is seen as not actually affecting DS data rates, and perhaps since it affects predominantly customers of Wholesaler ISP's, especially P2P users, and users who are aware of what data rates they are actually getting.

The Lantern Data, (accessible by the ISP), shows the Line Stats from the DSLAM end. It is the only source of correct Line Data, since the IKNS DSLAM falsifies that Line Data that it sends to the CPE modem!
Known bugs of IKNS DSLAMs
»community.acanac.com/aca ··· &t=10268

Also:
»community.acanac.com/Aca ··· p=141215

According to:
»www.toronto-subaru-club. ··· t10.html
One must use an ikanos chipset router to a stinger dslam

However the smartrg is Broadcom BCM63168U and it is reported to be the router that works best with the stinger/ikanos dslam around Toronto.

So far this gets us closer to options by excluding those not known to work.

Here is an interesting report about the adsl tp-link TD models and the stinger/ikanos dslams
»forums.redflagdeals.com/ ··· 14432294
bw5745
join:2014-03-14

bw5745

Member

My reading of all this mess is that the Stringers really suck. Bell must have paid for the Cellpipe to be customized for the Stingers. Now they have paid for three generations of Sagemcoms to be customized.

If I recall correctly, Start Communications paid for the customization for the SmartRG. They also paid for the approval process at Bell so that its use is permitted.

While there must be RF engineers at Bell to evaluate modems, you can't expect the independent ISPs to have people qualified to modify the low level firmware that controls the modem chipset. While the OS might be Linux, the chipset drivers would be proprietary and not open source. This isn't like loading a version of Tomato onto your router to play with. You need people with access to a test lab with a Stinger remote. If all the engineering effort and funding is spent on working around the Stinger, you end up with a modem that works, but very basic diagnostic and router features available to the user.

Also, your last post describes a completely different longtime bug in ADSL2. The upstream rate is below normal because the Stinger reports the SNR incorrectly. People try different modems because different models have better or worse upstream by chance.

To sum up...

Stinger Bugs
ADSL Works Fine
ADSL2 Low Upstream Rate
VDSL2 Customized Firmware Needed to Work at All
OneQuestion
join:2006-01-09
Toronto, ON

OneQuestion to FreeThinker

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to FreeThinker
I have a Sagecom 2864-000000-002 vdsl2 modem for Teksavvy’s DSL 25/10 service in Toronto. Overnight last night my modem lost all of the settings in it, including my teksavvy username, password, and custom DNS (unblock-us.com) which I had inputted into it. It seemed to have reset itself back to the factory reset and I got a Bell prompt asking me for my Bell username and password. I couldn’t access the internet. It did retain the password I had assigned to the router to access the admin page through »192.168.2.1. I went into the admin page on my modem and re-entered my teksavvy username and password and I was able to access the internet again, so problem solved.

I was wondering about would have caused this reset. My first guess was that it was a firmware upgrade. On the “About Connection Hub” it says my firmware is as follows:
Firmware Version: FAST2864_v68446
Rescue Version: FAST2864_v78446
Hardware Version: 2864-000000-002

Anyone else have a reset last night? Any way of determining whether this is the latest firmware version?

Now, I am probably being a bit paranoid, but I have been concerned about my modem getting hacked ever since the reports about Linksys and Netgear routers having backdoors in them. I have been wondering whether anyone has put the Sagecom modems through similar testing to see if there is a backdoor in them. I must admit that I had a pretty basic password for my Sagecom modem, that being just a single dictionary word. I changed this to a much more complex password today. My Teksavvy password is sufficiently complex. None of these passwords are reused on any other site. The Sagecom admin page shouldn’t be accessible from the internet, only from my internal network, but I am concerned that there might be some undocumented way of accessing it remotely. My concern is that someone may have hacked my Sagecom modem and installed malicious firmware. In theory malicious firmware could be used for remote access to my network, network traffic monitoring, and man-in-the-middle attacks. Is there any way for me to over-write the existing firmware with a new downloaded firmware version so I know it is a safe version? I did find the “Factory Reset” button in the admin page, but if the firmware was modified then this button could be rendered useless. I guess one option is for me to put the Sagecom modem into bridge mode and then use a router with DD-WRT. If I truly don’t trust my Sagecom modem, though, then I should set-up DD-WRT to use VPN so all the traffic going through my Sagecom modem is encrypted, but that would slow down my connection. I would rather just get comfortable that I can trust my Sagecom modem again. Any suggestions? Am I simply being too paranoid?

From reading this threat, it sounds like I would generally be better off switching to a SmartRG 505N. How do I do this switch? I assume I just phone Teksavvy up and ask for it. Will it cost me anything to switch?

Thanks.

TSI Kris
Premium Member
join:2013-11-18
Chatham, ON

2 edits

TSI Kris

Premium Member

Hey there,

While you are of course welcome to switch and it's always a good idea to make sure your security is up to par, I wouldn't worry about the reset being a security breach. I'm not 100% sure what the trigger is, but effectively the modem is set to reset its PPPoE settings to safe defaults if it runs into certain issues. Problem is that these safe defaults are intended for our vendor's customers and not ours, so there's sometimes some confusion caused by that and making it a bit of a pain to set back up. This could have happened if you were down for extended maintenance or similar. Marc made a post on it here: »Re: Give it a rest - Teksavvy Tech crew is A1

It was a very widespread thing when we had the outages on September 1st.

As for the cost of the SmartRG, it's $120 plus $10 shipping. Unless you keep running into issues with your Sagemcom though, I really wouldn't suggest switching. It is of course your call. Just give us a call or post in the »/fo ··· avdirect forum.
warza8
join:2010-03-08
North York, ON

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Question for OneQuestion. How you end up asking this question into a topic that has NOTHING related with your issues other than using a similar modem? That's a nice technique. Posted at ~4am? You must carefully check your timezone. TSI are you there? You're welcome to advertise your SmartRG here

Going again to our initial question: what other modem alternative we have?
So far looks like none. We should stick with what they offer because we don't know what kind of customization they did. (I guess they have orcs inside our modems ... the great eye is looking for us)

Mostly from 'Toronto/GTA 7330/Stinger Remote Cataloging Project thread' are just guess based on what they see (brown boxes) on site. It's a well kept mystery. My main concern now is that all B*hell network is based on mysterious hardware setups that works with patches they apply on end-user's hardware and make it (read force it) work with their crap. That's not evolution. The hardware manufacturer must to invent hardware that work for them and that will narrow our freedom of choice.
Hardware modification/customization it's made by people like us not wizards and that's means if we know the problem we may end up with a better solution. But we don't know the problem. Nobody looks to know the problem. Everything it's just rumors. Actually does anyone know about any problem? Is not B*hell the perfect communication network ever made on earth? I should switch to B*hell. They are awesome individuals working in our favor. They do customization and they look after us. For every bit

Now: What is the difference between TSI/B*hell/Ro*bers/Start/Contact/Acanac/*Others? They all use the same 2 main players for 2 different connection types: whatever*DSL and Cable. Difference? Price and support. But why I will need support for something that should just work (at least in theory). I'm not the average end-user 'not know nothing' individual. What's the advantage of TSI over Start for example. Their setup it's almost identical. They use the same modems. The same B*hell copper/fiber lines. It's just a roulette. Or a personal company name preference and I may end up going with a different letter. Just for a change.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

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said by OneQuestion:

Overnight last night my modem lost all of the settings in it, including my teksavvy username, password

Although i never lost settings; the reason why i started this topic was exactly because of what you describe.

The sagecom has a similar setup and allows telnet from the wan.
said by OneQuestion:

I was wondering about would have caused this reset. My first guess was that it was a firmware upgrade. On the "About Connection Hub" it says my firmware is as follows:
Firmware Version: FAST2864_v68446
Rescue Version: FAST2864_v78446
Hardware Version: 2864-000000-002

It is a very valid and logical conclusion. It does happen that way. There are ways that can get you more control of the sagecom. But the firmware upgrade may have been done to prevent this:
Telnet Unlock Tool for Sagemcom 2864 not working.
»Telnet Unlock Tool for Sagemcom 2864 not working..
said by OneQuestion:

Now, I am probably being a bit paranoid, but I have been concerned about my modem getting hacked ever since the reports about Linksys and Netgear routers having backdoors in them

More and more routers are reported to come with backdoors by design. Some Dlink and Tp-Link also have them. Changing the firmware to open source firmware solves the problem.
said by OneQuestion:

I have been wondering whether anyone has put the Sagecom modems through similar testing to see if there is a backdoor in them

In the case of of the sagecom it does not even need to be a backdoor but a remote access feature that it does have. The is not uncommon as for example the thompson tg used by some ISPs in Europe also comes with a similar feature for the isp that uses it. In the case of the thompson tg 587 it has configured ssh access enabled by default to a specific IP from the ISP and ssh public key to ensure access from the wan.

Last time i port scanned my Sagecom i found telnet enabled on the wan side. This is for the ISP or someone else access and by default you cannot change that unless you downgrade the firmware, enable telnet for the lan then access the hardware and close that port/service. This will not prevent use of any possible backdoors.

Check your modem/router with nmap from port 0 to 65535 for port and service version discovery.
said by OneQuestion:

In theory malicious firmware could be used for remote access to my network, network traffic monitoring, and man-in-the-middle attacks.

It is not in theory. It is in practical reality and it does not even have to be done by anyone from isp as for example any attacker that is able to find it's way in can take advantage of this type of native feature. This type of attacks does happen.
said by OneQuestion:

is there any way for me to over-write the existing firmware with a new downloaded firmware version

Firmware upgrade or downgrade but you are still stuck with proprietary firmware which will not make it safer.
However you can at least shut down the sagecom wan remote telnet access.
said by OneQuestion:

I guess one option is for me to put the Sagecom modem into bridge mode and then use a router with DD-WRT. If I truly don't trust my Sagecom modem, though, then I should set-up DD-WRT to use VPN so all the traffic going through my Sagecom modem is encrypted, but that would slow down my connection

Yes it will help and no it should not slowdown the connection if your vpn exit node has at least the same line capacity as your current isp package.
»How to put Sagemcom 2864 in bridge mode?
said by OneQuestion:

Any suggestions? Am I simply being too paranoid?

From reading this threat, it sounds like I would generally be better off switching to a SmartRG 505N

If your main concern is security; switching to the SmartRG will not solve the problem. You will be in the same boat just with a different name on it.
If your concern is security you need a linux supported modem/router preferably open source or use a vdsl pci card on your computer to establish the connection and then have the computer route your network. There are options and i may have found 1 which i will post bellow.