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FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker to TSI Kris

Member

to TSI Kris

Re: [DSL] Sagecom 2864-000000-002 vdsl2* (looking for alternative)

Thank you for your input. We'll get back to you if in need of more advice or recommendation. Enjoy the reading until then

digiwth
join:2012-09-21
SmartRG SR808ac
Asus RT-AC86
SmartRG SR505N

digiwth to FreeThinker

Member

to FreeThinker
You do realize that doing bridging/ppoe passthrough skips all of the routing functionality of the device, and removes all these supposed attack vectors?

Just like you, my Sagemcom had something like 5-10 ports open (no telnet lan though, that sounds fishy), using PPPoE passthrough I am down to 1 or 2 that I've forwarded by hand on my actual router, including shutting down TR-069 access. I imagine it's the same case with the SmartRG, apply bridge config, setup your own router, ???, profit.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

2 edits

FreeThinker to warza8

Member

to warza8
Once again i agree. You are hitting key points.
I have questioned myself whats the point going with TSI if all they do is following the same steps as bell.

Now getting back on track i may have found some light at the end of the tunnel.

Its called AVM FRITZbox and check out this baby.
Comes with ikanos chipset as well as broadcom.
Runs linux natively as well as 3rd party linux free software and source code is available. Uses busybox.

As for hardware resources we are looking at quite a lot of goodies.
Just to start
MIPS@500MHz 128MiB 16MiB+512MiB (flash)
Serial and jtag access, etc, etc

»wikidevi.com/wiki/AVM_FR ··· LAN_7390
»wiki.openwrt.org/toh/avm ··· lan.7390
»freetz.org/

Great features:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· xVYO3aAU


Its downside is the price but hey; toys for the tech boys
»www.cnet.com/au/products ··· ox-7390/

I have no doubt that we have alternatives however they may not be standard consumer products.
Research also points that routers that use the same chipset as the dslams have no reason not to work.

If we are on a stinger/ikanos all we need to know if the specs of that dslam and there are no reasons to have to be stuck with orcs in our lan.

I will keep the AVM FRITZbox on my list as i have been looking into draytek produtcs.

During this reply my modem got rebooted and i may be able to get some info about why it happened later on.

edit: i found someone using this modem/router with bell. Lets see if i get feedback.
FreeThinker

FreeThinker to digiwth

Member

to digiwth
Yes i do realize that and i have not excluded the option of using bridging/ppoe passthroug on the short run. Most likely i will use it until switching to the alternative, but i am (we) still stuck with crappy piece of hardware as we all know. This modem has to go sooner or later.
none of my ISP connections anywhere use the default ISP recommended provided modems and this will not be an exception. Using my own hardware flavor always paid back better.
FreeThinker

FreeThinker to Teddy Boom

Member

to Teddy Boom
Your reply has been of great value.
I also found what seems to be bells remote map
quote:
Bell Remote map
Locations of Bell Canada's Remotes, with designations as to whether they are 7330s (good) or Stingers (bad).

Colors:
Pink - Stinger
Blue (Default) - 7330
Blue pin - VSEM
Purple - Both Stinger & 7330
Purple pin - Both Stinger & VSEMs
Yellow - Unknown
Green - Bell CO
Aquamarine - CSP (Central Splitting Point) for GPON FTTH
»maps.google.com/maps/ms? ··· =feature
henry128
join:2010-09-03
Hillsboro, OR

henry128

Member

said by FreeThinker:

I also found what seems to be bells remote map

That's the user-contributed effort to catalogue remotes, as mentioned by Teddy Boom.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

I just contributed with a few locations the catalog and have a few more to add in later. Hopefully someone will update the map soon.

On the phone with crapsavvy i am told that i am on the stinker dslam .
The first time they told me that there are no 7330's outside. The second time that they have no way of knowing.

However, the dslams that serve the area look like stinkers but they also look to be coupled with 7330's which were added later.
If so; there is hope. I am now waiting to confirm from other sources if i have the 7330.

If so; TSI will have to go troubleshoot things with me to see if the problem gets solved and if not as we know; then they can ask bell to look at it and bell will choose what is the best solution.
This is the current protocol i am told about it as it looks like that no one can ask bell to change the dslam. Troubleshooting will dictate to the isp what do next.

To me things look quite simple:
a) move me to the 7330 if one is there as it looks like it
b) replace/exchange my modem for free.

digiwth
join:2012-09-21
SmartRG SR808ac
Asus RT-AC86
SmartRG SR505N

1 edit

digiwth

Member

I'm not even sure you can demand what type of remote you're connected to, even if you some how manage to get moved over to one temporarily, Bell can move you any remote it sees fit down the road.

Why do you feel Teksavvy should replace your modem without a fee? You seem to think you're the only person ever to have problems with Stingers. If you're disliking the DSL service so much, and its supported hardware, why not switch to cable?

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

said by digiwth:

Why do you feel Teksavvy should replace your modem without a fee?

If we rent the modem and there is a problem; they replace it. What happens when you by an appliance that does not work as advertised ? Why do car manufacturers recall cars sometimes ? If the latest Iphone does not work welwith the service what happens ? Why should we pay for a product that does not work for the service that we pay for ? Why should an ISP be exempted from a policy that is used by the majority of services i get out there ?
said by digiwth:

You seem to think you're the only person ever to have problems with Stingers

No and it is exactly why i am not the only one that all of us should make some serious noise to get the problem taken care of.
said by digiwth:

If you're disliking the DSL service so much, and its supported hardware, why not switch to cable?

This takes us way off topic just like the rest or the post and reply. Cable has it's tech disadvantages over *dsl* as well as extra disadvantages in regards to the isp chosen.
The problem as nothing to do with dsl (type of the service) by it's infrastructure and hardware.

Please lets keep the topic as much as possible on topic as it will benefit us all.

digiwth
join:2012-09-21
SmartRG SR808ac
Asus RT-AC86
SmartRG SR505N

digiwth

Member

How is suggesting a total infrastructure change off topic? You're clearly not happy with the degree of support you're able to obtain due to non-standard equipment (especially considering you've set your forum epithet to 'crapsavvy customer'). Just because you don't like the option doesn't mean it's not a valid option.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

Topic is about vdsl modem alternative/s equivalents

digiwth
join:2012-09-21
SmartRG SR808ac
Asus RT-AC86
SmartRG SR505N

2 edits

digiwth

Member

If that is the sole purpose of this thread, it has run its course. You've been told the ones that are known to work, and shot them down for one reason or another, and haven't contributed anything yourself.

Put your money where your mouth is, go buy some VDSL2 modems and tell us how they're not working on your Stinger.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

said by digiwth:

If that is the sole purpose of this thread, it has run its course. You've been told the ones that are known to work, and shot them down for one reason or another, and haven't contributed anything yourself

Although it might be convenient to some people that i just end my quest, i am not done and i am waiting from hardware manufacturer replies too.

The only doubt on my mind is if i will post/notify everyone or just the ones that are on the same boat as i am.

Thank you for your contributions to the topic. They had their value
FreeThinker

FreeThinker to squircle

Member

to squircle
said by squircle:

I had success with a ZyXEL P870M-I1

Would you be able to confirm without a doubt if that exact model has an ikanos chipset or actually a broadcom BCM63xx one like BCM6368

For example; the P-870HN-51b seems to be BCM6368.
»www.zyxel.com/products_s ··· 1b.shtml

BCM6368 is BCM63xx which falls under the family of BCM63168 which is used by the smartrg 505n

It would be of great help if you could confirm the exact chip used by the ZyXEL P870M-I1 (if possible with pictures)

squircle
join:2009-06-23
OTWAON10

squircle

Member

I don't own the modem anymore, but I bought the -I1 model specifically because it had an Ikanos chipset (hence the 'I' in the model number). I did use it successfully with a Stinger for a number of months, but I can't offer any more than my testimonial since I sold the modem.

Tux2
join:2014-05-23
Canada

Tux2 to FreeThinker

Member

to FreeThinker
said by FreeThinker:

said by squircle:

I had success with a ZyXEL P870M-I1

Would you be able to confirm without a doubt if that exact model has an ikanos chipset or actually a broadcom BCM63xx one like BCM6368

For example; the P-870HN-51b seems to be BCM6368.
»www.zyxel.com/products_s ··· 1b.shtml

BCM6368 is BCM63xx which falls under the family of BCM63168 which is used by the smartrg 505n

It would be of great help if you could confirm the exact chip used by the ZyXEL P870M-I1 (if possible with pictures)

I'm currently using two ZyXEL P870M-I1 V2 on a Stinger remote for my MLPPP setup. The modem has "Ikanos" chip inside, I can confirm. I bought the modems online. Here is the link: "WiFi-parts". The modem is discontinued but I believe is still available.

There is only an important note. The modem is a pure VDSL2 bridge. You will need an enterprise class router that is capable to set up VLAN tagging on an Ethernet network (IEEE 802.1Q standard) in order to establish connection with Bell network.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

2 edits

FreeThinker

Member

Thank you for your reply it is of great help.
Would be possible to know what exactly ikanos chipset version is it ?
I would like to confirm something about Ikanos Fusiv Vx180

I am looking for something like this or similar or whatever can be seen.
»lh4.googleusercontent.co ··· 2003.jpg

Another detail that i need is about what firmware and version is the ZyXEL P870M-I1 using.
FreeThinker

2 edits

FreeThinker to warza8

Member

to warza8
said by warza8:

I will postpone my request for SmartRG for now but still looking for a modem.

While the smartRG mentioned here has been so praised; it is also not 100% flawless as it has it's own set of issues including connectivity to stinger slams.

A few urls that may be worth to read:

The firmware bug:
»[DSL] SmartRG appears to power cycle itself
(this is very similar to some of my issues with the sagecom)

The dns lock issue:
»[DSL] DNS issue with SmartRG 505N

The bridged mode loss of connectivity firmware issue solved.
»forum.vmedia.ca/forum/in ··· 5-10-dsl
quote:
SmartRG has a firmware issue which originates from a Broadcom firmware issue. It is unable to sync to specific models of DSLAMs (Stinger) when you have a large distance between CPE and DSLAM. We are aware of this issue and we stopped offering SmartRG modem until issue is resolved. Any SmartRG user experiencing symptoms of no sync should contact our technical support and request to flip their modem for Sagecom
Vmedia isp considers smartrg inferior
»forum.vmedia.ca/forum/ne ··· l-modems
quote:
We will not. They have deficiencies on certain DSLAMs with Bell. Fail to sync or producing lower download and upload speeds We will however start selling a Vmedia bell certified modem/router/voip/wifi VDSL gateway in a few weeks
SmartRG 505n Modem Router QoS also been reported to have problems for some people.

Although some of these issues may have been solved with firmware tweaks and or updates; there are no warranties that they will not happen to someone else in different scenarios or even similar.

In my case; these issues and the potential risk of having them happen to me; do not compensate the risk of spending up to $120 bucks to came here and tell some people what modem/router does not work with my stinger or gets the same type of problem

I prefer to have to deal with issues done by my technical choices rather than empirical observation of hardware performance that some say i should buy.
I am also currently trying something with my sagecom to see if the connection gets stable as it should.

As for alternatives i already have a list of over 10 potential working modems compatible with the stinger dslam.
One has been reported to work with the stinger by 2 people and i wait for 3rd confirmation.

At least 2 other brands are reported to be compatible with the stinger by the manufacturer.
Another one i do believe that has all it's needed to work and i wait also from confirmation from another source.

Some of these modem/routers are not end user/consumer products and they are expensive.

Tux2
join:2014-05-23
Canada

1 edit

Tux2 to FreeThinker

Member

to FreeThinker
Click for full size
said by FreeThinker:

Thank you for your reply it is of great help.
Would be possible to know what exactly ikanos chipset version is it ?
I would like to confirm something about Ikanos Fusiv Vx180

I am looking for something like this or similar or whatever can be seen.
»lh4.googleusercontent.co ··· 2003.jpg

Another detail that i need is about what firmware and version is the ZyXEL P870M-I1 using.

Open up ZyXEL-P870M-I1-v2 as you requested. Enjoy
Tux2

1 edit

Tux2 to FreeThinker

Member

to FreeThinker
And F/W version:

cpe> 20

BME Reference board API Menu
Ikanos Communications Copyright 2000-2002
Version 1.0.7r45IK105012
=========================================

10) Request Brief Port Status
11) Request Extended Port Status
12) Display Performance Counters
13) Get Near End SNR Margin and Attenuation
20) Display this menu
90) BME Firmware versions
99) Log off
212) Display All Performance Counters

cpe> 90

b1p0 iposDeviceVersion cmdtag 0 status: IN PROGRESS
cpe>
cpe>
b1p0 iposDeviceVersion cmdtag 0 status: COMPLETE
cpe>
BME Firmware Versions
=====================
Firmware-VTU-R:1.0.7r45IK105012 Time Sep 28 2007, 14:17:36
RTOS 1.13.1
BME R:80 AFE<num, ver> <0:e1>
IFE<num:Dev.Rev> <0:225.1>
cpe>

Ian D Allen
If this were easy, everyone would do it.
Premium Member
join:2008-10-26
Ottawa, ON

Ian D Allen to FreeThinker

Premium Member

to FreeThinker
The Sagemcom 2864 also mis-handles DNS requests for unknown domains and times out. It's defective out of the box. Details here:

»[DSL] Sagemcom 2864 DNS time-out on nonexistent domains

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

Thank you for that detail which i was not aware. My sagecom has it's days numbered and it will go.
Right now we have 2 confirmed better and working options for the bell network.
1: SmartRG SR505N
2: ZyXEL P870M-I1

There is also also another option great option that i mentioned before: AVM FRITZ!Box Fon WLAN 7390 (ikanos chipset)
»Re: [DSL] Sagecom 2864-000000-002 vdsl2* (looking for alternative)

Which has been my main preference given the hardware, functionality and versatility including 3rd party free software/firmware but i am still awaiting for feedback from someone about it.

Are you familiar with any of these routers ?
What are you using for yourself and with what type of connection ?

Tux2
join:2014-05-23
Canada

Tux2

Member

said by FreeThinker:

...
Are you familiar with any of these routers ?
...

It's not clear what you are asking about.
reiyu
join:2014-01-08
North York, ON

reiyu to FreeThinker

Member

to FreeThinker
said by FreeThinker:

2: ZyXEL P870M-I1

There is also also another option great option that i mentioned before: AVM FRITZ!Box Fon WLAN 7390 (ikanos chipset)

do you happen to know where i can buy those 2 modems that you mentioned?

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

1 edit

FreeThinker

Member

said by reiyu:

do you happen to know where i can buy those 2 modems that you mentioned?

According to AVM sales they do not export to Canada or have a distributor for such.

As for the ZyXEL P870M-I1 i am looking for it
upNorth
join:2014-09-30

upNorth to FreeThinker

Member

to FreeThinker
FreeThinker,

can you comment on "now waiting to confirm from other sources if i have the 7330.". Is that something anybody can do for their DSL? Can you share how to get this info ?
I am wit Primus DSL and Speedtouch 516 thinking of switching to TS, but would not want to buy an expensive SmartRG if I could get away with a Huawei for half the price...or if I am paying more, get one of the modems you are looking at, like the ZyXEL. TS claims not to be able to tell 7330 or Stinger until after one switches to them.

Also, please do update this thread as you find more info on those modems.

FreeThinker
disgruntled crapsavvy customer
join:2008-10-16
australia

FreeThinker

Member

said by upNorth:

can you comment on "now waiting to confirm from other sources if i have the 7330.". Is that something anybody can do for their DSL? Can you share how to get this info ?

For dsl you can use very much any modem. I was on a stinger before for 6 mbit dsl with a conceptronic 54G wireless router/modem. The problem is VDSL.
said by upNorth:

I am wit Primus DSL and Speedtouch 516 thinking of switching to TS

This modem will work with DSL for teksavvy. I used one with a stinger dslam
said by upNorth:

if I could get away with a Huawei for half the price

You can use an Huawei for any DSL connection with either stingers or 7330 dslams,
or if going for VDSL only if connected to the 7330 DSLAM as far as it goes at the moment as i am aware. Some people are using Huawei with vdsl on a 7330.
said by upNorth:

TS claims not to be able to tell 7330 or Stinger until after one switches to them

That is correct and that is true. They have no way of knowing before it is set or choice to to chose.

If you want to have any idea abou twhat type of dslam you might have; look for the closest to your local/home and check the following topic.
»Bell Canada FTTN/FTTH Cataloging Project / Map

I will post the results of my research later. For now everything i can say is that in order for broadcom chipset based routers to work with stinger dslams; they need custom specific firmware for it which is the case of the smartrg.

Soon i will be testing one new modem and will give feedback later.
FreeThinker

3 edits

FreeThinker

Member

Although it has been a while i still have stuff to post about this topic and the router modem SmartRG that every one loves. To start of when it comes to security this firmware is a pile of crap. It is a quite nice full featured firmware but in regards to security it is bad.

- https where are you ?
- Uses TR-069 which provides an outstanding EXPLOIT (google for TR-069 exploit)
- Uses micro_httpd which is very easy to crash with the browser

More on this topic depending the version; it also has vulnerabilities. (DDOs/DDOS Overflow)
»www.cvedetails.com/vulne ··· tpd.html

There are more details in regards to the security of this firmware that i will keep out of the forum to avoid a mess but for those that are hardcore about this router and firmware, you should do your homework first instead of coming here with puffed chest without having a clue about many thing other than plug the router to the wall (TSI people).

A few other thins about the hardware.

Currently it uses linux kernel 2.6.
It also uses NVRAM to set it's parameters in the shell.
OpenWRT Backfire uses UCI but Whiterussian and Kamikaze use NVRAM.
NVRAM is a thing is the past and typically used with broadcom chips.

The CPU is broadcom
system type            : 963168MBV_17AZZ
processor               : 0
cpu model              : Broadcom4350 V8.0
BogoMIPS             : 399.36
 

The closest to this chip is Actiontec C1000A (CenturyLink)
»wikidevi.com/wiki/Action ··· ryLink29

Then we have other versions of the chip too:
»wikidevi.com/wiki/D-Link ··· _rev_unk
»wikidevi.com/wiki/D-Link ··· B_rev_T1

Although it uses Broadcom4350 V8.0, if anyone nmaps the router it gets the D-Link DLS-2750U ID which tends to use the Broadcom4350 V7.5.

If anyone has an Actiontec C1000A there is a good possibility that it may work with this quasi vdsl2 that bell has over the city and the stinger DSLAM's

I would also not exclude the D-Link DSL-2750U rev unk and D-Link DSL-2750B rev T1 without trying. There is a possibility that the 2750u might work.

Another details in regards to the hardware and cpu is the similar hardware of the ZyXEL P-870HN-5xb
which has been mentioned in the topic a a working & compatible modem/router.

Here is some openwrt info about the ZyXEL and Broadcom4350
»wiki.openwrt.org/toh/zyx ··· 70hn-51b

Similar hardware is also:
Netgear DGN2200 is is supported by openwrt. Although I have doubts if it will work; it will not hurt to try.
»wiki.openwrt.org/toh/net ··· /dgn2200

There are a few other serious details in regards to the firmware that i will be mentioning later should they prove to be what i think they are.