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Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

[Carpentry] Removing a door opening header

My brother-in-law sent me this pic. He has something of a drywall framed door opening between the living room and the hall leading to the front door. It sticks out from the hallway wall about 10" or so, resulting in just 30" of width. Their daughter is going to need to get around the house in a wheel chair, so he wants to remove the framing so that the hallway wall and the living room wall meet at a 90 degree corner. (the end of the living room wall would be just to the right of the removed drywall, and the hallway on the other side runs from there)

My concern is this header. The joists run perpendicular, so I my first thought was that this (I assume double 2x12) is load bearing, but it doesn't seem to have enough support for that. (this the first floor of a 2 story) Which makes me wonder if they just used the 2x12 as a spacer.

In either case, he will need to remove it to put in one long enough to reach a supporting 2x4 up against the wall. My big question is, how would you go about supporting the joists while the 2x12 is being replaced? Build some sort of temporary wall/support next to it? I assume removing enough of the drywall to brace the joists directly rather than having drywall in between?



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

[Carpentry] Re: Removing a door opening header

Probably more than a homeowner job. Well worth it (especially to meet accessibility standards) to have it done properly with an engineer and a bonded contractor. My wife, who works in the field, has seen some horrific messes made when people start modifying homes for accessibility. Do it right the first time and don't do it yourself.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

Unfortunately $ makes hiring it out impossible. They are on a waiting list for goverment assistance, but the current wait time in Indiana is 5 years.

Pher9999
join:2011-07-06
Saucier, MS

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You can support with temp walls on either side, using the drywall or not. And you can run a new LVL to carry the load. But as other say, they need to get someone in to atleast look at it. There are stairs there. Floor loads with stairs and supports can be tricky. The town may have an engineer for building codes to come out and take a look. Given their situation.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

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said by Camelot One:

Unfortunately $ makes hiring it out impossible. They are on a waiting list for goverment assistance, but the current wait time in Indiana is 5 years.

We have had a series of house collapses in Toronto with deaths because people doing it themselves or the contractor is incompetent. I would not touch the job without an engineer looking at it. Taking out the wrong piece in the wrong place would cause the house to become unstable or collapse.

robbin
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join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

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Looks like a pretty easy job. Temporary wall to support the ceiling (no problem leaving the drywall in place) -- both sides if the joists splice above the header. If it were my house, I would just do it. Only adding 10" to that header should not require engineering -- double 2x12 will still support the span. Make sure to glue the new header together with construction adhesive.

To answer one of your questions -- yes, that header is structural and load bearing.

LazMan
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join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

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You're going to need an engineer or architect to help on this one... Sorry.

The header itself is no big deal - 2x12 x 2 is acceptable for about 9'6" - so getting the extra 10" isn't a problem that way.

It's the triple 2x4 (?) post beside it that's concerning me... That's a serious point load; so if he was hoping to knock that out to gain clearance, that's going to be problematic.

Even if he displaces the point load above onto the beam (using an LVL or steel), and installs a new post 10" over in the wall, the point load and footing below will now be in the wrong place.

Time and money can fix all - but this may be a way more involved job then it first appears...
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

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said by robbin:

Looks like a pretty easy job. Temporary wall to support the ceiling (no problem leaving the drywall in place) -- both sides if the joists splice above the header. If it were my house, I would just do it. Only adding 10" to that header should not require engineering -- double 2x12 will still support the span. Make sure to glue the new header together with construction adhesive.

To answer one of your questions -- yes, that header is structural and load bearing.

Not if the trippel 2x stack is transferring load to a post or support of some sort below it. If he moves that over 10" there might not be anything below to support it. This needs to be looked at by an E or at the very least someone who can look into it a lot more then we can from a picture. That header could just as well be fill, its only resting on one 2x so it can't be supporting that much.

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

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robbin

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said by H_T_R_N:

If he moves that over 10" there might not be anything below to support it.

Having lived in Texas my whole life basements are foreign to me. Yes, the support issues must be examined first.

An examination of the area directly below in the basement including framing details of the floor structure should give a good indication of the load on that area of the wall. Similarly the second floor should also be examined in this area and hopefully the attic as well.
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

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going to have to open the wall way more then that to see whats going on.

we did something similar. my framing book indicates 2x10 header is good for 10 feet, 2x12 good for 12' etc, so not sure what some people indicate here

photo's are before and after. we did have to move jacks in the basement to be directly under the supports at the openings

we used 6 of these, with a 2x10 on each side of the ceiling to spread the load while replacing the header
»www.homedepot.com/p/Tige ··· 00022783

worked out good for us
LittleBill

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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

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said by Camelot One:

Unfortunately $ makes hiring it out impossible. They are on a waiting list for goverment assistance, but the current wait time in Indiana is 5 years.

From the dimension of the beams it will take a professional to prevent creating mayhem during and after the renovation. If your brother-in-law is financially challenged there are other agencies than government agencies that may be able to help. Depending on the cause of his daughter's condition, there are charities that specialize in helping those with a specific malady. If his daughter has a case manager they might be able to suggest where to go for assistance. Check out This Old House and other home improvement shows to see if they might be willing to take on this renovation as a project. Your local newspaper or TV Station might direct your brother-in-law to a helping hand. Have him check and see if there is an ARC (Adult Rehabilitation Center) in his area. The Director usually has a list of those agencies that might support such a project.