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to Adalicia
Re: Blizzard officially cancels Titansaid by Adalicia:You keep using subs as your metric. Actuallly I dont, but that is all you seem to gather from my posts. I think I have posted that MMOs are genre that are dying due to lack of return, return is not only subs but cash shop/adverts, etc. I did say that you dont see any major studios investing millions and years into development into new MMOs as a whole because there is a loss of interest in the genre by modern gamers.....look at what is selling or being played: fps, base/civ building games and open world games (minecraft). With the exception of console RPGs like Destiny, it just simply not the genre that gamers are flocking to. |
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 AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
said by Skittles:I did say that you dont see any major studios investing millions and years into development into new MMOs as a whole because there is a loss of interest in the genre by modern gamers..... And yet in just the last year we've had: Neverwinter - Decent player base Defiance - Bad game Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Good player base WildStar - Falling player base The Elder Scrolls Online - Healthy player base Destiny - MMOlite console fun Firefall - Pew pew ArchAge - Who cares Everquest Landmark - Minecraft your MMO beta testing World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Expansion will sell And stuff like Star Citizen, Black Desert, Lineage III, Everquest Next, Elite: Dangerous, etc, looming in the future, RIFT has another expansion getting ready to come out, same with SW:TOR, and there are plenty other examples of a genre that is still putting out titles, that are selling, and turning a profit. Totally a a genre on the brink of death gasping its last breath. |
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Skittles
Premium Member
2014-Sep-29 9:37 am
said by Adalicia:And yet in just the last year we've had:
Neverwinter - Decent player base-not sure what you consider decent but numbers are not good.
Defiance - Bad game
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Asain market and strong fan base
WildStar - Falling player base, fail
The Elder Scrolls Online - not a success at all, look at the numbers
Destiny - MMOlite console fun, console game that I already mentioned as an exception
Firefall - Pew pew
ArchAge - Who cares-exactly
Everquest Landmark - beta does not equal success
World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor - Expansion will sell, will blled subs the next quarter /fixed. and PS: I never said anything about a genre on the brink of death gasping breath bullshit, I said the genre is dying. You are picking at the argument on every angle but the one that seems to matter which is plainly the genre is not as popular as it used to be, it is dying. By metrics such as subs, major innovations in the genre, lack of quality from major studios, it is dying. Will it die...no. There will always be MMOs in one form or another just like we still have emulated Atari/nintendo games and games released based on those styles but as a whole that genre is dying as well. You can make a list of all these "MMOs" to show the genre is not dying but your own list with your own words shows no quality in any of it, nor any great flock to play any of those. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
So edgy. So what I see is if a game isn't Wrath of the Lich King era WoW in terms of population the numbers and community just aren't good, but rather bad in fact. And Asian markets and an existing fan base don't count. Cool. Nevermind the fact that at the time Wrath of the Lich King was at its peak the number of other MMOs out there was signifcantly lower. So, with more MMOs coming out as time went on, expected population shifts, so on and so forth... I mean obviously those other MMOs have garbage numbers and the genre is dying because people left WoW. In order for the MMO market to not be dying, based on what I'm seeing, they all have to be playing one game and that game needs to have players at the same level or better than 2008 Wrath era WoW. A higher number of players dispersed about many games isn't okay. They all have to be playing one. Kay, got it, check. said by Skittles:and PS: I never said anything about a genre on the brink of death gasping breath bullshit, I said the genre is dying.
You are picking at the argument on every angle but the one that seems to matter which is plainly the genre is not as popular as it used to be, it is dying. By metrics such as subs, major innovations in the genre, lack of quality from major studios, it is dying. Will it die...no. There will always be MMOs in one form or another just like we still have emulated Atari/nintendo games and games released based on those styles but as a whole that genre is dying as well.
You can make a list of all these "MMOs" to show the genre is not dying but your own list with your own words shows no quality in any of it, nor any great flock to play any of those. Dying implies death at the end. Finality. Declining implies what you're actually trying to say. Which I still disagree with. The number of games out there and the number of people playing ALL of the games rather than just ONE of the games tells me otherwise. I don't know why you're being so insistent that it is a "dying" market, cause it isn't. I mean, if you need to justify jumping ship or something, go for it, but to say that there aren't MILLIONS of people still playing ALL of these games (rather than MILLIONS of people playing ONLY WoW) you're just being silly. |
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 Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA ·Verizon FiOS
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to Skittles
WoW was like a good fishing spot.
Huge production. Then assholes started to join in. Eventually it's overcrowded and the whole lake is worthless.
MMOs were EQ before WoW came along.
Now there are billion shitty hyped clones that all suck that are splitting subscriber bases. |
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to Adalicia
Actually, not sure why you are getting so pissy Ada. I dont agree with you or your arguments. Cool.
You can take WoW out of the argument and my points still stands. Not sure where WotLK came into this but ok, whatever.
The points tand whether you agree with them or not. The genre is dying (if declining is a better word for you feel free to use it) but it is what it is. WoW is declining/dying just as Everquest, DaoC and Ultima before it...the decline is taking longer but have no doubt it is there.
Also, Im dont need to make an argument to jump ship, when I do it will be because I want to not what the industry or numbers dictate.
Also, your last sentence is laughable, I never said any of that shit, learn to read. |
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 BG5150
join:2008-08-14
New York, NY |
BG5150
Member
2014-Sep-29 12:34 pm
The genre is dieing. |
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 Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state |
Carpie
Member
2014-Sep-29 3:16 pm
said by BG5150:The genre is dieing. ^ Finally someone that gets it. Don't you people know that if you are going to claim anything is dying in this forum that you have to spell it right like BG does here? |
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 NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI |
to Skittles
said by Skittles:Actually, not sure why you are getting so pissy Ada. I dont agree with you or your arguments. Cool.
You can take WoW out of the argument and my points still stands. Not sure where WotLK came into this but ok, whatever.
The points tand whether you agree with them or not. The genre is dying (if declining is a better word for you feel free to use it) but it is what it is. WoW is declining/dying just as Everquest, DaoC and Ultima before it...the decline is taking longer but have no doubt it is there.
Also, Im dont need to make an argument to jump ship, when I do it will be because I want to not what the industry or numbers dictate.
Also, your last sentence is laughable, I never said any of that shit, learn to read. First off, there is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. Just because someone has a different point of view doesn't mean they are getting "pissy" with you. Secondly, I do think that MMORPGs are merely shifting around subs. I really don't think that the subs are declining. In fact, if you factor in all the F2P MMORPGs out there, I believe there are more people playing MMORPGs today than have ever played them. There are simply many more choices out there. The new entries into the MMORPG market have got to plan for lower numbers and bank on keeping their subscribers in anyway possible. Gone are the days when MMORPGs could enter the market with millions and people would stick around. Keeping that initial sub base is easier with some games than others I will admit. I think Blizzard just got to the point where they did the math and acknowledged that they weren't going to be able to get the sub numbers they needed to make the project massively successful. Oh, and to correct you on one of the games you commented on. Elder Scrolls Online is sitting on 775,000 subs as of a couple months ago, and with no outside licensing costs to concern themselves about, they are doing quite well. A vast majority of the sub money that comes in is pure profit. This is why ESO is doing better than Star Wars which had double the subs at launch but couldn't make money because of the high licensing costs. In the end, there is much more to an MMORPG than just sub numbers. EvE online has almost 500,000 subs right now and makes a tidy profit. |
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Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state |
to Bradzor
If I were to ever play another MMORPG other than WoW (which I won't because WoW is already far too great of a time sink and if I ever stop playing it it will be to regain a life), I would try Eve. |
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to Nightfall
my pissy comment wasnt if reference to his difference in opinion but was in response to his : "don't know why you're being so insistent that it is a "dying" market, cause it isn't. I mean, if you need to justify jumping ship or something, go for it, but to say that there aren't MILLIONS of people still playing ALL of these games (rather than MILLIONS of people playing ONLY WoW) you're just being silly." I dont care if he doesnt agree with me, conversely, he doesnt care if I agree with him, we were just debating the issue. No need for all that shit above. I dont think I was impolite with him at any point during this so I dont think all that was warranted. Also, according to the US digital games market repot for september 2014: combined digital sales down 2% month-over-month since August. DLC for digital console gaming is driving the market. » www.superdataresearch.co ··· -market/ |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI |
said by Skittles:I dont care if he doesnt agree with me, conversely, he doesnt care if I agree with him, we were just debating the issue. No need for all that shit above. I dont think I was impolite with him at any point during this so I dont think all that was warranted. I read the same comment and didn't see why you were upset with what he said. Its fine though, I get it. I believe that all of us should try to rise above making comments like that. Two wrongs don't make a right, and there is no sense to bring the thread into a flame war. Just my .02 cents. Back on topic.... said by Skittles:Also, according to the US digital games market repot for september 2014:
combined digital sales down 2% month-over-month since August. DLC for digital console gaming is driving the market.
»www.superdataresearch.co ··· -market/ I really would like to see some data on MMORPG subscribers and how the total population is dying like you are saying. So far, I haven't found anything with any accurate numbers. What we can say by the amount of MMORPGs out there right now is that there are many people playing them. The big difference is the amount of choices out there. Back in the day, WoW was the big boy on the block. Today, there are hundreds of MMORPGs to choose from. Many of them are quality games as well. |
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 GorkOu812ic
join:2001-10-06
Bountiful, UT |
to Mike
said by Mike:WoW was like a good fishing spot. I think this is the most concise yet accurate description of the reason WoW is losing subs that I've ever read. |
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 DarkLogixTexan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX |
to Mike
said by Mike:WoW was like a good fishing spot.
Huge production. Then assholes started to join in. Eventually it's overcrowded and the whole lake is worthless.
MMOs were EQ before WoW came along.
Now there are billion shitty hyped clones that all suck that are splitting subscriber bases. And blizz is pouring in junk fish to make the new comers happy. |
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AdaliciaOm Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE |
to Gork
said by Gork:said by Mike:WoW was like a good fishing spot. I think this is the most concise yet accurate description of the reason WoW is losing subs that I've ever read. I think one thing people tend to forget, kind of, is the WoW is going to be 10 years old. I mean, people know that, they don't really forget that, but I think the average person kind of forgets exactly what that means. Ten years is quite a long time. In theory someone could have started playing WoW, got married, had a kid, and now that kid could easily be playing WoW and pulling top DPS on his Huntard in between bouts of spamming "(Anal) Aimed Shot" in Trade. The player base has literally grown up around the game. Priorities change, people do get married, have kids, get real jobs. I know I could dedicate several hours a night to raiding but I don't want to. Other aspects of my life are more important. There are other people that just flat can't. And of course, there are people that can and do. For people like me, playing WoW is just a way to relax and unwind. I don't give a shit about server firsts on raid content. I don't care about having the best gear. All that shit went away for me right around Cataclysm when my life suddenly shifted in a different direction. These days I'd rather go achievement hunting, maybe doing a dungeon or two, farm some rep, play Poke'Mon, whatever. Something that doesn't require an obscene amount of "right now" time. But for other people, that isn't the case for better or worse. But I do think the analogy itself is actually quite good. |
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That hunter was in my group yesterday, int and str gear and no pet out. |
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to Bradzor
They just wanted to be a smarter and stronger Hunter. |
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 SixOfNineBrake In A Ladylike Manner.
Premium Member
join:2001-08-30
Sterling, VA |
to Lothario
said by Lothario:That hunter was in my group yesterday, int and str gear and no pet out. Some things never change. |
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to Lothario
said by Lothario:That hunter was in my group yesterday, int and str gear and no pet out. Hunter gear. |
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 Kulldar
Premium Member
join:2008-11-11
Warren, MI |
to Adalicia
This is why MMO's have died in my current social gaming group. At one time about 20 of my local friends all played WOW together. Very few of us still have the time to sink into an MMO. We're all excited to attempt a return for WOD but I wonder how long that will last. |
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GorkOu812ic
join:2001-10-06
Bountiful, UT |
to Adalicia
said by Adalicia:The player base has literally grown up around the game. Priorities change, people do get married, have kids, get real jobs. While I cannot argue your point, I can say that in general the population of humans on Earth is increasing. This means, in theory, there should be more of an influx of younger people available to play the game than those of us aging folk with priorities taking us away from the game. Because of this I'd tend to think there is something within the game itself which is pushing people away. Our little forum is proof positive that there are many reasons people quit or slow down their time in Azeroth, but the analogy referred to seems to me to cover a broad spectrum of those reasons. |
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 vic
@66.165.177.x |
vic
Anon
2014-Oct-1 7:35 am
said by Gork:While I cannot argue your point, I can say that in general the population of humans on Earth is increasing. This means, in theory, there should be more of an influx of younger people available to play the game than those of us aging folk with priorities taking us away from the game. Because of this I'd tend to think there is something within the game itself which is pushing people away. Yes, there are more people entering the world of gaming every day, but there are also a ton of more options for them. Back when WoW began, your choices were to keep playing Everquest (loser, get with the times) or Ultima (major loser, really need to get with it) or play WoW. If you weren't on board with one of those, you weren't playing an MMO. Now there are all the different MMO flavors, the FPS games, the farmville-easque stuff on both PC and mobile, etc. Sure, for every gamer that leaves WoW, there are ten kids just getting into gaming, but 5 of them do only console games, 3 are playing on their tablets all day, and the other two have a dozen legit MMO's to choose from. It isn't that Blizz is pushing people away, it's that they can't possibly be expected to hold such a huge percentage of the gaming market anymore. |
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Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state |
to Gork
Also just because the WORLD population may be increasing, it is important to understand WHERE it is growing (as well as where it is declining) and understand it's impact on the game subscription base.
Often we tend to just thing of 'Murica and while I've not actually gone back through the census numbers, I would not be surprised if the birth rate has actually been dropping over the past twenty years. Whereas in other Developing countries the birth rate is probably increasing year over year (as well as the player base). |
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to Kulldar
While the group I play with is a lot smaller, we still get together at least once a week to play. We are all past WOW veterans(having played WOW on and off since beta. We all played DAOC in the day and I played Asheron's Call).
These days tho, we just can't stay hooked on any one title anymore. We have been through Champion's Online(there's one for ya), Star Trek Online, SWTOR, LOTRO, TESO and now playing The Secret World(and tiring of it), as well as some of us have returned to SWTOR.
It's not the time that we have, since we only do it one or two days a week, it's that we just can't stay interested anymore. We all get to a certain point and just get bored since, in a way, it's all the same.
As mentioned above, the genre is stale and needs something, but unfortunately, nobody has figured out exactly what that "something" is. |
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