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SgtAkbar
join:2014-09-25

SgtAkbar

Member

Uverse Retention - Walking Into a Trap?

Yesterday I called up ATT to either get a better deal or cancel. It had been too long and TWC was offering a better rate and a free laptop. I happily end the call with about $50/month in savings, faster internet, and another wireless receiver just for sticking with ATT. In genera Uverse has been good to me.

Because the internet was faster she said (going from 24 to 45) I needed a new router/residential gateway. We set the appointment for next Monday. No mention is made of new wiring or anything other than a plug n play install. And the hardware and install would be free.

I get home and my wife is complaining we have no internet. I reset the router as you have to do sometimes, and I get nothing. Internet, TV, and Home Phone are totally out. I'm off the grid!

2 tech calls later last night and I have a tech coming to my house today (supposedly by 4pm) to "look into the problem". "The visit is free unless they would have to fix any broken wiring inside of your house". "Fortunately or Unfortunately, someone else in your area has the same problem" (wtf?)

11pm last night: I find the following post. It's all too coincidental. »forums.att.com/t5/U-vers ··· /4051488
TL;DR he is making the same jump up to 45mbps and coincidentally lost internet.

My question is this: Why would you brick the router of the person that just threatened to cancel? With 6 days until the "real" install is scheduled, I have to take more time out of my day to play a dog n pony show? Man up and charge me if I really need a new wire.

I will report back. If the person that shows up has to drop in a new wire that costs me money A) I might just call att and (attempt to) cancel on the spot while he's standing there and B) why IN H#$^ couldn't you just pull this nonsense the day of install?

Has anyone else seen this, is this a common scam? It's absolutely lawsuit level stuff.

rolande
Certifiable
MVM,
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
ARRIS BGW210-700
Cisco Meraki MR42

rolande

MVM,

said by SgtAkbar:

Why would you brick the router of the person that just threatened to cancel?

Doubtful that is what they did. It is likely the order was submitted incorrectly into the system. Because you are switching from a single pair to a pair bonded connection and likely going to be moved to new ports, the old port has to be disconnected. It is like they put in the disconnect order without it being dependent upon the upgrade order.

You're not the first person this has happened to. It is a problem with the people and processes handling the ordering and not jiving with how it is technically executed. You would think that they would have this figured out by now how not to piss off a customer and have checks in place to catch this stuff.
J_Goldrich
join:2014-09-25

J_Goldrich to SgtAkbar

Member

to SgtAkbar
The 45mbps speed requires a "bonded pair" line which mandates a service call. They actually use two lines combined into one to deliver that speed. You also must upgrade the router to a NVG589.
SgtAkbar
join:2014-09-25

1 recommendation

SgtAkbar

Member

update1: Tech arrived 1.5 hrs after the window, which might've bugged me but they gave updates via text message. Anyway.

I told him my theory, he kind of gulped and went to work around the house and in backyard. He ended up leaving the house and going down the street to the splice box as he called it for about an hour. Luckily he was a good tech. Confident and willing to listen to me, stop and think for a moment, and ask questions.

He returns, runs a few checks and we turn on the tv - it's working.

He said down at the splice box I was on the wrong ports. Assuming that refers to my old service vs new service. When the order went through, it was disconnected without the dependency of the upgrade happening first.

Definitely a situation of a massive lumbering machine, too many moving parts. I wonder how much of it is automated, or perhaps even the way the retention agent had to enter it into her computer to align the deal she gave me. Who knows? There are a lot of failure points so I can't exactly stay angry

At any rate ATT was highly attentive once the wheels got moving, and I'll be happy once Monday is over and the upgrade is complete.

TLDR; Long story short, he fixes the cable.

rolande
Certifiable
MVM,
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
ARRIS BGW210-700
Cisco Meraki MR42

rolande

MVM,

Glad they made it right. Something that you think should be so simple for a company to manage becomes a complete mess because of all the regulated separation between the wiring infrastructure and the services infrastructure organizations. It makes it a difficult task for the order entry people to properly manage. The government helped regulate them into the awkward mess they are. No excuses, but I do believe they try to do the best they can with the broken system they are forced to endure.
SgtAkbar
join:2014-09-25

SgtAkbar

Member

update2: Monday Install!

I took a half day off work to wait for their arrival (2-4pm)

Having texted with the prior tech so I would know when he would arrive, I thought the same thing would happen this time. 2pm passes, 3pm passes, 3:45 comes with an automated message: "We might not make it by 4pm but we'll be there by 6"
4 pm passes, 5pm passes...5:30pm passes..I send a tweet to the uversebot I've been dealing with. Nothing.

You might imagine my surprise when NO ONE SHOWED UP!

But alas, it's my fault! I was in the backyard when apparently at 4:45 someone did show up and ring my doorbell. I did not hear this. They left a note on the door that I need to reschedule the install. Spent 6-7pm on the phone trying to get someone to come back out. I have no more time off.

Great times! /facepalm
SgtAkbar

SgtAkbar

Member

Update 3: Doom

Took off work again and waited. Tech showed up at 3pm. Left at 7:45pm.
Service is off.
Phone, internet, and tv.
Next appointment was created by the tech for 3 DAYS FROM NOW.

Att: die in a fire. You are fucking up my life.
ramsaso
Premium Member
join:2014-01-04
Houston, TX
ARRIS SB6183

ramsaso

Premium Member

Typical of them to not care about the customer except their greed.
Of course, they care about advertising in my daughter's school yearbook but not the services.

Why'd you think they increased POTS prices last year (and the year before that and the year before that... and on, and on, and on...) and on DSL and U-Verse month-2-month?
Ripperjack
join:2012-01-12
Fredericksburg, TX

Ripperjack to J_Goldrich

Member

to J_Goldrich
said by J_Goldrich:

The 45mbps speed requires a "bonded pair" line which mandates a service call.

That's not what I was told by the customer service rep, when I inquired about going from 24 to 45Mbit. They just said... and I quote...

"We'll send you a new modem, just plug it in and you are good to go."

Well I did get the modem and I did plug it in, but I wasn't going anywhere.

Finally when a tech reinally arrived to fix the problem, I told him my story. He rolled his eyes and said that such and upgrade ALWAYS needs a tech install as they have to rewire the connection.

24Mbit is single bonded (using 2 wires), 45Mbit is dual bonded (used 2 pairs of 2 wires), so my house needed new wiring from the AT&T box and I was good to go after that.

Customer Service are a bunch of bloody wankers!

rolande
Certifiable
MVM,
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
ARRIS BGW210-700
Cisco Meraki MR42

rolande

MVM,

said by Ripperjack:

That's not what I was told by the customer service rep, when I inquired about going from 24 to 45Mbit. They just said... and I quote...

"We'll send you a new modem, just plug it in and you are good to go."

They are just script readers (scripts are missing any real detailed info) and half the time they just make stuff up to sound like they know what they are talking about and get you off the phone. You aren't the first and definitely won't be the last.
Jaghar
join:2001-01-30
Painesville, OH

Jaghar to SgtAkbar

Member

to SgtAkbar
Sad to say, but this has been typical of my experience with at&t also when anything stops working properly. When the service works, it's pretty darn nice. When it breaks and you need support, prepare to be treated like it's a privilege to get any support at all. I have never ever had a pleasant service call.
SgtAkbar
join:2014-09-25

SgtAkbar

Member

Update 4: Shock and Awe Shucks

This actually happened about a week ago I guess. Once again, we take off of work and wait. Two guys showed up and worked for some time. They finished the actual install. Their boss even showed up for a high five or two. All left cards, " call me if anything happens"
sure.

1st night things were ok but jittery. "the line is still rough we'll send another outside tech but you're ready to go".
2nd night - things more jittery
3rd night - connection dead as a door nail.

Update 5 will be about the guy that came 2 nights ago. Awesome fella, too bad he was here for 5 hours and it quit working 10 minutes after he left.

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

rtfm to J_Goldrich

Member

to J_Goldrich
said by J_Goldrich:

The 45mbps speed requires a "bonded pair" line which mandates a service call. They actually use two lines combined into one to deliver that speed. You also must upgrade the router to a NVG589.

Iffen I was making the protocol, I'd have it fall back to one pair but STILL WORK. This is how EoC functions, sigh....

brookeKrige
join:2012-11-05
San Jose, CA

brookeKrige

Member

said by rtfm:

Iffen I was making the protocol, I'd have it fall back to one pair but STILL WORK. This is how EoC functions, sigh....

So it does, can do full Power on one pair. Did I misinterpret your post?
»Question about u-verse power tier

TestBoy
Premium Member
join:2009-10-13
Irmo, SC

TestBoy

Premium Member

It seems that it is possible to get it working on one pair.. but it's got to be a really good pair.
This is obviously not a configuration that they support or condone.

What I am wondering is if you can get power working on a single pair for those close to the VRAD, why not do it on a single pair to free up ports?

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

rtfm

Member

said by TestBoy:

What I am wondering is if you can get power working on a single pair for those close to the VRAD, why not do it on a single pair to free up ports?

Reliability, I'd guess. If 1 pair is marginal, better to have some extra bits.

my thoughts
@24.209.161.x

my thoughts to TestBoy

Anon

to TestBoy
What I am wondering is if you can get power working on a single pair for those close to the VRAD, why not do it on a single pair to free up ports?

Future proof... Those that can currently receive Power on a bonded pair are those that will be able to receive Power Plus (75) and Power Turbo (100) when released with 17a / vectoring, if willing to pay.

Those currently not able to receive Power should be able, once 17a / vectoring released, maybe on one port but would expect bonded.

Wisconsin has been installing modified NIDS with ATT BRANDED JACKs since mid August aimed specific at future proof bonded and extending the NID reach (home run/Brand Jack) to RG... Allowing for SELT testing up to RG as part of testing outside plant. The Midwest (old Ameritech) should all be on board mid October.
This adds about 20 minutes to install, modifying NID, installing/testing Branded Jack, which includes a back feed for VoIP but any additional wires run (Ethernet) will require a separate wall plate or biscuit.

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

rtfm

Member

{Why use 2 pairs?}
said by my thoughts :

Wisconsin has been installing modified NIDS with ATT BRANDED JACKs since mid August aimed specific at future proof bonded and extending the NID reach (home run/Brand Jack) to RG... Allowing for SELT testing up to RG as part of testing outside plant. The Midwest (old Ameritech) should all be on board mid October.
This adds about 20 minutes to install, modifying NID, installing/testing Branded Jack, which includes a back feed for VoIP but any additional wires run (Ethernet) will require a separate wall plate or biscuit.

The SELT term seems to be new, but telcos have manually and automagically tested loops for decades. I used to have 20+ LMC's I was responsible for, and to that end, took a case of beer to the Central Office test board crew every Christmas. It meant the craft folks would talk to me when I called. They had a huge meter that displayed 3-4 flavors of bridges (as in Whetstone, not packet-pushing) for measuring line resistance, capacitance and leakage.

Further, when She installed a jack where there would often be no phone, such as dockside in a marina; the installer would put a RC network inside the jack - this allowed loop testing up to the jack.

I'm curious about this "Branded Jack" which sounds similar, but to be pedantic, that's more DELT than SELT.

T1 lines always have a "Smart-Jack" which is DELT; the tester sends the magic sequence and it goes into loopback so they can run error tests etc. So it's about time they did so on *DSL loops as well.
l_user
join:2014-10-23

l_user

Member

SELT is the name of a line quality test ran from the DSLAM towards the prem.
Branded jack provides a loop back when nothing is plugged into it.

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

rtfm

Member

By definition, SELT should not need anything at the far end.

SELT & DELT - FAQ

In general, SELT is more useful for pre-installation loop qualification because the remote end need not be connected. It can be used for loop diagnostics when the loop impairment is so severe that DELT can't be used because of load coils or a short.

But DELT is more useful when both ends are connected because it provides better loop diagnostics and more detailed information. DELT requires a modification to the CPE (Customer Premises Equipment) splitter and/or modem to allow for O SP (Outside Plant) termination. The negative side of DELT is that it is dependent upon upgrading the customer site which is more difficult for the service provider to control. The positive aspect of DELT is that it can provide more accurate test measurements


This BRANDED JACK sounds like it's there to enable DELT testing; that makes sense.
{Almost anything that avoids/shortens a truck roll makes economic sense to a wireline carrier....}

menah menah
@107.77.72.x

menah menah

Anon

The branded jack is installed now in most territories for copper installation protocol. Testing purposes are for a 2 part SELT test. First part is open when just a phone cord is plugged in to open the pins on the jack. Second part is with nothing in the jack which the pins are then in a closed terminated position for the module to complete a closed loop test. This is also being used so voip and pots services are properly backfed to the NID to be used with the existing homes wiring for phone. Education process for techs on this type of install were started Q1 this year and we're in trial launch in multiple markets until beginning of this month it went live for all.

rtfm
join:2005-07-09
Washington, DC

rtfm

Member

So what is inside the Branded Jack?

I see a conflict on terms; what have read of SELT is built around unterminated loops, or ones where you don't know what's out there. DELT however, requires a known termination.
l_user
join:2014-10-23

l_user

Member

a spring that shorts the circuit when nothing is plugged in...