dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
5128
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Re: CRTC wholesale mobile wireless services hearings on now

CRTC has to rule in favour of the current new entrants && just as importantly - in favour of not placing barriers to entry for anyone else who wants to become a "new new' entrant at ANY point in time down the road.

It's pretty clear that the CRTC does not understand problem abstraction very well.

creed3020
Premium Member
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON

creed3020 to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
Wow I missed Bell and look at all the catch up on the thread I need to do!! That number of posts is a dead giveaway Bhell was up to spread their vision for the future.
creed3020

creed3020 to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
Menzies just said one jigabyte

Damm he just did it again!
bklass
Premium Member
join:2012-02-06
Canada

1 recommendation

bklass to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
Dude, Menzies actually just said Jigabyte.
bklass

bklass to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
The real question is though: how many jigawatts does it take to keep a tower running? Does that double when MVNO's attach to the tower and start sucking profits out of the incumbents?
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by bklass:

The real question is though: how many jigawatts does it take to keep a tower running? Does that double when MVNO's attach to the tower and start sucking profits out of the incumbents?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· RUvX2D0E
bklass
Premium Member
join:2012-02-06
Canada

bklass

Premium Member

1.21 eh? That sounds about right.

creed3020
Premium Member
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON

creed3020 to bklass

Premium Member

to bklass
I'm not crazy, I did hear that! wow....
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

In the PIAC presentation - What gets me is that Bell makes a statement about the 'failure' of the European market vs-a-vis capex, and throws some numbers in. Unless somebody else comes along with numbers, the CRTC does no research of its own to either confirm or refute the number Bell states. Ergo, any lie Bell tells stands.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

PIAC are being dicks - wishy washy support for MVNO's.

CRTC will seize on this 'respected' organization and say that consumers don't support MVNO's - ignoring the fact that Bell IS a defacto MVNO in Sakatchewan & MB. CRTC will also do a retail minus roaming price.

Game, set & match to the incumbents.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Blais - Competition is not an end in of itself.

Yes, you could get quality, service, price, features via a NATIONALIZED system that only raised prices in direct linkage to either CPI or actual cost increases - whichever is less.

BUT when you get commercial interests - which are governed by the CORPORATIONS ACT - and have a duty to increase profits for shareholders, then you get abuses of the public good.

creed3020
Premium Member
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON

creed3020 to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
It does not seem to be going well for PIAC.... I'm even confused what they stand for. Might need to read their submitted documents to even get the point.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Hey Blais - Cantel & Bell networks sucked the big one for years.
Don't shit on the new entrants for all the obstacles they have faced in just 5 years - none of which the indumbents faced.

Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs to creed3020

Premium Member

to creed3020
said by creed3020:

It does not seem to be going well for PIAC.... I'm even confused what they stand for. Might need to read their submitted documents to even get the point.

I agree.
I'm not sure they are moving any point of view forward.

EUS
Kill cancer
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
"Gigs" are pronounced "jigs" to the French, is Menzies French?

creed3020
Premium Member
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON

1 edit

creed3020

Premium Member

I'm pretty sure he has said gigabyte correctly in previous presentations. He's just channeling his inner mumblehurtz here I think.
creed3020

creed3020 to bklass

Premium Member

to bklass
said by bklass:

The real question is though: how many jigawatts does it take to keep a tower running? Does that double when MVNO's attach to the tower and start sucking profits out of the incumbents?

If an MNVO regime gets approved I'm worried what the cost to new entrants will be. The incumbents will be the ones sucking out the profits...

This hearing is sure an edge of the seat ordeal.

I completely missed Bibic's presentation so that is on my agenda tonight I hope.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

1 recommendation

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by creed3020:

I completely missed Bibic's presentation so that is on my agenda tonight I hope.

Wear a garland of garlic, and have some wooden stakes and siver bullets handy while you watch. You'll need them.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to MaynardKrebs

MVM

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Bell say their worst nightmares are:

Mandated MVNO
Mandated wholesale
Ex-ante price setting for tower sharing and a couple other things I missed.

Mandated wholesale is already required by law (via the mandated wholesale roaming rates). It's just that the rates aren't low enough to make it practical to run an MVNO on.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

1 recommendation

MaynardKrebs to creed3020

Premium Member

to creed3020
said by creed3020:

If an MNVO regime gets approved I'm worried what the cost to new entrants will be. The incumbents will be the ones sucking out the profits...

Yep. If the CRTC gets this wrong it'll be as costly in its own way to any/all new entrants who want to be pure wireless plays (ie. anyone not big enough who has something the indumbents want) as the CRTC letting Wind et. al try to negotiate roaming on reasonable commercial terms back in 2008.

The CRTC has to realize that their role MUST be to rein in the excesses of the indumbents - and that will necessarily require a reduction in the indumbents profits from excessive levels to merely normal levels.

Only in that way can "Krebs Wireless - We'll service you up the wazoo, as opposed to 'servicing' your wazoo" ever get off the ground.
bklass
Premium Member
join:2012-02-06
Canada

bklass to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
I'm not sure I agree - CRTC asked PIAC for evidence on consumer views, asked for evidence. I think JPB's wants to know if there is a balance to be found between "short term gain for long term pain" and that there is such a balance. Hopefully CRTC will see that MVNO can balance network investment risk against need for service innovation b/w competing providers.
bklass

bklass to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
I was unable to answer this question when posed by Molnar. Should have offered to do an undertaking but didn't have the wherewithal. Will be in my thoughts and work now though and hope to get to bottom of this issue.
bklass

bklass to creed3020

Premium Member

to creed3020
said by creed3020:

If an MNVO regime gets approved I'm worried what the cost to new entrants will be. The incumbents will be the ones sucking out the profits...

The question dovetails with one that Pentefountas posed as well: Is a third set of facilities the socially optimal approach?

Do we want to keep duplicating facilities in order to pursue facilities based competitors, at a greater social cost, or should we look at two sets of competing facilities as optimal and impose social obligations to cooperate in their use?
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by bklass:

Do we want to keep duplicating facilities in order to pursue facilities based competitors, at a greater social cost, or should we look at two sets of competing facilities as optimal and impose social obligations to cooperate in their use?

When the owners of the two sets of facilities act as bullies and thumb their noses at the regulator & society on an almost daily basis, then yes the bully needs to be battered about the head & buttocks until their behaviour is modified.
fmradio68
join:2013-07-05
Montreal, QC

fmradio68 to creed3020

Member

to creed3020
Though I agree in part with this, I don't think the CRTC should coddle the new entrants. There is much better pricing with MVNOs in other countries. Even New Entrants are not cheap.

In Quebec with BYOD
Bell 6GB plan $75
Videotron $72 and this is only very recently.Videotron was charging $80

Lycamobile in US is $55 5GB
Orange UK $55 5GB

these prices are on par with the Koodo Manitoba prices. I don't think the New Entrants, ESPECIALLY the 3Play Telcos will lower their prices to the level MVNOs would.

Mr Mutter
@5.135.176.x

Mr Mutter

Anon

fmradio68, You like those prices in Montreal, Quebec? I think it's way over inflated when over in Gatineau, Quebec, you can get better for 35$ from Wind.

You would not like Wind in Montreal?
35$ versus 72$ with BYOD?

If we listen to what the big 3 stated, that 72$ cost brings you reliability and quality. In the Eu they don't have quality services. Just saying....

@BenKlass

I'm just going to mutter to myself. I haven't thought anything through. Nothing but muttering off the top of my head in reply to what you stated above:

Ben Sez:
Do we want to keep duplicating facilities in order to pursue facilities based competitors, at a greater social cost, or should we look at two sets of competing facilities as optimal and impose social obligations to cooperate in their use?
=========

This exercise was conducted with wireline. The whole point of allowing wholesale (or leeching, depending on who you ask) way back when was so that these (then) new start-ups could raise the funds to compete. Years later the CRTC and Chairman KvF called wholesale a failure. It did not produce the outcome expected and anticipated in the ruling that allowed wholesale in the first place.

The costs to duplicate facilities is just too expensive, too much regulatory red-tape, and/or the start-ups just got too cushy with wholesale as it is (depends on who you ask).

With wireless, are the (now) new start-ups doomed to the same fate (cost and cushiness)? I think so. At most a consortium will emerge as a new 4th player (if that ever happens). And it will only be players industry Canada allows due to "national security" issues (as was the case with the Wind backers and Allstream). More than just "wireless forces" at play here in the grand scheme of things. Even if Winds backers changed the (financial?) transaction or structure, Industry Canada stated it would be denied.

But it seemed Industry Canada would allow Verizon in, and allow them to buy backbone as a 4th player. That says something.

Would facilities (or even the purchasing of existing facilities to become a 4th player, or stronger competitor) pan out? Industry Canada already said no. But it all depends who controls the company financially it appears.

And then there is the equipment used, speculation is that Industry Canada nix'd the sale due to Huawei Technologies gear being used @ wind, and in use by the financial backers of Wind.

So facilities....
1) not just costs and deployment issues
2) financial backers and structure (seems there is a secret Gov approval/disapproval issue on this)
3) gear used (seems there is a secret Gov approval/disapproval issue on this). Yet Bell uses same Technology as the argument went.

Not an easy question. No easy answer. But based on what I have seen to date, mainly due to other factors, and other telecom regulations (and also secret regulations), the later part of your question is the most likely outcome.

Even if new players came in, other forces, aside from market forces, would negate them from ever expanding to a facility based national competitor. Thus forced cushiness and (faux) forced competition (as with wireline) is the inevitable outcome unless a Canadian (or Canadian-American) consortium emerges.

New MVNO's that could come in need to pay attention to what happened with Wind and their backers, then say to themselves, could this happen to me? Thus, imo, cushiness in wholesale would be their game, and all parties know this (in the case of Gov and any players with any foreign backing).

It's not just the forces of the big 3 at play. There are (secret) regulatory forces (and red-tape) at play as well. And the cost associated with that, which is big and make investment an uncertainty. Many players could come in knowing they are not going to go further, regardless of what they state, or what the gov states. Forces out of reach of the CRTC, regardless of what they rule on.

Just muttering to myself as I think about what you wrote, and what we have already seen. Nothing more.

Cheers
fmradio68
join:2013-07-05
Montreal, QC

fmradio68

Member

Mr Mutter,
You misunderstood my post. I did not say that I like the Quebec pricing. ON THE CONTRARY!!! Those prices are high when you consider they are BYOD prices. I find the Quebec prices outrageous.

Yes I would LOVE Wind but we all know Quebecor overpaid to bloack them out. Videotron is more reliable than Wind but for the Price Wind charges I'd be happy!

Videotron has been increasing prices for awhile now. To be honest they were not cheaper than the Big 3 when they launched. They gain ed all the customers they could from their cable TV subscriber base tehn it stalled. Then in May of 2013 they started offering $60 6GB plans.This lasted for 8 months. Now those plans are $80 but Canada-Wide. The thing is, that most Quebecers don't use the Roaming outside Quebec so it's like a $20 increase.
bklass
Premium Member
join:2012-02-06
Canada

bklass to Guspaz

Premium Member

to Guspaz
mandated roaming does not include resale (MVNO) - and roaming does not allow carriers to sell outside their deployed footprint.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

1 recommendation

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by bklass:

mandated roaming does not include resale (MVNO) - and roaming does not allow carriers to sell outside their deployed footprint.

Yet we heard today that through CRTC counsel's questions that Bell solicits customers in Saskatchewan where they are an MVNO - Bell has no towers there.

As is customary, Bell speaks out of both sides of its mouth and anal orifice at the same time.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

Agenda for Friday

Quebecor Media Inc. (int. #30)
Vaxination Informatique (int. #32)

@JF
If there's a person sitting right behind you when you present, it's a Bell hit man.