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exocet_cm
Writing
Premium Member
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY

exocet_cm

Premium Member

[Education] License question about EoL products

A few of us were discussing licensing for products that have been EoL'd by their manufacturer. For example, vCenter heartbeat and vCenter Storage Appliance are both (or will soon be) EoL'd by VMware. My stance was "No, it originally cost to license so it still costs."
If the product is not longer made, does it become free?
If licenses cannot be purchased, but a new model of the product is incompatible, is the end use just SOL?

Looking for opinions and, if possible, anything backed by law.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

Camelot One

MVM

I would think from a legal standpoint, it is a body of work, and the sale (or not) is controlled entirely by the creator. VMWare isn't required to provide support for their products, so reaching EOL doesn't make a difference to the law. If they decide to stop selling/licensing it, that is their choice, and in no way makes their product public domain.

But that is the legal side. The manufacturer has abandoned the work. If it happens to be the version that works in your environment, give it a go. But I have rather loose morals when it comes to no-longer-sold software.
JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL

JoelC707 to exocet_cm

Premium Member

to exocet_cm
said by exocet_cm:

If the product is not longer made, does it become free?

This is a common argument from people who download Windows illegally. They believe that because things like Windows 2003 or older are no longer produced (or have downgrade rights, as I think since you can downgrade to 2008 IIRC, it would still be considered "produced") or are "out of copyright" it should be free for the taking.

It's honestly the copyright part of it that matters. Since copyright lasts damn near forever for a company they basically still own it for all time and it will never be free unless they say it is.
said by exocet_cm:

If licenses cannot be purchased, but a new model of the product is incompatible, is the end use just SOL?

Sadly, this is mostly a yes. But the reality of this is a little different. Are you looking at it from a new customer perspective or an existing customer that still has licenses? A new customer is most definitely SOL. An existing customer it depends on the language in the license agreement. If it's a maintenance contract you're paying for to use the program, you're technically supposed to stop using it once you quit paying for it. If it's something you paid for one time then unless there is something in the license agreement stating you must discontinue use then go ahead and use it to your heart's content. Honestly though, if that's how greedy they want to be (essentially taking back something you paid for) I'd demand a refund.

Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

Kilroy to exocet_cm

MVM

to exocet_cm
said by exocet_cm:

If the product is not longer made, does it become free?

No, unless the creator makes it so.
said by exocet_cm:

If licenses cannot be purchased, but a new model of the product is incompatible, is the end use just SOL?

Pretty much. This is why you start looking/pushing users towards another product before this is an issue. This always is a battle with users as the products are usually very expensive and they see what they have as working. A lot of this had this experience getting users to go from XP to Windows 7 and having to upgrade or replace applications.

Normally our tactic was three pronged.

1. Yes it is working fine now.
2. Yes we understand that it is expensive.
3. How much will it cost you if it breaks and then you need to find a replacement?

Steve
I know your IP address

join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA

Steve

Here, let me fix this for you
said by Kilroy:

3. How much will it cost you if it breaks and then you need to find a replacement in a hurry?


Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

Kilroy

MVM

I've never worked for any place where in a hurry applied to purchasing a solution, especially an expensive solution. I consider a hurry to be less than a week. Spending tens of thousands of dollars don't normally happen in less than a month, unless you get all of the powers that be together on the same page. That's forgetting all about finding a solution in the first place.

Steve
I know your IP address

join:2001-03-10
Tustin, CA

Steve

said by Kilroy:

I've never worked for any place where in a hurry applied to purchasing a solution

I was referring to the hurry of the need, not the hurry of the solution.

Having to do stuff in a hurry — however you define it — always costs more then when stuff is planned properly.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 recommendation

Camelot One

MVM

said by Steve:

Having to do stuff in a hurry — however you define it — always costs more then when stuff is planned properly.

And us outside contractors love those jobs!

MooJohn
join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA

MooJohn to Kilroy

Member

to Kilroy
A hurry happens when a legacy system is vital to daily operations. If a whole company / organization is idle while the ancient box is repaired, you can bet things get done in a hurry -- damn the cost involved!

These situations usually happen despite the advice of IT who no doubt tried to move to a newer system several times, only to be answered with "it still works so we'll save the money."

Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

Kilroy

MVM

said by MooJohn:

only to be answered with "it still works so we'll save the money."

Hopefully documented so IT doesn't get the blame for a poor business decision. Being able to say I told you so doen't feel very good when you're the one jumping through hoops to get a new/updated solution in place.

Even when you have a good IT relationship and your end users trust your judgement, getting some people to spend money can require an act of a supreme being.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

1 recommendation

cramer to exocet_cm

Premium Member

to exocet_cm
said by exocet_cm:

If the product is not longer made, does it become free?

In a word: H*** NO. It's free when they'll give you a license for free.
said by exocet_cm:

If licenses cannot be purchased, but a new model of the product is incompatible, is the end use just SOL?

BINGO!