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andyross
MVM
join:2003-05-04
Aurora, IL

1 recommendation

andyross

MVM

Windows 10 preview lets Microsoft collect private data in frightening ways

quote:
Microsoft’s Insider Program that offers access to the first Windows 10 preview version is already available to interested users, but they should know the company’s privacy policy for Windows 10 contains some strange permissions that allow Microsoft to collect user data in unexpected ways, The Inquirer reports.
»news.yahoo.com/windows-1 ··· 287.html

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium Member
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

2 recommendations

siljaline

Premium Member

Thanks for this andyross See Profile

Many are already downplaying what the Tech Preview does phone home to MS, saying everyone does this these days, nothing to see here ...

Tell me the same thing when Windows10 goes RTM.

chachazz
Premium Member
join:2003-12-14

1 recommendation

chachazz to andyross

Premium Member

to andyross
Privacy Statements for Windows Technical Preview
Last update: August 2014
»windows.microsoft.com/en ··· tatement

Worth a good, careful read.

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium Member
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

1 recommendation

siljaline to andyross

Premium Member

to andyross
Microsoft reveals biggest-ever change in Windows updates:
=====================================
quote:
Microsoft will radically revamp which Windows updates customers receive starting with Windows 10, a move analysts said was the biggest-ever change in the firm's update practices. [...]
»www.computerworld.com/ar ··· tes.html

(h/t) @ Wes Miller for the heads-up.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

3 recommendations

Nanaki (banned) to andyross

Member

to andyross
Using betas and previews it is a given they are going to collect a crap load of information. You are not ever suppose to use tech previews and betas in mission critical systems nor do things like online banking shopping etc. Now from what i read on their site you can buy apps for windows 10. So shopping there well no extra risk as ms will already have your information obviously. Now if they collect the same volume and type of information on retail vers then there would be a serious problem. But it is to be expected in betas.

Ive been in many many betas for dif things mostly mmos and operating systems. One mmorpg i beta tested was very explicate in stating that they logged every single key stroke and mouse move you made. And also said again explicitly in no uncertin terms to not do any online banking shopping etc while you had the game client running and to check task manager to make sure the client had in fact fully closed. The game client created log files during game play of mouse kb etc inputs. In the event of a crash or bug report being sent this log would be sent. The log was suppose to delete once the game was closed gracefully. But it as beta meaning the log could rename if the client failed to close gracefully.

I never used nor will i use a primary system for beta testing etc. Im installing windows 10 preview on my old evo n800v laptop to see how well it performs on old hardware. That system is barely ever online and never used for any thing important.

Sp yeh there really is nothing to see here. This is standard operating procedure during betas of large software programs. They are going to collect crap loads of information to help nail down bugs and improve and or mod features.

If ms thinks logging every keystroke will help find a nasty bug then they can and should. The policy is quite upfront and broken down in to manageable chunks to make it easier to read and understand.

It comes down to this if you do not want them collecting the information then don't install the preview.
Davek
join:2014-07-17

1 recommendation

Davek to andyross

Member

to andyross
ToS are interesting indeed:

Some excerpts:
quote:
Examples of data we collect include your name, email address, preferences and interests; browsing, search and file history; phone call and SMS data

[When you]:

use voice input features, such as speech-to-text, we may collect voice information and use it for purposes such as improving speech processing;

enter text, we may collect typed characters and use them for purposes such as improving auto-complete and spell check features.
Basically, they are going to collect everything you do, type, and say in Windows 10. I'd pass, and take a close look at the final release ToS before using it.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Id only be worried if this was the tos for release version. This is imo to be expected in betas etc.

Also on side not tried installing on my old evo n800v and was presented with the message can not install do to cpu not support NX Not sure what NX is. Guess ill be keeping 7 on the old dino beast.

MacGyver

join:2001-10-14
Vancouver, BC

MacGyver

NX stands for No eXecute, which is intended to protect processes running in memory against viruses. Generally it can be disabled in BIOS. If you enable it on that old PC I think Win10 would install.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Hmm ill need to look when i get home ( i had just looked it up prior to this post)

I would think so to as this was pretty much a top of the line laptop from compaq in its day. The evo series was a bit of a beast back when it came out.

MacGyver

join:2001-10-14
Vancouver, BC
·TELUS
Actiontec T3200M
Arcadyan WE410443-TS
Sipura SPA-2102

MacGyver

Actually that laptop only has a P4 in it which may have been before NX was introduced. »social.technet.microsoft ··· tproperf

Myself, I'm running the preview in Oracle Virtualbox.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

well got a post ate by the net.
But yeh seems it will not work. And i have no other comp i can use. Going to see about getting a lappy off a friend to run 10 on maybe retire the evo.
redwolfe_98
Premium Member
join:2001-06-11

2 edits

redwolfe_98 to andyross

Premium Member

to andyross
the only scary part was "converting voice to text", which would only affect, maybe, 1 in every 2 billion people, considering that only 2% of smartphones use windows, and maybe .01% of the owners of those will install alpha-10..

Link Logger
MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB

Link Logger

MVM

Converting voice to text is going to affect most users as voice interfaces Cortana, Siri, etc are becoming more and more popular. I rarely pickup a controler when using my xbox one as I use voice for pretty much everything. Voice capabilities have been around for a long time with Windows and users will use it more given the advancements that have been made recently in voice recognition. During a preview or beta release heck ya Microsoft is going to be interested in voice to text etc as I would thing accent tuning etc is part of the preview release. Cortana is dam impressive at voice to text recognition and I can hardly wait to use her on the desktop as well.

Blake
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Yeh should be interesting and sometimes entertaining. I reall want to get 10 on a comp at home to watch some of the goofy stuff it is going to do with voice rec. I want to put a mic near the tv and see if it goes stupid with a tv show going hehe.
clocks11
join:2002-05-06
00000

1 edit

clocks11 to andyross

Member

to andyross
"Windows 10's "Keylogger" Fiasco Has Been Blown Out of Proportion"

»lifehacker.com/windows-1 ··· 42931793

Link Logger
MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB

Link Logger to Nanaki

MVM

to Nanaki
Depends on how its done as the xbox one uses a mic array so it can track your location in the room and given it looks for a unique startup sequence 'Xbox', its not so easy to fool (however some people have)

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· La4AnN5k


Given at any time the system will only respond to given commands (ie context sensitive commands) the random TV voices shouldn't cause that many problems (it hasn't at all on my xbox one for example)

Blake
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Well i was talking more speech dictation

Long story short girl on bus was telling me about how she had been voice texting a friend and forgot to close it out and watched a movie. It texted her friend the movie word for word with out missing a beat for the most part. Some of the apps would auto send once the message buffer was full
Nanaki

Nanaki (banned) to Link Logger

Member

to Link Logger
I sooooooooooooo want to do that now lol to funny. Least the victims took it in good humor.

dslcreature
Premium Member
join:2010-07-10
Seattle, WA

2 recommendations

dslcreature to clocks11

Premium Member

to clocks11
Little surprised by acceptance of keystroke recording. CEIP is to be expected yet key strokes seems more than wee bit "out there" .. Likely could have been smarter technical mitigations allowing same level of feedback without typed content leakage concerns... context x, typed _redacted_, z happened ... thus avoiding all online headlines and control knobs to control outflow of data is always nice.

All disclaimers, risks and privacy policies aside myself, friends and coworkers have always loaded up bleeding edge new versions of windows to screw around and use as our desktops... inevitably using early released on our machines until updates and RTMs came out. Was a little risky no real point to it most of the time other than playing around and occasionally sending feedback when something went haywire. Bit sad I find myself not wanting to touch the preview... hopefully privacy issues will improve later in the process.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

1 recommendation

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Well don't forget that the keyboard is driven by a driver. Meaning if a bug exists in that driver it could lead to things like hitting shift +t causes a bsod. Or win key+ what ever other key ctrl alt etc + key or any single key.

I installed key-loggers on the systems i was using to beta test mmorpgs and operating systems and any other software. A few times esp with one mmo bugs were discovered and patched as a direct result of keystroke logging. So i personally see the value of logging as much as possible during betas esp early ones like windows 10 preview. Im fairly sure that as time goes on ms will start to lower the amount of logging of various things.

As for using the preview i should hope you would not use it on a main daily use machine. That would never be a smart thing to do.

chachazz
Premium Member
join:2003-12-14

chachazz to andyross

Premium Member

to andyross
Microsoft has issued this statement to Winbeta
quote:
The Windows 10 Technical Preview is a pre-release build of the OS designed for testing, evaluation and feedback. We use a variety of security technologies and procedures to help protect your personal information from unauthorized access, use or disclosure. For example, all data sent from the Windows 10 Technical Preview to Microsoft is encrypted in transit and we store the personal information you provide on computer systems that have limited access and are in controlled facilities.

Once you download Tech Preview and become a member of the Windows Insider Program, you provide information about how you use the product, including what devices you use it with, along with your detailed feedback to make adjustments before we launch the product.

Article comment:
quote:
We must stress that the feedback being collected in the Windows Technical Preview will only occur within the Technical Preview period. Once Windows 10 launches to the public as RTM, the data Microsoft collects will be removed from the operating system. This isn't a permanent feature within Windows 10, and therefore should not be a concern to your average Joe.
»www.winbeta.org/news/usi ··· feedback
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

1 recommendation

Nanaki (banned)

Member

I find it hard to believe people thought it would remain. My bet is people never read the statements for other windows previews and betas. They may not have been word for word identical but the effect was the same. Massive and obtrusive do not use this product for daily use data collection.

What is funny is i had a laptop come in to the shop one day with a cracked version of windows 7 preview installed.... It was one we bought from a customer so i wiped it off and re-installed a legal ver of 7 but still boggles the mind.

Hypeup
@72.239.217.x

Hypeup to andyross

Anon

to andyross
said by andyross:

quote:
Microsoft’s Insider Program that offers access to the first Windows 10 preview version is already available to interested users, but they should know the company’s privacy policy for Windows 10 contains some strange permissions that allow Microsoft to collect user data in unexpected ways, The Inquirer reports.
»news.yahoo.com/windows-1 ··· 287.html

Before taking out the tin hats, if you read the underlying reasons it helps improve the OS.

Sure MS could and most likely already knows everything you type and say, just like Android and iOS.

I like the idea of knowing what app you were using before it crashed or had an issue. They can get the whole picture instead of you having to submit a ticket explaining why your computer doesn't work right.

People are tired of being a beta tester.

I know this does open yourself up to loss of privacy, but what makes anyone think it ever was private once they purchased a computer?
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

OZO

Premium Member

said by Hypeup :

People are tired of being a beta tester.

That's true. And it begins to look especially helpful, that m$ now collects (and sends to their servers) not only keys and mouse moves, but the voice data too. They (m$) are going to hear (and transcribe to text) when users shout - WTF??? - trying that "new" stuff

Link Logger
MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB

Link Logger to Hypeup

MVM

to Hypeup
said by Hypeup :

People are tired of being a beta tester.

Apparently not as lots of folks installed the beta, including some here.

Blake

dslcreature
Premium Member
join:2010-07-10
Seattle, WA

dslcreature to Hypeup

Premium Member

to Hypeup
said by Hypeup :

I know this does open yourself up to loss of privacy, but what makes anyone think it ever was private once they purchased a computer?

The word "purchased" is an important clue.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20 to OZO

Premium Member

to OZO
Hmpf. Microsoft's own Hyper-V does not support audio and a lot of us have it installed on Hyper-V since we can't use Virtualbox which does have audio support for it but won't install Guest Additions which is essential. So, Microsoft won't be getting any voice data from me! I am really surprised that after all these years of offering virtual machine software Microsoft still is not supporting audio.

I'm not tired of being a beta tester at all! I love doing betas...I was getting so bored and avoiding my computer...now I am glued to it because I have something interesting to do.

ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia

ashrc4 to andyross

Premium Member

to andyross
What happened to windows 9....did the Germans say no.

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium Member
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

siljaline

Premium Member

MS decided it reminded to much of the failed Win9x... Product Families and jumped to Win 10.

norwegian
Premium Member
join:2005-02-15
Outback

1 recommendation

norwegian to Link Logger

Premium Member

to Link Logger
said by Link Logger:

said by Hypeup :

People are tired of being a beta tester.

Apparently not as lots of folks installed the beta, including some here.

Blake

I think is is more relative to say, we are happy to beta test, but unhappy when no one listens to the work involved.(Would Win8 be relative)

/rant on
"Have a free license" after no one listening is frustrating.
Some just don't care if it is free or not.....that is a real truth.
Once called "fanboy" that cost me more than it ever cost my testing time and the hours involved in comparison to such companies involved.
/rant off