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MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

MHHMHH79

Premium Member

HDR, HDR, HDR,HDR


0 EV
 

Photomatrix
 

SNS
 

HDR Expose
 

LR Enfuse
 
I've got several different HDR programs on my PC, and am always at a loss deciding which to use for a particular set of images. I decided to try to find out what each of these programs would do to a non-specific image, and for that purpose I chose one of the Ishihara color charts. In Photoshop I defined this image as 0EV, and using the exposure control made two copies, one set at -1 and one set at +1, giving me three images I could run through my four HDR programs, Photomatrix, SNS, HDR Expose and LR Enfuse.

Image 1 is the 0 EV ,Image 2 is the Photomatrix result, Image 3 is the SNS result, Image 4 is the HDR Expose result and Image 5 is the LR Enfuse result.

I think you can see that the Photomatrix result is yellow and the SNS result is red by comparison to the 0EV, and both the HDR Expose and LR Enfuse are very similar to the 0 EV.

The HDR programs were all set to their default values, and I suppose that you might morph one result so that it looks like any other, but that's an after the fact decision, and it leaves me wondering whether or not these programs, especially Photomatrix and SNS are producing color shifts as well as dynamic range adjustments.

Please let me know what you think, especially if you use any of these programs, and feel free to upload any examples.

Tex
Dave's not here
Premium Member
join:2012-10-20

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Tex

Premium Member

Don't tell me you're the former indefatigable "mhhack"? Say it ain't so! :-0

rcroning
D700 Rocks
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join:2005-05-21
Winnipeg, MB

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rcroning to MHHMHH79

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I don't really think this is the correct way to run tests on HDR software. You would need actual camera images rather than computer generated ones used for testing color blindness. It just does not compute.

And yes Tex, it's the one and only Martin Hack

MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

MHHMHH79

Premium Member

I chose a non-specific image on purpose, so that any preconceived notions of color might be avoided. When you deal with actual images viewing is psychological to some extent, and memory plays it's part in processing. I think that even this simple comparison shows color shifts that are software dependent. If you've the time and effort, I'd like to see your version of how you might test different HDR software.

SueS
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO

1 recommendation

SueS

Premium Member

Even if you get the colors correct they will be flat. Blending is the best choice.

MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

2 edits

MHHMHH79

Premium Member

The LREnfuse software seems to produce the best color and is basically a blending software, without all the bells and whistles of the others. It's an easier job to give the colors a bit of pop when they are correct.

Quite possibly we should all have a look at the ishihara plates: »www.color-blindness.com/ ··· ttyPhoto.

If you're colorblind all bets are off, and your processing will not be 100% accurate in any case.
vue666 (banned)
Let's make Canchat better!!!
join:2007-12-07

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vue666 (banned) to MHHMHH79

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I really do not like the really over done HDR images. I like some of the stuff Trey Ratcliff does, especially the more natural looking HDR and not the cartoony stuff.

Most of the time I prefer Topaz Adjust to bring out the colors.

rcroning
D700 Rocks
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Winnipeg, MB

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rcroning to MHHMHH79

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said by MHHMHH79:

I chose a non-specific image on purpose, so that any preconceived notions of color might be avoided. When you deal with actual images viewing is psychological to some extent, and memory plays it's part in processing. I think that even this simple comparison shows color shifts that are software dependent. If you've the time and effort, I'd like to see your version of how you might test different HDR software.

I am not a fan of HDR at all, preferring to get wider dynamic range in-camera using ND Grads. That gives me more time behind a camera, doing what I love, instead of in front of a computer screen, trying to achieve what I could have done with on-camera filters.

MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

1 edit

MHHMHH79

Premium Member

said by rcroning:

I am not a fan of HDR at all, preferring to get wider dynamic range in-camera using ND Grads.

How about an example? I've never used them, but it seems you need a horizon to use them. I don't see how they might be useful for images having extreme ranges in all areas.

SueS
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join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO

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SueS to MHHMHH79

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Changing when you shoot might help with some of your problems. You cannot fix images shot in harsh light. My opinion

MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

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MHHMHH79

Premium Member

Click for full size
said by SueS:

You cannot fix images shot in harsh light. My opinion

I think that the whole point of HDR/Blending is to enable, among other things, the fixing of images taken in harsh light, if what you mean by harsh light is a very high highlight/shadow ratio.
I've processed a 3 shot image here in Photomatrix, SNS, HDR Expose and LREnfuse. The top left is Photomatrix, the bottom left is SNS, the top right is HDR Expose and the bottom right is LR Enfuse.
You can see the differences (all processed at default settings). It's quite possible that each of these programs might be best for a particular image, but I think the LR Enfuse does the least amount of damage.

SueS
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join:2007-05-16
Macon, MO

2 recommendations

SueS

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No, I and many others here have tried to explain, but HDR is not intended to use for harsh light. Harsh light is shooting between the hours of 10 and 3 during a sun shiny day without clouds, unless you and your subject are in the shade. With clouds you need to wait till the light is under a cloud.

High dr is shooting into the sun during a sunrise or sunset, often with clouds, then folks use HDR. Many also use it for interiors, where the dr is too much for the camera, but not harsh. Images in harsh light are not fixable in my opinion, you can try, but they will never be good.

rcroning
D700 Rocks
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rcroning to MHHMHH79

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said by MHHMHH79:

said by rcroning:

I am not a fan of HDR at all, preferring to get wider dynamic range in-camera using ND Grads.

How about an example? I've never used them, but it seems you need a horizon to use them. I don't see how they might be useful for images having extreme ranges in all areas.

A well defined horizon line is only needed when using a hard ND Grad. For all others, a soft ND Grad works just fine.

Edit: See this site for an example of what an ND Grad can do »www.nathangriffin.com/te ··· d_nd.htm

And see here for the pros and cons of ND Grads vs HDR and vice versa. I prefer the former as I am more a "getting it right in-camera" kind of photographer.
»www.nathangriffin.com/te ··· HDR.html

Edit2: One of the possible reasons some photographers prefer HDR over ND Grads is that good quality grads from manufacturers like LEE Filters are costly. Another possibility is they just like doing things in post.
vue666 (banned)
Let's make Canchat better!!!
join:2007-12-07

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vue666 (banned) to MHHMHH79

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said by MHHMHH79:

said by SueS:

You cannot fix images shot in harsh light. My opinion

I think that the whole point of HDR/Blending is to enable, among other things, the fixing of images taken in harsh light, if what you mean by harsh light is a very high highlight/shadow ratio.
I've processed a 3 shot image here in Photomatrix, SNS, HDR Expose and LREnfuse. The top left is Photomatrix, the bottom left is SNS, the top right is HDR Expose and the bottom right is LR Enfuse.
You can see the differences (all processed at default settings). It's quite possible that each of these programs might be best for a particular image, but I think the LR Enfuse does the least amount of damage.

I prefer the LR Enfuse version. Last week I did make a small donation for this Lightroom plugin and received via e-mail a serial number. Been using this plugin and I like it very much...

Willy
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join:2000-09-24
USA

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Willy to MHHMHH79

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said by MHHMHH79:

I'd like to see your version of how you might test different HDR software.

I would use a set of images, at different exposures, that cover a dynamic rage too great to be captured in a single exposure.
I'm not sure what this test accomplishes.

At best it "may show" color shift assuming you made identical adjustments in every program.
I don't know that you did or even that you could do that so I don't understand what your trying to show here.

MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

MHHMHH79

Premium Member

My aim here was not to provide a definitive test of HDR programs, but to show that there are differences in how HDR programs combine images. Most of the time processing is done well after the images are taken, and the choice of which HDR to use depends, for me, on which does the least 'damage' to the original, both in terms of the lighting and color. The images used here, the Ishihara plates, were chosen to show the color shifts, and the other images chosen since they were taken in harsh light and were processed in their default modes. If your aim is to keep as close to the original scene as possible then the program choice matters; if your intent is 'artistic' then all bets are off, unless the original fulfills that purpose.

Willy
Premium Member
join:2000-09-24
USA

Willy

Premium Member

Unfortunately after countless posts on the subject and countless responses to your HDR posts you obviously don't understand and unfortunately don't seem to be capable of understanding what HDR is all about.

I'm still waiting for a coherent explanation of what the point of this post is.

MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

MHHMHH79

Premium Member

said by Willy:

I'm still waiting for a coherent explanation of what the point of this post is.

I think you might understand the point of the post if you were to re-read all the comments.

Perhaps you might enlighten all of us as to your evident superior understanding of HDR, which, by the way, I have been using successfully for many years, and continue to explore.

Willy
Premium Member
join:2000-09-24
USA

Willy

Premium Member

said by MHHMHH79:

Perhaps you might enlighten all of us as to your evident superior understanding of HDR, which, by the way, I have been using successfully for many years, and continue to explore.

Superior understanding?
You either understand it or you don't.

I re-read the posts and your test, if accurate, shows a color shift between programs.
That's helpful if you're having issues with colors and are searching for the best HDR program for your needs. I will give you that and if that's the point of the test it is valid.
Of course this assumes all HDR programs are equal in all other respects which they aren't.

Just read the first line here »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi ··· _imaging
If you understand that you're on your way to understanding HDR.
Just understand that running an image through an HDR program doesn't make it an HDR image.

"........ reproduce a greater dynamic range of luminosity than possible using standard digital imaging ..."

MHHMHH79
Premium Member
join:2014-08-23
Kew Gardens, NY

MHHMHH79

Premium Member

Thanks for the wikipedia reference. I fully understand that running an image through an HDR program doesn't make it an HDR image. Unlike some people I frequently take photos when the light is 'harsh', so I use HDR to increase the dynamic range, and given the choice of programs I usually opt for those that show the least color shift, which can usually be seen when comparing the HDR image with the 0EV image. I think that this is the point of my thread. As I've said, if 'artistic' HDR is what you're looking for, then all bets are off.