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ninjadude
join:2002-01-06
Aurora, IL

ninjadude to goalieskates

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Re: Americans Distrust Government Too Much to Answer Census Questions

As you'll note from the article, you really don't have a choice. Not answering is against the law. With real consequences.

Your opinion on what the census asks is unimportant. Your compliance is required. This is nothing new.

PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

2 recommendations

PX Eliezer1 to goalieskates

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The constitutional purpose of the US census is to apportion seats in the US House of Representatives and for the original system of per-capita taxation....

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

It's reasonable for the various states to use the same data to apportion the seats in their state legislatures. Baker v. Carr (1962) essentially requires that in fact.

Beyond that their is no constitutional authority for asking about number of bathrooms or household consumption of pickles or anything else....
Ostracus
join:2011-09-05
Henderson, KY

Ostracus to StuartMW

Member

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Well everything we do will leak (gossip anyone?), technology just makes it easier. The real answer isn't to become any semblance of hermits, but to tackle the problem head-on. The government spying on it's citizenry. Arguably an easier solution than regressing a society.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

Agreed. The best solution is to stop governments from spying. The trouble with that (in the US) is that almost all politicians are all for it as is the majority of the population ("just keep me safe").

To put it another way there's virtually no pushback so we're stuck with the status quo ("We suck it all")--at least for now.
The Antihero
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

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Last time they were doing the census, I got a letter from the census bureau, which I thought was the census form. Instead, it was a letter letting me know the census form would be coming. I'd love to know what the point of that was, and how much money they wasted on those stupid letters.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Blackbird

Premium Member

said by The Antihero:

... it was a letter letting me know the census form would be coming. I'd love to know what the point of that was, and how much money they wasted on those stupid letters.

It wasn't "wasted". Think of it as being "re-invested"... re-invested in the salaries of postal carriers.

Ian1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-18
ON

Ian1 to StuartMW

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said by StuartMW:

If you use social media, smartphones etc all that data is going straight into NSA (and others) databases.

Perhaps. Then again, there's so very much of that data that you more or less retain your anonymity by simply being one of the horde. No more, or less interesting than anyone else. It's when you do something that's perks up their interest that singles you out. For instance, if you post in a security forum and/or are critical of the NSA.
said by StuartMW:

I know I can't prevent NSA monitoring and be on the internet etc. That said I take active measures to make it hard for them. I doubt many do that.

The problem is that those "active measures" are likely the very thing that singles you out for attention. If 95% of your email and online activity is unencrypted, and 5% is encrypted through a server in Scandanavia....... ?

If I were to try and hide communication, I would likely make sure ALL my email was encrypted, or use obscure ways. Like of the 100 cat pictures I posted to a message board, the 93rd had an embedded message with steganography.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW to The Antihero

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to The Antihero
said by The Antihero:

I'd love to know what the point of that was...

My theory. Lots of junk mail these days looks "official" with words like "important" and "don't throw away" written on it. I think the "heads-up" letter is an attempt to stop people discarding the actual census letter.
StuartMW

StuartMW to Ian1

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said by Ian1:

...you more or less retain your anonymity by simply being one of the horde.

Maybe... My take on that is that sheep in a herd still get rounded up and shorn.
said by Ian1:

The problem is that those "active measures" are likely the very thing that singles you out for attention.

True. It depends on what you do. For example I don't use Tor but doing so, full time, is likely to set off alarm bells (with some justification).

There was poster here a while back ("privacy expert" or something like that) who claimed to use very high-grade encryption, foreign proxies etc and told stories of the attention he (or she) received. Up close and "personal" attention.

Personally I'm in the middle somewhere. Use encrypted (https) sites where possible, don't upload anything personal anywhere, no smartphone, careful dumb-cell phone use etc.

Ian1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-18
ON

Ian1

Premium Member

said by StuartMW:

Maybe... My take on that is that sheep in a herd still get rounded up and shorn.

Perhaps. But as far as the census goes, probably be best to simply answer it than to be singled out as some sort of "privacy nut".

So, if I got the long form census, I'd answer it the same way any disabled spanish-speaking eskimo that heats their home with whale oil would.
The Antihero
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

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said by StuartMW:

I think the "heads-up" letter is an attempt to stop people discarding the actual census letter.

So what's to stop someone from throwing away the "heads-up" letter too?

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium Member
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

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IIRC, the same shenanigans happened with those "economic stimulus" checks, and that was my first thought: what a f'ing waste.

jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
MVM
join:2000-04-13
USA

1 recommendation

jaykaykay to DownTheShore

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"I would worry more about the intrusive powers granted to the government by the Patriot Act and the overreach of the NSA than I ever will about census data collection."

To me, there is no "more". I worry about those things too. But apparently, you didn't get the mandatory long form to fill out last year! When one gets something like that and with the questions that were included, I worry! History is one thing, but many of the questions asked in that long form didn't have to be asked, were invasive in their way, and when there's a mandatory Census form with a penalty if you don't fill it out, I worry a lot.