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Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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Re: [WoD] So, someone explain this to me....

I wasn't trying to imply it will be that way, I was trying to say that is how it was for Priests at Cata launch and exactly what I'm worried it will be like going into WoD. And not even specifically Priests, though they've generally been the weakest healer at expansion start for years, I wouldn't wish that Cata Priest bullshit on any healing class. It was horrible.
clawfury
join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI

clawfury

Member

I second that priests were sh*t at the start of Cata. Every single one I knew went shadow. They couldn't heal heroics hardly at all, unless they were very skilled or had a very good group. LFD was out of the question. I saw people leave groups when they saw a priest healer. More than once.

Snuffbox
nice irl
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

Snuffbox to Hazmat

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said by Hazmat:

We have one month of MoP with stat squish, screwed up talents, no profession perks, and downgraded gems, enchants and potions/flasks. Then we have to get from 90 to 100 BEFORE "balance" shows up to play.

Did you kill a level 90 mob last night? Or you've just read in between the lines and are of the impression that stat squish nerfed you and left PvE mobs at 900K health?

They die if you breath on them.

As of today, if you have trouble killing mobs you're doing something wrong. Classes do more damage now compared to before the patch... And stamina was buffed. So while your agility may have been halved, your stamina was doubled comparatively speaking.

Ghastlyone
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join:2009-01-07
Nashville, TN

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My god...reading this thread it's like patch 4.0 deja vu.
clawfury
join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI

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I killed every mob I came near in 2 hits on my 550 feral druid. Constant self heal procs for 1/4 of my HP. Mobs and stuff out in the world is not an issue, agreed.

Snuffbox
nice irl
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

Snuffbox to Adalicia

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I understand Ada.

As for the priest if it's any consolation. I skirmished for a few hours last night paired with a random Dpriest and we rolled teams as Feral/Dpriest. Went 20-3, and that's with no communication. Several games went for over 20+ minutes and he was still able to keep from going OOM.

However, I don't know that the same will be true come level 100...

qualitybobby
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join:2009-12-29
Middleville, NY

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Not to mention... when was the last time levelling to the cap was remotely difficult or you risked dying? Vanilla? Because I started as a total know nothing noob about 3 weeks into TBC and the only time I really died after the first day or two was if I accidentally pulled too many mobs or something about 10 levels over me.

It won't take long to get to 100, and you'll figure it out with a few regular dungeons if you do them on the way. So worrying about it all before hitting the cap isn't worth it. I'm quite sure there will be more than a few awful classes and specs (I already feel bad for hunters looking at the sim DPS) and in the next 4 weeks there will be hotfixes and adjustments almost daily.

See where we are in a month.

Snuffbox
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

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said by clawfury:

I killed every mob I came near in 2 hits on my 550 feral druid. Constant self heal procs for 1/4 of my HP. Mobs and stuff out in the world is not an issue, agreed.

^^ This.

Cat5
join:2013-04-26

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said by clawfury:

I second that priests were sh*t at the start of Cata. Every single one I knew went shadow. They couldn't heal heroics hardly at all, unless they were very skilled or had a very good group. LFD was out of the question. I saw people leave groups when they saw a priest healer. More than once.

Whereas I was playing a priest and having little to no issues with the actual healing. For me the issue was everyone wanting to faceroll over content like they had in Wrath coupled with some pretty unforgiving / cheesy fight mechanics.

Keeping Renew on the tank and then spamming the lowest mana heal on him was more than enough to survive in even green gear. You even had spare mana to chuck the odd big heal on the tank or a damage DPS if required. The trouble came with everyone taking crazy damage and then not having the mana or output to cope. The silly ogre with his chains, the giant in Stonecore, the worm in Stonecore, the dragon in Stonecore, and practically every other boss in the expansion had abilities which would take 75%+ of a players life off. Granted these were mostly avoidable, but the Wrath era players had no conception of moving out of stuff and wipes were then blamed on the healer. If you level a toon now, 80-85 dungeon runs are still out of the question as the dungeons are still too highly tuned, and for players who know the tactics. Sadly this isn't many.

Had Blizz actually balanced these fights correctly then healing wouldn't have needed the crazy OPness of Mists.

Snuffbox
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

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said by clawfury:

I second that priests were sh*t at the start of Cata.

To clarify, I was directing my comments towards healing as a whole - not specifically priests.

I'm not condoning one healer being worse than others for the sake of "difficulty". Sorry if I gave that impression Ada/others. If a healer is clearly behind, it needs to be fixed. My argument was purely for healing as a whole, I enjoy and think its good for the game when you actually have to make mana decisions etc.
clawfury
join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI

clawfury

Member

I think we all agree on these points, after reading:
1. Drinking all of the time is not compelling game play
2. Not being able to heal is bad game play (constantly OOM)
3. Healing should require smart decisions, not mindless spam or "smart heals"
4. Mana management should be an essential part of a good healer's skill set
5. All of the above being true, content needs to be tuned to compensate for the lack of burst healing - you can't create situations where you need to spam like crazy but not have the throughput or mana to accomplish it

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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said by Snuffbox:

I enjoy and think its good for the game when you actually have to make mana decisions etc.

SW:TOR, for all its faults, actually did something exceptionally interesting with the Scoundrel / Operative class in that they used Energy to heal and had a secondary resource (Upper Hand / Tactical Advantage) tied to some of their abilities in addition to having passive benefits (such as more healing with more stacks). And you know what? The way it worked was awesome. You had to maintain your secondary resource and decide went to spend and build more, you had proc based stuff, and you had Energy, which regenerated at a static rate based on how much overall energy you had. If you ran it way down you got it back much slower and run into massive problems. It caused you to be more efficient with the way you used your abilities and healed. It was a good system for conserving and pooling energy. Mana doesn't work quite like that. If it did I would be all for it, especially with a secondary resource (Holy Power for example) that was tied to abilities.

Snuffbox
nice irl
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

Snuffbox

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... Kind of like Chi?

Immer
Gentleman
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join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA

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I hope to get some time in tonight healing in both disc and holy specs in preparation for our raid on friday night. I hope to be able to share some thoughts here. A lot has changed in the UI so I want to rebuild macros and spell alerts to minimize distractions from healing evaluations. So far, I worry that we are being made to feel artificially powerful right now... which concerns me for the days ahead.

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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said by Snuffbox:

... Kind of like Chi?

The way Monk Healing should have been, basically. Energy + Chi instead of Mana + Chi.
clawfury
join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI

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said by Immer:

I hope to get some time in tonight healing in both disc and holy specs in preparation for our raid on friday night. I hope to be able to share some thoughts here. A lot has changed in the UI so I want to rebuild macros and spell alerts to minimize distractions from healing evaluations. So far, I worry that we are being made to feel artificially powerful right now... which concerns me for the days ahead.

"artificially powerful" - this hits the nail on the head. Totally agree, this is exactly what it feel like.

Snuffbox
nice irl
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

Snuffbox

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said by clawfury:

"artificially powerful"

I agree with this as well. But I don't view it as a intentional deception... but a part of every expansion's beginning. This isn't new, or a contrived plan to trick people into accepting nerfs...

Learn your talents, glyphs and potential new rotations. But don't freak out about balance until end-game. We are no longer in end-game.

Immer
Gentleman
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join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA

Immer

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I don't ascribe malice, but feel like it hasn't been given enough attention. I think they've worked in something to smooth out transition between MOP and WoD for those who aren't suddenly 'heroically geared'. I'm not freaking out about it, just not comfortable with it. It seems UBRS is really going to serve as a testing ground of sorts, and I need to smash through it as often as possible with as many classes I can muster.

Snuffbox
nice irl
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

Snuffbox

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But that would require a patch for a patch.

They've done months of PTR testing/adjustments to attempt some sort of balance at level 100.

They give us the patch 1 month early to in my opinion generate hype and allow players to prepare for changes and actually be able to start leveling on day 1 of the expansion.

If they attempted to balance for 90, they would need to put in another balancing patch at level 100 which personally I think is too much to ask.

If anything they just shouldn't drop the patch until the day of the expansion, however that means millions of people wouldn't be truly leveling for several hours after the expansion.
clawfury
join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI

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I'm with Immer here. I don't wear a tin foil hat when it comes to Blizzard. They are just people, doing their job like anyone else. They make mistakes, and they misjudge. I've spent quite a bit of time healing the new UBRS. It's super easy (just like Cata) with a skilled tank and good dps. It's still not difficult even with a bad tank (if you're a geared healer) - it just requires a lot of spamming, and this is the part that feels "artificially powerful". I can't imagine we will be able to spam like that to overcome shitty players , which leads back to early Cata.

Snuffbox
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

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Missed seeing you around. No homo.

Carpie
join:2012-10-19
united state

Carpie

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said by Snuffbox:

No homo.

Lies. I'm branding you as a bromancer.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
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join:2010-08-24
Mexico

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If you have to say no homo it means that you are repressing your feelings. You can go full homo for Carpie and Immer its ok.

Snuffbox
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

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My bromance list: Tom Hardy, Brad Pitt, any Chicago Bear or Chicago Bull, and Immer.

Seems about right.

Jobbie
Keep It Simple
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join:2010-08-24
Mexico

Jobbie

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I approve this.

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

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No Cubs? Ah, who am I kidding, no one loves the Cubs.

Snuffbox
nice irl
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

Snuffbox

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Certainly no love for the Sox. Blackhawks would make the bromance list before the Cubs.

However, the real problem is it's baseball, and I don't know why on earth the sport even exists. I would much prefer to play/watch golf.

Nine innings of complete boredom. Even with alcohol, free tickets, and good friends it's still not worth entering the stadium. Tailgate and then go home.

Adalicia
Om Nom Nom
join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE

Adalicia

Member

I think we've had this conversation before. As a baseball fan, I can say I don't blame folks that think it is boring as shit. Seems like you're either a big baseball fan or you hate the sport with a burning passion and think it is the dumbest thing on the planet. It is kind of weird, I can't think of another American sport I feel is quite as polarizing.

And of course I can't blame the fine folks of Chicago for like the Cubs (or White Sox I guess). They're the lovable fuck-up retards of baseball. Wrigley Field is an awesome stadium though.

Snuffbox
nice irl
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join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI

Snuffbox

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I would "recommend" your post but I can't, it appears to be broken.

Won't attack baseball, it's just not for me.

Immer
Gentleman
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join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA

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said by Snuffbox:

My bromance list: Tom Hardy, Brad Pitt, any Chicago Bear or Chicago Bull, and Immer.

quite possibly the only way I'd ever be equated with Brad Pitt... going to have to allow it.