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Bender2000
Bite My Shiny Metal Ass
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join:2002-05-06
J7W 8E4

Bender2000 to dirtyjeffer0

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to dirtyjeffer0

Re: 2014 Winter Tire thread

said by dirtyjeffer0:

Xice3s are good, but so are the Blizzaks...both of our cars have WS70s on them and they work great...they are also less expensive than the X-Ice 3 tires and still available at Costco...if you can get WS80s (that is the newest one, but not sure of sizes/availability), certainly consider those.

from looking at Costco's website, you can get the Michelin X-ICE 3s for $157.49 each installed (the Michelin tires are currently on sale)...the Bridgestone WS80s are only $144.99 each, but they will likely go on sale next and they would be $127.49 installed...i'd wait a bit for the Bridgestones to go on sale and get those.

I'm holding off until I see the next sale at costco. If they put the $70 off like I expect them too, then I could get the blizzaks at costco for $130.49 installed (including the $3/tire government fee).
Bender2000

Bender2000

Premium Member

So, a lot of you have mentioned the General Altimax Artic tire. This is actually the tire I am replacing. I had considered sticking with the Altimax Artic, but at the same time, the tire technology of this tire is old. There are many improvements to winter tire technology that I think I might like. I got 6 years out of the Generals...though, year #6 was dicey...barely any traction despite still having sufficient tread left. I have to agree that those tires were great in snow/slush and were quite good for the first 4 seasons (I probably should have replaced them after 4 seasons). They were never superb with ice though. I do agree, given the price of them, they're an awesome tire.

sm5w2
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join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON

sm5w2 to Anav

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to Anav
> If you do change tire size, its not just about within a certain percentage,
> one needs to factor in the load bearing capacity of the tires.

Load bearing capacity increases as the total-enclosed tire volume increases. That means as you make the side walls higher (increase tire profile) the load rating increases. But all that is completely irrelavent for passenger cars, minivans and light trucks, because the combined load capacity of any 4 tires you put on those vehicles far exceeds their gross weight.

And yes, you will get better "get me out of this snow drift" performance with narrower tires. I'd put 205's on my car if I could find 205-70-16's in a Cooper Discoverer. 215 is the narrowest they make.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium Member
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

Anav

Premium Member

said by sm5w2:

> If you do change tire size, its not just about within a certain percentage,
> one needs to factor in the load bearing capacity of the tires.

Load bearing capacity increases as the total-enclosed tire volume increases. That means as you make the side walls higher (increase tire profile) the load rating increases. But all that is completely irrelavent for passenger cars, minivans and light trucks, because the combined load capacity of any 4 tires you put on those vehicles far exceeds their gross weight.

And yes, you will get better "get me out of this snow drift" performance with narrower tires. I'd put 205's on my car if I could find 205-70-16's in a Cooper Discoverer. 215 is the narrowest they make.

Not sure I can agree on load balance.....
How would an insurance company view an accident if they knew you were using tires that did not meet the load balance requirements of the original equipment......

from one website...
Paying attention to a replacement tire's load rating is critical. The tire must be able to safely support a given amount of vehicle weight. If the tire's load rating is insufficient, the tire may become overheated and can self-destruct.
For example, if a passenger car performance tire is selected to replace an original equipment light truck tire on an SUV, the new tire must meet or exceed the requirement for the specific vehicle weight.

Remeber a weaker capacity of a tire is multiplied by four.
anynomous
join:2003-06-25
montreal

anynomous to Bender2000

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to Bender2000
i got my Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV from Vianor in williston in the US
U$680 for 4x 235x65r17 taxes included well worth it.
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr to Bender2000

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to Bender2000
Truck was due for new tires this winter. I ordered Michelin LTX A/T2's from Costco for ~$1100 installed that are scheduled to be installed this evening.

Bender2000
Bite My Shiny Metal Ass
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join:2002-05-06
J7W 8E4

Bender2000

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said by Robrr:

Truck was due for new tires this winter. I ordered Michelin LTX A/T2's from Costco for ~$1100 installed that are scheduled to be installed this evening.

Robr, if you lived in Quebec, they wouldn't be legal between Dec 15 and Mar 15...

As of this year, the winter tire law applies to trucks. LT/AT tires no longer considered acceptable. In Quebec, the tire must have the snowflake in the mountain symbol, including trucks.

koira
Hey Siri Walk Me
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join:2004-02-16

koira to Bender2000

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to Bender2000
said by Bender2000:

...

No need to wait for the costco sale, there is a $70 off Michelin promo on now to Dec 15 , applies to any retailer except costco
»www.michelinpromo.ca/
IamGimli (banned)
join:2004-02-28
Canada

IamGimli (banned) to Bender2000

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to Bender2000
You could also see if you can find some Michelin X-Ice2. They are an older design but they're still pretty much as good as the X-Ice3, slightly better in some aspect, slightly worse in others. They will be much cheaper than the X-Ice3 though. Best of both worlds.
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr to koira

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to koira
Costco is still matching the $70 off promo. Thats why I bought the tires I did.
Robrr

Robrr to Bender2000

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to Bender2000
said by Bender2000:

Robr, if you lived in Quebec, they wouldn't be legal between Dec 15 and Mar 15...

As of this year, the winter tire law applies to trucks. LT/AT tires no longer considered acceptable. In Quebec, the tire must have the snowflake in the mountain symbol, including trucks.

Good news is that I don't live in Quebec

I do find it interesting however that Quebec is more stringent about winter tires than a place like BC. BC only requires an M+S tire to drive through the mountains during the winter.

sm5w2
Premium Member
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON

sm5w2 to Anav

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to Anav
> Not sure I can agree on load balance.....

Based on numbers put out on by Canada tire a number of years ago in a chart:

Max tire load (lbs) = [X * 9.496 - 624] +/- Q

Where X is the tire "section width" (the first number in the tire-size sequence, ie 225-55-17, X = 225.

Average Q = 90, max Q = 200

So given a tire 185-something-something, max load = 1130 lbs, and a 225-something-something tire would be 1512 lbs. Multiple both by 4 (4520 and 6050 lbs) and then realize that your "average" car isn't going to come anywhere near 4500 lbs. As for the relationship between tire volume and max load - I know I've got the numbers around here some where...

> How would an insurance company view an accident if they
> knew you were using tires that did not meet the load
> balance requirements of the original equipment......

See above. Anyone altering tire width and height (and doing so while maintaining the *same rolling diameter* of their OEM tire) will not ever end up with tires that don't have a load rating necessary to support the vehicle.

Bender2000
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join:2002-05-06
J7W 8E4

Bender2000 to Robrr

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to Robrr
said by Robrr:

said by Bender2000:

Robr, if you lived in Quebec, they wouldn't be legal between Dec 15 and Mar 15...

As of this year, the winter tire law applies to trucks. LT/AT tires no longer considered acceptable. In Quebec, the tire must have the snowflake in the mountain symbol, including trucks.

Good news is that I don't live in Quebec

I do find it interesting however that Quebec is more stringent about winter tires than a place like BC. BC only requires an M+S tire to drive through the mountains during the winter.

To be honest, it's a two-fold reason. a) drivers in Quebec suck (mostly). So, winter tires will lessen their suckage. and b) money grab. nuff said
Bender2000

Bender2000 to koira

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to koira
said by koira:

said by Bender2000:

...

No need to wait for the costco sale, there is a $70 off Michelin promo on now to Dec 15 , applies to any retailer except costco
»www.michelinpromo.ca/

I'd like to explain the $70 off thing regarding costco.

For Michelin, Bridgestone, etc, there's a mail in rebate that you can use when you buy your tires from a retailer.

Costco is a wholesaler, so they're already getting the tires at a reduced cost which is why you cannot use a mail-in rebate when you purchase tires from Costco. But then, you don't need to because Costco passes that $70 mail-in rebate you would otherwise get from a retailer to you as an instant rebate. Personally, I'd rather get the instant rebate over the mail-in.

koira
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join:2004-02-16

koira to Robrr

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said by Robrr:

Costco is still matching the $70 off promo. Thats why I bought the tires I did.

said by Bender2000:

I'd like to explain the $70 off thing regarding costco.

For Michelin, Bridgestone, etc, there's a mail in rebate that you can use when you buy your tires from a retailer.

Costco is a wholesaler, so they're already getting the tires at a reduced cost which is why you cannot use a mail-in rebate when you purchase tires from Costco. But then, you don't need to because Costco passes that $70 mail-in rebate you would otherwise get from a retailer to you as an instant rebate. Personally, I'd rather get the instant rebate over the mail-in.

Understood, just pointing out the options

dirtyjeffer0
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join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0 to sm5w2

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said by sm5w2:

And yes, you will get better "get me out of this snow drift" performance with narrower tires.

not necessarily...it is more about the tire itself, than whether it is narrow or not...as i said, no, don't get 265s, but a good proper set of winter tires will work equally in the snow and better on slippery ice than a skinnier tire would...overall handling and ride quality will also be better with the proper tire size, as that is how your car was designed (with specific tire sizes).

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

Anav

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Good to know, so who started the whole skinnier tire myth??
peterboro (banned)
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join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

peterboro (banned)

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Henry with the Model T. Except it wasn't a myth but fact.

dirtyjeffer0
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London, ON

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said by Anav:

Good to know, so who started the whole skinnier tire myth??

skinnier tires were better when we only had one type of tire (regular standard tires)...as well, some rally type autocross vehicles that race on ice use specially designed tires that are skinny...however, those are specific tires for that application (ice racing), are spiked, and the smaller tire allows for reduced weight.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

Premium Member

In snow skinnier tires will work better the theory being they'll dig down until (hopefully) they reach a surface with more traction. You can't deny the mathematical fact that there is more vehicle weight per square inch.

I've always gone with a smaller rim and narrower winter tire on my vehicles. An additional benefit is they cost less than the OE size.

dirtyjeffer0
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dirtyjeffer0

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i already mentioned the weight aspect, but that is just one part of it...tread pattern and rubber composition are also important...you can have a skinny tire, but a regular all season one, and still be easily stuck in snow...you can have a dedicated winter tire, the "standard size" your vehicle calls for, with a good tread pattern and be just fine...the tread pattern and composition of a winter tire are far more beneficial than the skinny tire theory...the skinny tire issue, as i mentioned before, was from before winter tires "existed" (at least in terms of their availability and advanced design today).

EUS
Kill cancer
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join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS to Bender2000

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I'm not a fan of the ever-changing law relating to what constitutes a snow tire.
This year the tires have to have a snowflake superimposed on mountains, otherwise it's a $200-300 fine.
Even if mine are not legal, I'll take my chances, I'm not dropping more $$ when I already have perfectly good tires.

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Dartmouth, NS

Anav to dirtyjeffer0

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Thanks DJ.
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr to dirtyjeffer0

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You can also have the inverse situation where the guy with winter tires is stuck.

Wider tires have a tendency to want to float rather than cut through. This is why mud tires for example have a large contact patch as it will help you float over the mud. The aggressive tread pattern provides the grip. Muds also work incredibly well in a cold dry snow for the same reason.

That said they suck for southern Ontario winters because typically there's a ton of slush and other crap on the roads and that flotation aspect prevents the tire from getting down to pavement and getting good grip

For truly best results, you want a narrow winter rated tire. This will give you maximum grip.

dirtyjeffer0
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dirtyjeffer0

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good winter tires have large flexible tread blocks with deep channels/grooves to evacuate the slush/water and allow the actual tread to reach the road surface (or ice if it is icy) and provide the grip needed...for regular vehicles, you want the proper sized tire by a quality (top rated) brand...getting the skinny tire is what we did 30 years ago...not the case any more.

Iron_Mike
@198.2.70.x

Iron_Mike to Bender2000

Anon

to Bender2000
3 years ago, I purchased a set of X-Ice2 for my SO's Altima. At the time, they were the best winter tire that I had ever driven on and I couldn't say enough good things about them.

Then, last fall I purchased a set of X-Ice3 for my EX35. They are superior in every way to the X-Ice2 and I can't say enough good things about them.

If you do choose to go with X-Ice3, you will never regret the decision.

Also, FWIW, I've been dealing with tirerack for the past many years. I have the tires shipped to one of their recommended installers just across the border from me and It's always worked out well.
If you're so inclined, you could have them shipped to Plattsburgh.
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr to dirtyjeffer0

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to dirtyjeffer0
Rather than continuing this for pages, I'm just going to defer to the experts:

»www.tirerack.com/winter/ ··· chid=126
»blog.kaltire.com/how-wil ··· -winter/

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Dartmouth, NS

Anav

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All opinion Robrr. What I want is access to actual studies using recent winter tires and compounds.

dirtyjeffer0
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dirtyjeffer0 to Robrr

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i never said to get wide low profile tires...i simply said to stick with a size similar to what your came with...most people often drop a size (i did) to save a bit of money, and most of those tires are often slightly "skinnier"...but we're talking 1cm in most cases...you don't go from 205/45/17 tires to 155/85/14...you would likely get 195/65/16 as an example...yes, the tire is skinnier, but it is still close to the stock size.
peterboro (banned)
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Peterborough, ON

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As someone who used to buy skinny hockey puck hard deep lug tread back in the day I am with DJ on this one.