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MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

2 edits

MasterBash

Member

Diagnosing packet loss problem

So this is really confusing me.

Whenever I play League of Legends on Electronic Box, I get no packet loss. When I connect to North York, Canada on Private Internet Access (OpenVPN), I get no packet loss.

At my university (UdeM), I get packet loss with and without the VPN when I play LoL. To be precise, I get high burst of packet loss, according to Netanalyzer.

I ran Netanalyzer, on Electronic Box, everything is good, on my university connection, I get high burst of packet loss.

Even more confusing is that when I run pingtest.net, all is good 95% of the time. Maybe that is because of high burst of packet loss that I get issues 5% of the time. This is to New York and Ontario servers. Its not constant packet loss, everything is good for a while then I randomly freeze in LoL for 1-2 seconds then everything goes back to normal. It happens every 30-60 seconds on average (depends if its during peak hours or not).

However, today I decided to install CS:GO again to troubleshoot a little bit further, I connected to 2 servers based in Montreal and I had no lag whatsoever. I played for about one hour.

So now, what do I do? I have no idea. It seems to work fine when I play CS:GO on servers based in Montreal. Ping and trace route are blocked, so there is no need trying to run that. Maybe CS:GO handles packet loss better? I don't know.

Hope someone has a solution, this is frustrating. -_-

EDIT: Thread title, I felt like creating a new word

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Re: Diagnosticing packet loss problem

More info needed.

Post a few winmtr of the servers when you're having issues.
MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

1 edit

MasterBash

Member

Re: Diagnosing packet loss problem

Not sure what you want me to do with it. Pings and trace routes are blocked. I get 100% loss on 2nd hop. It says no response from host.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Re: Diagnosticing packet loss problem

Winmtr try it, post results here.
MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

MasterBash

Member

Re: Diagnosing packet loss problem

|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| 192.168.1.1 - 0 | 55 | 55 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

Like I mentionned in my previous reply, it doesn't work (I ran winmtr).

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

Is your router setup to block outgoing icmp traffic or is the university blocking icmp? If it's your router change the setting as blocking outgoing icmp traffic is pointless. Are you double NATed when connected through the university?

If I'm reading you right, you're connected to someone else's private network, maybe talking to their net admins should be the first step.
MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

1 edit

MasterBash

Member

University is blocking icmp. Also, I am not double NAT'd.
I already spoke to them. They did a ping test for like 2 hours to a few LoL servers and found problems closer to the LoL servers. However, they said they also tested up to 2/3 of the way to the LoL servers and found no problem.

I am not sure what to think of that because :
1. All is fine on Electronic Box with and without VPN to the LoL servers.
2. I get high burst of packet loss on pingtest.net, servers located in Ontario and New York, with and without VPN on the University connection.
3. I can play CS:GO fine on the university connection. However, I am not sure if its simply the game dealing with packet loss better than LoL or something.

I am confused as to where they found the LoL servers IP address... I cant find a list of the NA servers on their website. They moved the Oregon recently...

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

Well I doubt the university takes the same routes as EB. CS:GO being in Montreal may be on a network that has direct peering with the university which i suspect goes through RISQ (AS376). Since you have no diagnostic info, it's hard to say one way or another.

As for determining the server addresses, it's fairly trivial using normal diagnostic tools such tcpdump or wireshark. I am sure they have diagnostic tools I have never even heard of due to the size and complexity of their networks.

I hate to say it, unless the university fixes your problem or you connect via a VPN that is not affected by the problem you may be out of luck.

You may also want to try and setup a VPN server at home or on your home router and try routing via EB that way.
MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

MasterBash

Member

Ya, I am gonna set up a VPN server on the Ebox connection, see if that fixes it.

rodjames
Premium Member
join:2010-06-19

rodjames to MasterBash

Premium Member

to MasterBash
why are you playing games over vpn
MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

MasterBash

Member

I get better ping with it.
MasterBash

MasterBash

Member

So, I connected through a VPN (PPTP, thats all I had access to this week, I can set up an OpenVPN server next week) to a videotron connection that I know works fine for LoL, as I played on it not long ago. I still get packet loss, so if the routing from Videotron to LoL is fine, that leaves one thing... University -> Videotron appears to have a problem somewhere. Unfortunately it is very hard to pin point exactly where, because I have no idea what the routing from the University connection to Videotron looks like.
MasterBash

MasterBash

Member

»hackertarget.com/ip-trace/

1.|-- router2-nac.linode.com 0.0% 4 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.6 0.0
2.|-- 207.99.53.45 0.0% 4 0.4 0.9 0.3 2.6 1.0
3.|-- 0.e1-1.tbr2.tl9.nac.net 0.0% 4 1.4 1.5 1.4 1.5 0.0
4.|-- ae-30.r06.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 0.0% 4 2.0 1.9 1.9 2.0 0.0
5.|-- ae55.edge2.NewYork1.Level3.net 0.0% 4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 0.0
6.|-- ae-11-11.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net 0.0% 4 48.5 43.0 28.6 48.8 9.6
7.|-- ae-11-11.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net 25.0% 4 19.9 145.3 19.9 213.8 108.7
8.|-- RESEAU-DINF.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net 0.0% 4 9.2 9.2 9.2 9.2 0.0
9.|-- 192.77.63.70 0.0% 4 9.2 9.2 9.2 9.3 0.0
10.|-- umontreal-internet.dmtrl-um.risq.net 0.0% 4 9.3 25.3 9.3 69.8 29.7
11.|-- umontreal-gw.risq.net 0.0% 4 9.4 9.4 9.3 9.4 0.0
12.|-- udem-internet-membre.risq.net 0.0% 4 9.4 9.4 9.4 9.4 0.0
13.|-- ??? 100.0 4 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

1.|-- router2-nac.linode.com 0.0% 4 0.6 0.6 0.6 0.7 0.0
2.|-- 207.99.53.45 0.0% 4 0.3 3.3 0.3 12.2 5.8
3.|-- 0.e1-1.tbr2.tl9.nac.net 0.0% 4 1.4 1.5 1.4 1.6 0.0
4.|-- ae-30.r06.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 0.0% 4 1.9 2.0 1.9 2.0 0.0
5.|-- ae55.edge2.NewYork1.Level3.net 0.0% 4 1.4 1.5 1.4 1.7 0.0
6.|-- ae-11-11.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net 50.0% 4 71.0 113.5 71.0 156.0 60.1
7.|-- ae-11-11.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net 75.0% 4 56.6 56.6 56.6 56.6 0.0
8.|-- RESEAU-DINF.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net 0.0% 4 9.1 9.2 9.1 9.4 0.0
9.|-- 192.77.63.70 0.0% 4 11.7 11.3 9.3 12.9 1.4
10.|-- umontreal-internet.dmtrl-um.risq.net 0.0% 4 9.3 9.3 9.3 9.5 0.0
11.|-- umontreal-gw.risq.net 0.0% 4 9.3 9.4 9.3 9.5 0.0
12.|-- udem-internet-membre.risq.net 0.0% 4 9.6 9.5 9.4 9.6 0.0
13.|-- ??? 100.0 4 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Now, its Level3, how do I get it fixed? Do I contact RISQ?

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

Where to start. Doing an MTR from an online site to your IP does is not a diagnostic between your IP and the server you appear to be having issues with unless they are the one and the same. There is no guarantee that two different destinations will take the same path.

Next, I see no evidence from your mtr that there is any packet loss as routers may de-prioritize or limit icmp traffic. If there were an issue of packet loss due to a faulty or congested router, you would see a loss for all nodes commencing with the problematic node.

Read »www.linode.com/docs/netw ··· with-mtr
MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

1 edit

MasterBash

Member

I am aware of that. I tried a total of 6 servers and the only packet loss that I got was from ae-11-11.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net .

From those servers, there have been multiple Level 3 routers from Montreal with no problem. Why would ae-11-11.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net be the only one de-prioritizing the the icmp?

If you look it up on google too, it seems multiple people have issues with that one.

But you are right, packets dont magically reappear.

JAMESMTL
Premium Member
join:2014-09-02

JAMESMTL

Premium Member

You can't make a claim that either hop 6 or 7 is faulty if you have zero packet loss on hops 8-12. Those routers are doing their job and passing ALL of the traffic they receives. Not only that, your traffic is being routed in a timely manner. New Jersey to Montreal in 10 ms is faster than what you would expect with let's say Videotron.

Show me confirmed recent MTRs showing packet loss commencing at that node and all nodes beyond and you may have a better argument.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Core routers commonly de-prioritize icmp packets directed at them.
As mentioned above, all packets are being delivered on the hops after, so there is in fact no loss. This is just the way things on the Internet work. To be fair, core equipment has a lot more important things to do then respond to every icmp request targeted at it.
chaseme
join:2011-09-12
Terrasse-Vaudreuil, QC

chaseme to MasterBash

Member

to MasterBash
Just popping in to say your not the only one having issues when passing through car2.montreal2.level3.net. I see close to 50% packet loss response from this hop, but no loss beyond it. However any traffic heading through this hop either times out completely or has severe loss (Netflix is SD only and a 100Mbp line etc).

Very frustrating since support personnel get to ignore us due to no loss beyond, meanwhile the sheer amount of Level3 complaints globally can't be ignored. In almost all cases it's a very similar MTR result.
MasterBash
join:2001-08-06
Montreal, QC

2 edits

MasterBash

Member

The thing is, I get bursts of packet loss. During a ICMP test, it means it will probably drop only one packet once in a while, which may show as 1% packet loss over a 1000 packet test. I don't know if 1% is within the tolerance or if it should be 0%. I am not sure. However, its much harder to diagnose burst of packet loss as its random, but more packets at once that are being dropped. Tracert is only one packet at a time, unless you set it much faster.

For example, if I play LoL, it can be fine for 30 secs then suddently freeze for one second. I don't know how many packets are dropped in that one second, but its enough to affect the game. Running ICMP test and sending only one packet per second will probably show only one packet loss at the time of the drop, if that makes sense.

Funny thing is while doing those tests I noticed a 2% packet loss on wired (probably my NIC), 0.2% packet loss on 2.4ghz (more or less 30AP's around me) and 0% on 5ghz using the Asus n66u. I decided to use 5ghz for now.

However that didnt change anything whatsoever. Its definitely somewhere in Quebec as it affects soooo many things.