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haroldo
join:2004-01-16
USA

haroldo to mikev

Member

to mikev

Re: Apple Pay survey

said by mikev:

... (realizing that smaller shops/stores may not upgrade their equipment to support NFC as fast as major corporations will).
...

The timing of Apple Pay's launch is perfect as there is a change in the credit card law.
quote:
...
Part of the October 2015 deadline in our roadmap is what’s known as the ‘liability shift.’ Whenever card fraud happens, we need to determine who is liable for the costs. When the liability shift happens, what will change is that if there is an incidence of card fraud, whichever party has the lesser technology will bear the liability.

So if a merchant is still using the old system, they can still run a transaction with a swipe and a signature. But they will be liable for any fraudulent transactions if the customer has a chip card. And the same goes the other way – if the merchant has a new terminal, but the bank hasn’t issued a chip and PIN card to the customer, the bank would be liable.

The key point of a liability shift is not actually to shift liability around the market. It’s to create co-ordination in the market, so you have issuers and merchants investing in the migration at the same time. This way, we’re not shifting fraud around within the system; we’re driving fraud out of the system...

»blogs.wsj.com/corporate- ··· it-card/

So, basically, with swipe and sign going away, every merchant, right now is, or should be, in the process of addressing the change over in hardware. It might be easier for a small merchant to upgrade his store (?? $800 for a scanner and three hour lesson) than a large chain with thousands of locations and tens of thousands of employees to train. I think the enthusiastic response to Apple Pay will induce most small merchants to switch...and they might switch sooner as they can be more nimble than, say a Sears can

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx to haroldo

Premium Member

to haroldo
I used Apple Pay a couple times at Home Depot this weekend. I like it!

I will definitely be avoiding Walmart, CVS and Rite Aid. I don't appreciate them disabling a (hopefully) more secure method of payment that was otherwise working.

gjrhine
join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC

gjrhine to haroldo

Member

to haroldo
Wells Fargo is sending me a debit card for my checking account and Apple Pay. So I'll have that and AMEX Delta Skymiles.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert to purplegoatee

Premium Member

to purplegoatee
I was able to add my USAA debit card to Apple Pay. Yay! Now I can feel safe using my debit card without worrying that my number will be stolen.

Octavean
MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY

Octavean

MVM

said by Robert:

I was able to add my USAA debit card to Apple Pay. Yay! Now I can feel safe using my debit card without worrying that my number will be stolen.

After reading your post I decided to try adding my debit card as well,.....worked fine.

Sweet!

pcdebb
birdbrain
Premium Member
join:2000-12-03
Brandon, FL
ARRIS DG1670

pcdebb to Robert

Premium Member

to Robert
I still don't follow. Are you saying Wallet "transmits" my card number? when I get a receipt, it has a number, but not the card on file, it sort of uses a virtual number of sorts, but not the card on file. I've used various cards from various issuers and they've always worked.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

1 edit

Thinkdiff

MVM,

Google Wallet is very different than Apple's system in a few key ways. They have two main things in common - they use NFC and virtual card numbers.

Google issues you a virtual credit card number (I'm not sure if this is transaction specific) for which Google is the payment processor. When you pay with NFC, it transmits this virtual card number. That info makes its way to Google for verification. Google itself then charges your actual credit card in a separate transaction and sends a reply back to the merchant if that transaction goes through successfully.

So your actual card number is never seen by the merchant (same as Apple Pay), but Google has a full history of your transactions + your credit card data stored on their servers. As far as I can tell, they also have to pay for the second transaction. So far, Google has been eating that cost, but who knows about the future.

Both approaches have pros and cons, but Google's system relies much more heavily on their own system and security rather than making use of the banks' own systems.

pcdebb
birdbrain
Premium Member
join:2000-12-03
Brandon, FL
ARRIS DG1670

pcdebb

Premium Member

okay, that makes it a little clearer. When I put money on my Google Wallet MC, it charges a fee. In the beginning it never did, so maybe that's where they get it back? and the virtual number I believe is transaction specific. I'll have to verify that tho.

haroldo
join:2004-01-16
USA

haroldo

Member

Google Wallet Sees Surge in Usage Alongside Apple Pay Launchhttp://www.macrumors.com/2014/11/05/googla-wallet-apple-pay/

gjrhine
join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC

gjrhine to pcdebb

Member

to pcdebb
said by pcdebb:

When I put money on my Google Wallet MC, it charges a fee.

Is this a credit card? Put money on it for what?

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

Google Wallet is a bit of a strange beast.. it tries to do everything. When you setup Wallet, you get a virtual MasterCard that acts as your "Google Wallet Balance". You can use this balance to send people money, pay for things online / in-store, or you can even get a physical debit card that draws from your GW balance. This is similar to Paypal and their Paypal debit cards. Adding funds via credit/debit card to the GW balance requires a 2.9% fee. Bank transfers are free.

When you use NFC to pay in-store and select one of your actual credit cards (instead of the GW balance), it generates a separate virtual MasterCard number and processes the transaction as I described a few posts back. This transaction should also have a fee (probably less than 2.9%), but Google seems to be eating this cost right now. I don't see why they'd continue to do that if Wallet becomes very popular, though. Google presumably has to pay for every credit/debit backed NFC payment whereas Apple makes money on each transaction... wonder who has the better negotiators?

An incredibly lengthy FAQ is available here:
»www.google.com/wallet/faq.html

gjrhine
join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC

gjrhine

Member

said by Thinkdiff:

Apple makes money on each transaction

Very little though. Does Google Wallet have ad supported revenue?

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff

MVM,

said by gjrhine:

said by Thinkdiff:

Apple makes money on each transaction

Very little though. Does Google Wallet have ad supported revenue?

Good point. I wouldn't be surprised if the value of the data they gain from having all your transaction history far out-weighs the small fee to process the transaction.

Google Wallet doesn't have ads, but they use the info collected through Wallet in other places (targeted advertising):
said by »wallet.google.com/legald ··· cynotice :
Sharing between GPC and its affiliates of information about your creditworthiness for their everyday business purposes; and/or,
Our affiliates marketing their products or services to you based on your personal information that we collect and share with them. This information includes your account history with us.
You can opt-out of some data sharing (in particular, the two areas above), but obviously not all of it.

haroldo
join:2004-01-16
USA

haroldo to gjrhine

Member

to gjrhine
said by gjrhine:

said by Thinkdiff:

Apple makes money on each transaction

Very little though....

As stated earlier in this thread, they also are assuming the risk of fraud, too.
While it appears that Apple Pay is a pretty secure, locked down system, I'm sure there are those that are working hard to hack or crack it.
If someone is capable of perpetrating a successful fraud, Apple eats some of the losses.
It takes an awful lot of "pennies per transaction" to cover the thousands or tens of thousands of dollars of losses that can occur.

gjrhine
join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC

gjrhine

Member

Well good luck hacking acct #s that are not there and fingerprints that do not exist (only characteristics of them).

haroldo
join:2004-01-16
USA

haroldo

Member

said by gjrhine:

Well good luck hacking acct #s that are not there and fingerprints that do not exist (only characteristics of them).

Oh, I agree, it seems impenetrable, but never say never.
Some day, someone is going to figure out a way to 'get through'.
I don't think there ever was or ever will be a lock that can't be picked...IMHO (or have been watching too many Mission Impossible movies?)

gjrhine
join:2001-12-12
Pawleys Island, SC

gjrhine

Member

I like the odds over Google Wallet. Or losing my credit cards. Or my wallet. Or a cashier writing down my digits.

IhatemyISP
MM1 Corbski
Premium Member
join:2003-01-27
Hampton, VA

IhatemyISP to haroldo

Premium Member

to haroldo
I've only been able to use it once, at a Wallgreens, but it was fast and excellent.

I will say though that the cashier hadn't seen anyone use it, and he was perplexed at how easily it worked.

I really hope gas stations in my area start using it.
Liberty
Premium Member
join:2005-06-12
Arizona

Liberty to haroldo

Premium Member

to haroldo
I don't see AP being very successful with blue collar types like me.

Can't say how many times I have tried to store my thumb print, even all 5 fingers with same thumb, but after a day or two it won't accept my thumb any longer.

My fingers are rough from my work and ground in minor stains.
I had best luck using my pinky finger on left hand but it too eventually fails.

Would be nice if we could punch in our unlock code to enable the transaction.
Maybe by the time I am ready for an upgrade from my 5s more progress will have solved for me....