dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
11184
fishstix
join:2014-08-24

fishstix

Member

[Electrical] Change breaker from 15amp to 20amp

I would like to change the breaker in my living room from 15amp, to 20amp.

The house is 4 years old, and everything is using 12 gauge wire. I also want to change one of the outlets in the living room to 20amp GFI.

Is this OK to do? I have been reading conflicts on the web. I know my dining room is wired with 12 gauge wire, 15amp outlets, but the breaker in the box is 20amps.

Thanks for your time

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell

Premium Member

[Electrical] Re: Change breaker from 15amp to 20amp

If all the Waring's 12gauge then go right ahead and change the breaker to 20 amp if you want to. 15 amp outlets are perfectly legal to use on a 20 amp circuit. Why do you want to put a GFCI outlet in your living room?

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984 to fishstix

Premium Member

to fishstix
Per National Electric Code you need 12 gauge copper wire for a 20 amp circuit.
So if you have 12 gauge copper wire then you can use a 20 amp circuit breaker.
NEC 240.4
You can also see this guide: »dbs.idaho.gov/programs/e ··· hure.pdf

This also: »www.inkling.com/read/nfp ··· reader-1
12 AWG copper = 20 amps

If aluminum or copper clad then it cannot support 20 amps.

NEC 210.21 (B) 1, 2, and 3
Says you can mix 15 amp outlets and 20 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit.
If you only have one outlet on the circuit then it must be a 20 amps outlet.
NEC 210.23 Permissible Loads
You can also have lighting on the 20 amp circuit.
r81984

1 recommendation

r81984 to Msradell

Premium Member

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

If all the Waring's 12gauge then go right ahead and change the breaker to 20 amp if you want to. 15 amp outlets are perfectly legal to use on a 20 amp circuit. Why do you want to put a GFCI outlet in your living room?

Im going to guess it is to run a portable hot tub in his living room, hopefully to fill with women.

If he has a basement I would make sure it can support the weight of the hot tub.

chamberc
Premium Member
join:2008-08-05
Addison, TX

chamberc to fishstix

Premium Member

to fishstix

Re: [Electrical] Change breaker from 15amp to 20amp

said by fishstix:

I would like to change the breaker in my living room from 15amp, to 20amp.

The house is 4 years old, and everything is using 12 gauge wire. I also want to change one of the outlets in the living room to 20amp GFI.

Is this OK to do? I have been reading conflicts on the web. I know my dining room is wired with 12 gauge wire, 15amp outlets, but the breaker in the box is 20amps.

Thanks for your time

I just spent 2 months in our new home yanking out 18 GFCI outlets and replacing them with functional old fashion outlets. Why would you want to add them????????

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

1 recommendation

robbin

Mod

Why did you want to take them out? It doesn't sound like a wise decision to me.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro to fishstix

Premium Member

to fishstix
said by fishstix:

I also want to change one of the outlets in the living room to 20amp GFI

What appliance do you have that it NEEDS a 20A outlet? I haven't seen any... not that there may not be, but all common household appliances require 15A or less.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

Window a/c?

Sly
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Tennessee

1 recommendation

Sly to cowboyro

Premium Member

to cowboyro
said by cowboyro:

What appliance do you have that it NEEDS a 20A outlet? I haven't seen any... not that there may not be, but all common household appliances require 15A or less.

Saltwater aquarium. I have a GFCI on mine...
Body Count
join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH

Body Count to fishstix

Member

to fishstix
Maybe a 1200 watt microwave next to the couch so you don't have to get up to cook hotpockets?

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

7 recommendations

nunya to robbin

MVM

to robbin
Tomorrow, I'm going to get up and throw away all these damn digital clocks. Then I'm ripping out these newfangled "touch tone" phones and putting rotary phones back in.
If I have enough energy when I'm done, I plan to yell at whippersnappers and complain about my ailments.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan to r81984

Premium Member

to r81984

Re: [Electrical] Re: Change breaker from 15amp to 20amp

said by r81984:

Per National Electric Code you need 12 gauge copper wire for a 20 amp circuit.
So if you have 12 gauge copper wire then you can use a 20 amp circuit breaker.

You can also have lighting on the 20 amp circuit.

Without knowing where the OP is; impossible to say...

It's not accepable under Canadian code, for instance, to have lighting on a general purpose 20A ckt - and since the OP's location isn't posted, don't know what code applies...

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by LazMan:

Without knowing where the OP is

Near Raleigh, NC
fishstix
join:2014-08-24

2 recommendations

fishstix

Member

Re: [Electrical] Change breaker from 15amp to 20amp

Thank you everyone for the feedback.

Can I run a 20 amp outlets on the 20 amp breaker?

I am in Clayton, NC

GFCI, because it going to be for a tropical fish aquarium, though I do like the hot tub idea, not sure that would go over well with my wife.

The more I think about this, even switching out the breaker not going to solve the problem. Reading everything on the manufacture site for the aquarium hardware, startup amps on everything is around 22.7, so with that being the case, I think I am going to need to use the current outlet, and have an electrican run a new decitated outlet and breaker.

I think that my best option, what do you guys think?
LittleBill
join:2013-05-24

LittleBill

Member

circuit breakers can handle surges for brief periods, what does the aquarium manual say you need for power?

whizkid3
MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

whizkid3 to fishstix

MVM

to fishstix
said by fishstix:

I would like to change the breaker in my living room from 15amp, to 20amp.

How do you know this? Did you open up the walls and inspect the wiring from end-to-end?

I sincerely doubt that the contractor wasted money on 12 AWG copper wire for a 15A circuit; when 14 AWG would work just fine and be a lot less expensive. (Especially in the last four years with the price of copper wire through the roof.)

Why do you want to do this? Are you over-loading the existing circuit? Is the circuit breaker tripping? If so, why not simply add a new 20A circuit to where you need it? Please respond to these questions; thanks.

My answer is no; you can not. Get a qualfied licensed electrician.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA to chamberc

Premium Member

to chamberc
said by chamberc:

I just spent 2 months in our new home yanking out 18 GFCI outlets and replacing them with functional old fashion outlets. Why would you want to add them????????

Why would you want to remove the GFI receptacles that provide a very high level of safety?
fishstix
join:2014-08-24

fishstix to whizkid3

Member

to whizkid3
said by whizkid3:

said by fishstix:

I would like to change the breaker in my living room from 15amp, to 20amp.

How do you know this? Did you open up the walls and inspect the wiring from end-to-end?

I sincerely doubt that the contractor wasted money on 12 AWG copper wire for a 15A circuit; when 14 AWG would work just fine and be a lot less expensive. (Especially in the last four years with the price of copper wire through the roof.)

Why do you want to do this? Are you over-loading the existing circuit? Is the circuit breaker tripping? If so, why not simply add a new 20A circuit to where you need it? Please respond to these questions; thanks.

My answer is no; you can not. Get a qualfied licensed electrician.

I called the builder and he told me. I did not look at it myself.

I am setting up an aquarium and with all the equipment it will be more than 15amps.

After reading everyone posts and thinking about it more I agree that the best solution is to run a new 20A circuit. Though I cannot afford that right now, assume it will be several 100 dollars, so I plan to run heavy duty cord from room next door which is on another breaker. Won't look the greatest, but only solution, until I can have licensed electrician come out.
danj34
join:2006-11-16
Athol, MA

danj34

Member

said by fishstix:

I called the builder and he told me. I did not look at it myself.

Verify the wiring is truly 12 gauge or call in a qualified electrician.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell to whizkid3

Premium Member

to whizkid3
said by fishstix:

The more I think about this, even switching out the breaker not going to solve the problem. Reading everything on the manufacture site for the aquarium hardware, startup amps on everything is around 22.7, so with that being the case, I think I am going to need to use the current outlet, and have an electrican run a new decitated outlet and breaker.

Everything isn't going to start up at once however so it won't be a problem. Also as the OP said breakers can handle a surge that won't be a problem
said by whizkid3:

I sincerely doubt that the contractor wasted money on 12 AWG copper wire for a 15A circuit; when 14 AWG would work just fine and be a lot less expensive. (Especially in the last four years with the price of copper wire through the roof.)
My answer is no; you can not. Get a qualfied licensed electrician.

Whiz, your assuming facts that are not known. The OP stated that everything was wired with 12gauge wire and you have no facts to prove otherwise. He may have had the home built that way for all you know.

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

robbin to fishstix

Mod

to fishstix
said by fishstix:

Though I cannot afford that right now, assume it will be several 100 dollars, so I plan to run heavy duty cord from room next door which is on another breaker.

It would be fairly simple to tap into that circuit and add an outlet to it in the living room if they share a common wall. That is something you could do yourself if you are somewhat handy with tools.
Quattrohead
Premium Member
join:2005-02-09

Quattrohead to danj34

Premium Member

to danj34
I would not trust the builders word on the 12 gauge, that's for sure.
That 22Amp inrush current might be if everything turns on at once, can you do the pump first, then heater etc ?

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

robbin

Mod

Or perhaps the requirements could be reduced.

OP -- are you using LED lighting? If not, that may be a better investment than a dedicated circuit.

whizkid3
MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

whizkid3 to fishstix

MVM

to fishstix
. dup
whizkid3

whizkid3 to Msradell

MVM

to Msradell
said by Msradell:

Whiz, your assuming facts that are not known.

I didn't assume anything. I doubted it. But since you are concerned, suggest you re-read this:
said by fishstix:

everything is using 12 gauge wire

said by whizkid3:

How do you know this?

said by fishstix:

I called the builder and he told me. I did not look at it myself.

nuff' said. Proceeding with up-sizing existing circuit breakers on this basis is not smart.

chamberc
Premium Member
join:2008-08-05
Addison, TX

chamberc

Premium Member

said by chamberc:

said by fishstix:

I would like to change the breaker in my living room from 15amp, to 20amp.

The house is 4 years old, and everything is using 12 gauge wire. I also want to change one of the outlets in the living room to 20amp GFI.

Is this OK to do? I have been reading conflicts on the web. I know my dining room is wired with 12 gauge wire, 15amp outlets, but the breaker in the box is 20amps.

Thanks for your time

I just spent 2 months in our new home yanking out 18 GFCI outlets and replacing them with functional old fashion outlets. Why would you want to add them????????

The main reason is, every time it rains, and you have temporary low voltage lights, they all trip.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

4 edits

r81984 to fishstix

Premium Member

to fishstix
said by fishstix:

said by whizkid3:

said by fishstix:

I would like to change the breaker in my living room from 15amp, to 20amp.

How do you know this? Did you open up the walls and inspect the wiring from end-to-end?

I sincerely doubt that the contractor wasted money on 12 AWG copper wire for a 15A circuit; when 14 AWG would work just fine and be a lot less expensive. (Especially in the last four years with the price of copper wire through the roof.)

Why do you want to do this? Are you over-loading the existing circuit? Is the circuit breaker tripping? If so, why not simply add a new 20A circuit to where you need it? Please respond to these questions; thanks.

My answer is no; you can not. Get a qualfied licensed electrician.

I called the builder and he told me. I did not look at it myself.

I am setting up an aquarium and with all the equipment it will be more than 15amps.

After reading everyone posts and thinking about it more I agree that the best solution is to run a new 20A circuit. Though I cannot afford that right now, assume it will be several 100 dollars, so I plan to run heavy duty cord from room next door which is on another breaker. Won't look the greatest, but only solution, until I can have licensed electrician come out.

You said you verified with the builder that it is 12 gauge. When you open up the panel or your outlet you can also verify it is 12 gauge as the builder said.
An electrician cannot verify very inch, but the builder can tell you what they used.

You can use a 20 amp breaker with your 12 awg copper wire. No need to run a an extension cord.
As for the start up amps being 22. 7 amps, I doubt you will ever blow the breaker as the breaker should not trip from that little overage on startup amps.
If it does then you know you will have to do other things if you have to keep resetting the breaker.
Now what does the manual exactly say for breaker size??? Does it say to use a 20 amp breaker?
If not then what kind of loads are in that 22.7amp calculation?? Heaters? Transformer to DC pump? An single phase AC pump? Does the pump have its own fuse?
A 20 amp breaker should be fine for up to a 1/2 horsepower motor at up to 90ft from the breaker. I would doubt an aquarium uses a 1/2 HP motor or higher so it wont need a dedicate circuit.
I would seriously think that running a dedicated 20 amp circuit would be a complete waste of money unless this is some extreme industrial aquarium pump system which the manual would indicate.

Also, from experience in the manufacturing world hiring a "licensed" electrician does not mean much. There are plenty of electricians that passed their test but dont know what they are doing. All you need to make sure is you follow the code for your area and what the manual says for the equipment. This is not rocket science, just basic electricity and code knowledge.

Also, if you did not buy the aquarium filter system yet then buy one with a pump that can work on a 15 amp circuit. Then you dont have to do anything but plug it in to your current outlet.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell

Premium Member

said by r81984:


A 20 amp breaker should be fine for up to a 1/2 horsepower motor at up to 90ft from the breaker. I would doubt an aquarium uses a 1/2 HP motor or higher so it wont need a dedicate circuit.

A 20 amp breaker would be fine for a motor a lot bigger than 1/2 hp at 90 feet! A saltwater aquarium like the OP is going to be setting up not only has a pump motor but quite a bit of other equipment that runs constantly such as heaters, maybe a UV sterilizer, significant lighting and other items.

EGeezer
Premium Member
join:2002-08-04
Midwest

1 edit

EGeezer to whizkid3

Premium Member

to whizkid3
+1 - trust, but verify.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya to fishstix

MVM

to fishstix
said by fishstix:

The more I think about this, even switching out the breaker not going to solve the problem. Reading everything on the manufacture site for the aquarium hardware, startup amps on everything is around 22.7, so with that being the case, I think I am going to need to use the current outlet, and have an electrican run a new decitated outlet and breaker.

Probably the best solution.