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otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

wifi explanation please

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It's been said that 1 ,6 ,11 are the best possible channels, even in crowded neighbourhoods when those channels are.... crowded.

I'm getting best throughput on.... 3! Inssider is telling me that I'm making the wrong choice.

I'm curious as to how it works.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

1 edit

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by otter8:

It's been said that 1 ,6 ,11 are the best possible channels, even in crowded neighbourhoods when those channels are.... crowded.

I'm getting best throughput on.... 3! Inssider is telling me that I'm making the wrong choice.

I'm curious as to how it works.

Seems like a lot of your neighbors are terrible(overlapping channels/many channel bonding).

The reason you may be getting getting throughput right now is because the other networks aren't active. You're probably just able to stomp all over them. When they begin to be in use, they'll begin to stomp all over you.

One non 1,6,11 network can cause a spiral effect with the other auto networks as they reboot(where they begin to also choose non 1,6,11 channels).

With overlapping channels, you may get better throughput at certain times, but it's much more inconsistent and your noise is typically a lot higher.

I'm not an expert though like some others on this forum. Hopefully one of them posts.

Once QuickWillow begins to do something, it's going to quickly destroy your network :P.
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

ch8 or 9 be a better bet?
otter8

otter8

Member

better yet, what's the best option short of going to 5ghz?

koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK

1 recommendation

koolman2

Premium Member

You don't really have many options here. You could try to find all these neighbours and try to get everyone to change to 1 6 11 and disable 40 MHz.

If I were looking at this graph I'd try channel 11. It has the fewest overlapping channels and the closest ones are on 9 and are quite weak. I would expect it to work fairly well.

Just so you're aware, networks on the same channel cooperate for bandwidth. They work like a hub, allowing a neighbor network to finish before transmitting.
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

That's interesting because 11 used to work very well. I know it's not very friendly but if I were to choose 3 or 9 and get a repeater... Would that be enough to keep the routers on auto scan well away from me?

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by otter8:

That's interesting because 11 used to work very well. I know it's not very friendly but if I were to choose 3 or 9 and get a repeater... Would that be enough to keep the routers on auto scan well away from me?

Don't use anything other than 1,6, or 11 or you're going to only add to the problem. It's a huge no-no.

What router do you have?

Seems like a Linksys
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

1 edit

otter8

Member

yup, it's an ea6100. And I'm getting clobbered on 1 6 and 11. Is there any way that I can clobber back? From what I gather, 1 looks like a no go because of interference caused by the strong network on 4. 6 looks like trouble on both sides. Like I said before 11 WAS great, but not anymore. About half those networks are set on auto channel, so it's making it very tough to get good throughput consistently.

Here's something from superuser. c o m :

Well, I am a Ham Radio operator. I have done extensive testing. On my Actiontec or ZyXcel, channel 1 is abysmal! Channel 11 is a close second to the death of channel 1. ACTUAL power readings put 3 and 4 as the strongest signal output and throughput. Channels 6 and 9 are the standard preset. so actually avoid 1,6,9,11. I am a DSL tech also. I have walked people through changing channels from 9-10-11 to 3 or 4. They are amazed at the doubling of the wifi signal on all devices across the board. Leave the signal strength analysis to the experts kids. (it has to do with the relationship of the stage 1 pre-amp I F and the final stage RF, and just never mind) ;o)

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by otter8:

yup, it's an ea6100. And I'm getting clobbered on 1 6 and 11. Is there any way that I can clobber back? From what I gather, 1 looks like a no go because of interference caused by the strong network on 4. 6 looks like trouble on both sides. Like I said before 11 WAS great, but not anymore. About half those networks are set on auto channel, so it's making it very tough to get good throughput consistently.

Choose 1,6, or 11 and setup a guest network. Name it something like a local ISP sounding default name(I noticed that neighbors like to configure their networks if they see someone else with a non-default). Typically 6 is the go-to channel if you want to push people to 1 or 11(since you can push to both sides). The EA6100 doesn't have Smart Tap, right?

If you stick to 1,6, or 11, it'll get better if you try. You're just asking for trouble if you don't use those channels, more and more auto routers will change to non 1,6,11 and it'll be an overlapping nightmare.
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

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I will try what you are suggesting. Right now I took a chance and joined quickwillow on 4 and here's what things look like. I find it surprising. How do you know it's a linksys?

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by otter8:

I will try what you are suggesting. Right now I took a chance and joined quickwillow on 4 and here's what things look like. I find it surprising. How do you know it's a linksys?

Well, even if you get better performance on 4, it's going to fall overtime . You need to take a loss to take a gain. Try 1,6, and 11 each and choose what's best at that time.

I know it's a Linksys because of the MAC address.
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

okay, i created a guest newtork, bell001 and I'm going over to 6 in the hopes of pushing everyone else away. haha, I thought I erased the mac, but noticed it in the network list as well. Is it a big deal to have my mac address out there?

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by otter8:

okay, i created a guest newtork, bell001 and I'm going over to 6 in the hopes of pushing everyone else away. haha, I thought I erased the mac, but noticed it in the network list as well. Is it a big deal to have my mac address out there?

Not really, unless we're talking about modems.

Just remember, it'll take time. If you push your network hard for a few days you're likely to get a few reboots due to people having problems lol(especially during the weekends). Also, power outages may speed this up :P.
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

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so here's how things look now. Maybe I'll go find some Mylar balloons and let them loose on a local power line.

What sucks is that I want MY network to work well, and none of the other neighbours are being either smart or neighbourly. My first feeling is that if 4 is good for me and no one else seems to care who they're stepping on why should I be the goody goody.

Would a repeater placed on my second floor help shout nice and loud at the offenders and drive them further away?

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by otter8:

so here's how things look now. Maybe I'll go find some Mylar balloons and let them loose on a local power line.

What sucks is that I want MY network to work well, and none of the other neighbours are being either smart or neighbourly. My first feeling is that if 4 is good for me and no one else seems to care who they're stepping on why should I be the goody goody.

Would a repeater placed on my second floor help shout nice and loud at the offenders and drive them further away?

What's your performance like anyway on that channel?

I mean, well, that QuickWillow guy is your main concern.

Happen to be friends with them :P?

Well, most repeaters aren't that powerful(those basic ones) so it might not make too much of a difference if they can't see the network. It'll only cause interference if you're using it and it's going to reduce your performance anyway.

Hard Harry7
join:2010-10-19
Narragansett, RI

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Hard Harry7 to otter8

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to otter8
said by otter8:

Would a repeater placed on my second floor help shout nice and loud at the offenders and drive them further away?

No. A repeater would only make things worse IMO. Your broadcasting over twice the band, so twice the interference. If your going to spend money on a repeater, your better off buying a 5Ghz AP. Something like

»www.newegg.com/Product/P ··· G15W2067
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

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performance is not too bad... but not consistent.
otter8

otter8

Member

I'm not friends with anyone in this neighbourhood beyond hello/goodbye/how are you doing? I'm a shiftworker and it keeps things simple.

It's a large Minto rental community, townhouse condominiums with transient occupants that typically stay a year, find the rent too high and move on. There's only a few of us that have been here a few years.
otter8

otter8 to Darknessfall

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to Darknessfall
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And it's getting more neighbourly since last night. I set up the guest network and kept running traffic. Most neighbours are now on 1 6 11... except for ONE. I think it may be my next door neighbour and a quick chat is in order.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

Nightfall

MVM

said by otter8:

And it's getting more neighbourly since last night. I set up the guest network and kept running traffic. Most neighbours are now on 1 6 11... except for ONE. I think it may be my next door neighbour and a quick chat is in order.

If the chat fails, do what my brother did. He just bought a nice router that could drown out the neighbor. He has a RT-N66U that does a great job at providing him great service. Plus, it is awesome on 5ghz as well.

viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA

viperm to Darknessfall

Premium Member

to Darknessfall
And why is a big No no? I have never heard this before We run a lot of Ruckus highend access points in multi tenant buildings like hotels apts etc and we have them set to use auto channel and auto power setting to reduce self interference and choose the best channel based on best throughput etc. I have never heard anyone give advice to NOT use other channels. Channels 1,6,11 are the only ones that don't overlap. nothing wrong with choosing 2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10 if they work better for him there is no harm all your doing is moving your center point freq.
viperm

viperm to Darknessfall

Premium Member

to Darknessfall
Adding access points in multiple areas in your house will improve coverage as well as performance. DONT USE WIRELESS REPEATERS! they are a waste and never work well. Hard wire new access points in key locations back to your main router.

We use these all the time in low budget situations and they work well. »www.wlanparts.com/ubiqui ··· 802-11n/

Get your self a couple or three and you wont have as many issues. Keep in mind the weak link is your wireless phone, Ipad, laptop etc. The wireless card in them is LIMITED in how much power it can transmit. Most access points have 250-1000milliwats of power to SEND you the signal from yoru router but your laptop or ipad might have 50milliwatts to try and talk back your router.

Add in the fact of noise from neighbors, walls, metal etc in your house it makes it harder for the router/ AP to hear your device. Adding additional access points now you have better coverage and an antenna closer to your device so it can hear and talk to you better.

rodjames
Premium Member
join:2010-06-19

rodjames to otter8

Premium Member

to otter8
change your router country to israel and use channel 14

koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK

koolman2

Premium Member

^ Use channels 12/13 if you must, but definitely do NOT use 14.

The rule on 12/13 is that the power level hitting 14 must be below a certain threshold. Basically, very low power is technically allowed for 12/13, but you probably shouldn't.

rodjames
Premium Member
join:2010-06-19

rodjames to otter8

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to otter8
I always use 14, 40mhz at 140mw
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

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seriously, based on all the advice on the net, 1 6 11 are best. Not here. They are the absolute worst. 3 and 7 are open. All networks on ch3 are mine, yoshi, bell001, and d-link2.4 running off a repeater in one bedroom. Throughput on 3 is awesome even though inssider shows that it's a mess. I have set up an access point on ch7 and here are the results. It completely goes against common knowledge.

My isp is providing 60 down.
otter8

otter8 to rodjames

Member

to rodjames
sadly, I don't think that linksys allows that level of tinkering on my ea6100.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

2 edits

Darknessfall to otter8

Premium Member

to otter8
Your problem is that none of the 1,6,11 channels are established with networks. Pretty much all of your neighbors are overlapping and channel bonding everything to death. Compared to your last speedtests, on channel 3 your latency is a whole lot higher and your upload speeds are lower.

Also, you're sort of being a wireless troll with all of those networks though overlapping everyone else to death and only adding to an already large problem in your neighborhood. Plus, you're overlapping your own networks.

I never said that if you waited a week, it would get better. This takes time and it's time well spent. It could take months. By organizing more of my neighbors onto 1,6,11 all of our networks go a whole lot farther, better speeds, and our usable signal range is also a lot farther(no longer are low signal networks fading in and out/can't use).

With what you're doing now, you're only decreasing your own throughput(with all of those networks) and making it even more of a mess. You need to think of everyone else and not just yourself. Thinking for just your self only causes huge problems for others and yourself in the future.

Whenever a network enters on 2-5 and 7-10 in an environment where more people are organized properly onto 1,6, 11, those overlapping networks will fade in and out even with -80 signals while the 1,6,11 networks will still be able to hold onto a constant signal at -91 or -93. In your neighborhood, I wouldn't be surprised to find most networks just fading in and out, especially with all of the overlapping that you're adding to the pot.

Lastly, were you in different locations between all of these tests? It seems like the signals are all very different between each. Are you also using the same adapter when comparing? Since you bought a new one?
otter8
join:2014-04-07
Canada

otter8

Member

different machines. ten feet apart. The neighbours are clueless. In fact, I spoke with who I thought was quickwillow and realized immediately that he's not, and he has no clue. "whaa, my network can't mess with yours.... it's password protected." ugh.

Anyway, I'm happy that I have the throughput on my wireless that I'm paying my provider for.

It's all going to be moot anyway. I have one machine switched over to 5ghz and another adapter coming in the mail.

I've tried to be a good boy and use 11, there's minimal overlap, but I suspect there are heavy users on the channel. 1 and 6 suffer overlap and are slow as hell. Right now, I'm getting great throughput and solid connections. To me, that's what counts.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by otter8:

In fact, I spoke with who I thought was quickwillow and realized immediately that he's not, and he has no clue. "whaa, my network can't mess with yours.... it's password protected." ugh.

Heh, some people are clueless. I once had a family member tell me that viruses on their computer aren't bad.

If you ever want to find out who it is. If you have an Android phone, go around with wifi analyzer and see where that signal is the highest .

I also tried to talk to someone about their network and people tried to call me a hacker because I was looking at their network lol.