dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
8204
jkoblovsky
join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON

jkoblovsky to JMJimmy

Member

to JMJimmy

Re: Voltage v. Does

said by JMJimmy See Profile
I completely agree with them. TSI has no need for such a system without Voltage.

Of course you do. TSI is also asking for public relations costs (including web relations) to handel the backlash. Wondering how much was spent on some of the anon posters on this forum alone, let alone to Openmedia? With that, I move off this thread.

PS: All ISPs have retention databases. It's needed for LEA requests, and most were set up years before Voltage.

resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983 to JMJimmy

Premium Member

to JMJimmy
According to the cross exam of Marc, Teksavvy's retention is now only 30 days.
Joshua35
join:2014-06-02

Joshua35 to resa1983

Member

to resa1983
Thanks for everyone's replies.
What a drawn out process, glad I'm not directly involved.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy to jkoblovsky

Member

to jkoblovsky
said by jkoblovsky:

said by JMJimmy See Profile
I completely agree with them. TSI has no need for such a system without Voltage.

Of course you do. TSI is also asking for public relations costs (including web relations) to handel the backlash. Wondering how much was spent on some of the anon posters on this forum alone, let alone to Openmedia? With that, I move off this thread.

PS: All ISPs have retention databases. It's needed for LEA requests, and most were set up years before Voltage.

Doing single requests as needed is a simple process without the need of separate information systems. Doing 2114 at a time is a completely different beast. Moreover, they needed to setup a separate storage system to maintain the data over the course of the proceedings.

As to the public relations costs, I think they are completely justified as they targeted Teksavvy based customers in particular. The costs and media interest generated was focused on TSI which could have done them serious harm in the marketplace. If they did not spend extra to educate/inform their customers they may have lost them simply due to the actions of Voltage. Had Voltage gone after all Ontario customers, no matter the ISP, that would be a different story but the full brunt of the media/support/etc was theirs alone to bare.
jkoblovsky
join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON

2 edits

jkoblovsky

Member

said by JMJimmy See Profile
Doing single requests as needed is a simple process without the need of separate information systems. Doing 2114 at a time is a completely different beast. Moreover, they needed to setup a separate storage system to maintain the data over the course of the proceedings.

Ahh, yes a storage system to "maintain" data. What do they do, feed it steak and $16 glasses of orange juice? That's a good sounding legitimate PR response for "we need excessive amounts of money to properly do hardcopy backups, which every business does in their day to day operations."

I'm sorry Jimmy, this time its on paper, and so is TSI trying to justify them. It'll be interesting to see what the Judge awards. As for the rest, the only ppl that put TSI in the position they are in are from TSI right from the start. It's become a PR disaster for this company as a result of how they are handeling it. i'll be continuing this discussion when the transcripts are released from today, and not on this forum.

JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy

Member

That part of it was $332.5... a rather tiny fraction of the costs.
jkoblovsky
join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON

4 edits

jkoblovsky

Member

said by JMJimmy:

That part of it was $332.5... a rather tiny fraction of the costs.

Too burn a few CDRs of text entries from an SQL query? Really? Still not justifiable either way to a company who should already have this type of retention system set up. Marc just wants a free upgrade, not sure that's justifiable in these circumstances, but hey, that's what TSI is paying PR and lawyers to do. Why not? I hope he gets every penny he's asked for. Lets add to the PR disaster shall we. Unbelievable, and very glad I distanced my organization far, far away from all of this.

I hope in the end those TSI customers directly impacted get some sort of resolution. Like Joshua stated above, it's been a long drawn out process, and glad I'm not directly impacted either.

lookmevery1
@66.49.143.x

lookmevery1

Anon

said by jkoblovsky:

said by JMJimmy:

That part of it was $332.5... a rather tiny fraction of the costs.

Too burn a few CDRs of text entries from an SQL query? Really? Still not justifiable either way to a company who should already have this type of retention system set up. Marc just wants a free upgrade, not sure that's justifiable in these circumstances, but hey, that's what TSI is paying PR and lawyers to do. Why not? I hope he gets every penny he's asked for. Lets add to the PR disaster shall we. Unbelievable, and very glad I distanced my organization far, far away from all of this.

I hope in the end those TSI customers directly impacted get some sort of resolution. Like Joshua stated above, it's been a long drawn out process, and glad I'm not directly impacted either.

What organization exactly? Where does your expertise come from? What exactly are your qualifications?

No offense, but you purport yourself to be an expert in many fields from legal to data analysis to database admin to pr representative. The list is growing at an alarming rate here.....

Zappy
@198.103.152.x

Zappy to Joshua35

Anon

to Joshua35
What a drawn out process, glad I'm not directly involved.
said by Joshua35:

What a drawn out process, glad I'm not directly involved.

It certainly has been but since it's the exact opposite of what the Trolls wanted who's complaining?

Go back two years and they thought they were going to stroll in, grab the names and contact info and then they could send off some 2,000 troll letters and instant profit!

Instead all they've gotten are lawyer bills and unless TSI was lying about their expenses (pretty unlikely) they're going to get even more.

And for what? The court has made it clear they're not going to let them gouge anyone, so odds are they're going to get $100 per case.

I get the feeling that this is their local lawyer desperate and refusing to let go of his troll dreams of sitting in his office sending out letters and cashing the cheques he gets back. Darn, how is he going to pay for those hair implants now?

So yes, it's taken awhile but I for one have enjoyed every second of it.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy to jkoblovsky

Member

to jkoblovsky
said by jkoblovsky:

said by JMJimmy:

That part of it was $332.5... a rather tiny fraction of the costs.

Too burn a few CDRs of text entries from an SQL query? Really? Still not justifiable either way to a company who should already have this type of retention system set up. Marc just wants a free upgrade, not sure that's justifiable in these circumstances, but hey, that's what TSI is paying PR and lawyers to do. Why not? I hope he gets every penny he's asked for. Lets add to the PR disaster shall we. Unbelievable, and very glad I distanced my organization far, far away from all of this.

I hope in the end those TSI customers directly impacted get some sort of resolution. Like Joshua stated above, it's been a long drawn out process, and glad I'm not directly impacted either.

If you read the thing in detail it was not in SQL to begin with, it had to be transferred to run the query. I love people who think computing just magically happens. To address lookmevery1: My qualifications: 14 years of software development, design, consultation, and maintenance (part of it for a law firm).
JMJimmy

JMJimmy to Zappy

Member

to Zappy
said by Zappy :

What a drawn out process, glad I'm not directly involved.

said by Joshua35:

What a drawn out process, glad I'm not directly involved.

I get the feeling that this is their local lawyer desperate and refusing to let go of his troll dreams of sitting in his office sending out letters and cashing the cheques he gets back. Darn, how is he going to pay for those hair implants now?

So yes, it's taken awhile but I for one have enjoyed every second of it.

Very apt. When lawyers start using adjectives it's a bad sign.

lookmevery1
@38.122.43.x

lookmevery1 to JMJimmy

Anon

to JMJimmy
My questions were not directed at you Jimmy by the expert of everything, my jkolblovsky himself. The guy has to be a freaking genius, according to him he is an expert in any subject!!

Zappy
@198.103.152.x

Zappy to JMJimmy

Anon

to JMJimmy
said by JMJimmy See Profile
Very apt. When lawyers start using adjectives it's a bad sign.
[/bquote :

Yes, "outrageous" did have a hysterical quality and at the last hearing when TSI estimated 200k the trolls just about choked.


BoosterBust
@188.138.1.x

BoosterBust

Anon

So, whats the verdict? Is there some kind of a result? Or it is going to take time for the Court to reach decision as it was last time?
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to lookmevery1

Premium Member

to lookmevery1
said by lookmevery1 :

said by jkoblovsky:

said by JMJimmy:

That part of it was $332.5... a rather tiny fraction of the costs.

Too burn a few CDRs of text entries from an SQL query? Really? Still not justifiable either way to a company who should already have this type of retention system set up. Marc just wants a free upgrade, not sure that's justifiable in these circumstances, but hey, that's what TSI is paying PR and lawyers to do. Why not? I hope he gets every penny he's asked for. Lets add to the PR disaster shall we. Unbelievable, and very glad I distanced my organization far, far away from all of this.

I hope in the end those TSI customers directly impacted get some sort of resolution. Like Joshua stated above, it's been a long drawn out process, and glad I'm not directly impacted either.

What organization exactly? Where does your expertise come from? What exactly are your qualifications?

No offense, but you purport yourself to be an expert in many fields from legal to data analysis to database admin to pr representative. The list is growing at an alarming rate here.....

1) Those that can, do.
2) Those that can't stand on the sidelines and pretend to be experts.

Your questions are very good ones, but there won't be any cogent answers. See point 2.
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

resa1983 to BoosterBust

Premium Member

to BoosterBust
said by BoosterBust :

So, whats the verdict? Is there some kind of a result? Or it is going to take time for the Court to reach decision as it was last time?

I assume that it'll take time for the Court to go over all the materials filed, as well as the oral arguments in court, and then make the decision. It's always been at least a month before a decision.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy

Member

said by resa1983:

said by BoosterBust :

So, whats the verdict? Is there some kind of a result? Or it is going to take time for the Court to reach decision as it was last time?

I assume that it'll take time for the Court to go over all the materials filed, as well as the oral arguments in court, and then make the decision. It's always been at least a month before a decision.

Probably longer since it's Christmas/New Years - lots of holidays for them to take.

CheechChong
@184.162.48.x

CheechChong

Anon

I haven't had the chance to read a thing in regards to any of this, and won't for another week, but I had the chance to read this earlier. May as well post it since it leads to the links and info of what went down in court:

Teksavvy is asking for $346,480.68 for its “reasonable costs” from Voltage Pictures
»excesscopyright.blogspot ··· its.html

Part that made me giggle is this:

Teksavvy is asking for the sum of $346,480.68 for its “reasonable costs”, which includes almost $180,000 in legal fees. ....

For its part, Voltage suggests that the maximum it should pay for Teksavvy’s “reasonable costs”, including legal fees, for compliance with Prothonotary Aalto’s order should be no more than $884.00.


LOL $884

Everything else aside,

Seems to me Voltage doesn't even comprehend the costs associated with just a salary of someone to toss that figure out there.

And if people exercise their "rights" and contact someone in position as a privacy officer, that triples easy.

Shall 1000 people call voltage and ask to speak to their owner one-on-one. Will Voltages cost be 800$ (including the 1-800 number).

Voltage is on crack. Worse part is, they aren't sharing the crack with anyone so we can all trip out and see how it truly costs 44-cents to sort through 2000 IP's, bring it down to under a thousand, send notices out, receive calls, retain records, and everything else we have detailed in previous topics before.

This case isn't about copyright. This case is about hoarding the crack and hallucinating.
CheechChong

CheechChong

Anon

Man the giggles are unlimited.

They have exhibits from this forum showing that TSI allows unlimited downloading between 2-am and 8-am (or something like that), and it appears they are trying to show that unlimited downloading and what people do online is grounds for something.

They also appear to try and paint a picture that torrents are illegal.

I LOVE IT!

Can't wait till I have the time to fully read this thing.

Wow, voltage appears to have went into the other private teksavvy.ca forum (from the looks of it), copied peoples names and location of residence to file as evidence. Evil knows no bounds. If TSI reads this post, TSI should remove the location field to protect peoples privacy (and explain why ie. American corporations taking their info and thoughts to use against them).

Think for a second.... if voltage gets names, locations and whatever else due to court order, then correlates that with the data-scooping they are indeed showing us that they do to people on various forums (some of which people think are private)... yeeesh.

Does anyone know if TSI has a privacy policy and/or terms associated with *their* online forum? Link or PDF to upload? This is good material to use for something else i'm working on.

Similarly, Voltage (and Rogers) seems to state that checks or double-checks to ensure the correlated IP's are in fact the correct subscriber, is unnecessary. One quick check is enough according to them. I think when the Fed's (and the "Fed computer and computer forensic experts") came pounding on some poor Ontario families home thinking they were "Pierre Poutine" because Rogers gave them the wrong IP correlation kinda proves a point as to why checks and double-checks are required. This took months to figure out they weren't "Pierre Poutine" per the press. And this was Canada's top Fed computer brains on that case.
(re: Para 45, memo of fact)

Great stuff in this court filing. I may have to read this instead of just skimming through it. But no time...

Terms of TSI's forum would be a good help, if someone can point me to it.

Zappy
@198.103.152.x

Zappy

Anon

Oh it is funny!

Voltage is now trying to get out of paying because as it turns out TSI has been on the pirates side this whole time!

See when they were offering high-speed unlimited bandwidth it was for the copyright violators because there is no one else who would even consider such a service!

And for proof? Quotes on forums from anonymous posters.

Well it's pretty clear that the court is not only going to lower Voltage's bill but insists that TSI pay them $300k.

Hey Trolls and your Masters, if you're reading this next time you come up here sniffing for free money maybe you should hire a lawyer who can make arguments that aren't self-defeating.

Er if you have any money left that is.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

Talk about irrelevancies! The costs to deal with this are the costs ... nothing to do with what side they're on!
resa1983
Premium Member
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON

1 edit

resa1983 to JMJimmy

Premium Member

to JMJimmy
quote:
Man the giggles are unlimited.

They have exhibits from this forum showing that TSI allows unlimited downloading between 2-am and 8-am (or something like that), and it appears they are trying to show that unlimited downloading and what people do online is grounds for something.

They also appear to try and paint a picture that torrents are illegal.
Frankly, I use the 2-8am window to download my driver updates (AMD are always coming out with new ones), Windows Updates, and sometimes even do my various game updates if I don't plan on playing the game that day.

With all the stuff I do... Contribute to copyrighted wow addons (copyrighted only so others can't rehost without our permission and make money off them), alpha/beta testing new Blizzard games, making use of Blizzard Test Realms to test upcoming patches.... And of course Netflix streaming.. I download quite a bit. All 100% legal.

Also.. Blizzard uses torrents to distribute all their games... They have a CDN, but if its not the release day of the patch, your speeds from the CDN will be junk, and it'll be WAY faster to get via p2p/torrent in Blizzard's Desktop App Launcher.

Also.. Steam. Damn. Addicted. Too many games to download.

Just because you use torrents, or make quite a bit of use of the 2-8am window, doesn't mean anything at all. In my opinion, Mr Bald Voltage lawyer has been smoking too much illegal stuff, and frankly needs to stop this nonsense and get hit by a clue-by-four.
Just because you have high usage, or download via torrents doesn't mean ANYTHING about legality or lack thereof.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

I think we need to have our resident expert testify that only Linux ISO's are downloaded during the 2-8am window.

Nitra
join:2011-09-15
Montreal

Nitra

Member

Linux ISO's you say.....
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to HiVolt

Premium Member

to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

I think we need to have our resident expert testify that only Linux ISO's are downloaded during the 2-8am window.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· vdGcb7Fs

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

lol that cracks me up every time...

Zappy
@198.103.221.x

Zappy to sbrook

Anon

to sbrook
said by sbrook:

Talk about irrelevancies! The costs to deal with this are the costs ... nothing to do with what side they're on!

True but the Trolls are desperate, remember two years ago they were supposed to walk in and out with the names and numbers, with each trip back they come out that much further behind.

All they have left is this nonsense about how everyone is against them.

If the court sticks them with the full bill you can bet their lawyer will make some weeping speech about how they're letting the pirates get away with stealing their precious wrestler movies.
JMJimmy
join:2008-07-23

JMJimmy to MaynardKrebs

Member

to MaynardKrebs
I hope that's an authorized recording of a live performance and you sought permission for retransmission via linking or it could land you in court (seriously, that's how absurd the copyright act is)

hilarious though
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by JMJimmy:

I hope that's an authorized recording of a live performance and you sought permission for retransmission via linking or it could land you in court (seriously, that's how absurd the copyright act is)

I'd sue Google for 'making available' as a co-conspirator.
jkoblovsky
join:2011-09-27
Keswick, ON

4 edits

jkoblovsky to Zappy

Member

to Zappy
said by Zappy :

Oh it is funny!

Voltage is now trying to get out of paying because as it turns out TSI has been on the pirates side this whole time!

See when they were offering high-speed unlimited bandwidth it was for the copyright violators because there is no one else who would even consider such a service!

Unlimited bandwidth is a necessity now, especially if you are doing things like gaming, shopping and streaming on next gen consoles, let alone PC or even through streaming services like netflix.

Limiting bandwidth is actually retarding growth in the digital economy. There wouldn't be that many copyright violators imo if we had cheap, unlimited access to this medium. Streaming services have out paced P2P for quite some time now.

In a sense, having bandwidth caps, could be precisely the reason why people download off of P2P now a days. A lot cheaper on bandwidth (due to file compression) and better quality than streaming if you have caps. Caps limit exposure to legitimate services in the digital marketplace. They should be abolished completely by the CRTC, and/or through legislative measures, and are likely to choke off even more access to the digital marketplace, as telecom will be dealing with a disruption in their business models in the next few years. They essentially will be doing everything they can to make the "connection" a lot more expensive to Canadian consumers, since content distribution will be moving to online exclusively and away from companies like Bell, Shaw, Rogers. Recent move by Shaw to slow down connections and hike prices is a prime example. Expect others to follow in the new year.

Pretty soon, you're going to need to be rich to gain full unlimited access to the legit digital marketplace at a decent speed essential to use these services. The telecom industry in Canada is a complete farce due to a regulator that's hated by the general public for it's illogical stance on these ITMP issues. That's more of a threat to studio's like Voltage than some kid downloading one of their failed movies. I know the video gaming industry has had quite a few choice words on caps and throttling in the past.

Movie studio's like Voltage should be experimenting now with legit uses of P2P to begin with, and making money from embedded ads, product placement and tracking rather than pissing on everyone (threatening to sue due to copyright infringement) because they made some crappy movie, that didn't do well at the box office. That would be a much more profitable venture.

You know you're a technically retarded company when you have to use outdated ideology to protect your interests, rather than actually innovating, competing and making money in the marketplace that's in front of you. IMO the courts should have no patience for a company that takes advantage of moral hazards. Let the market handle these Voltage pricks. That's the only way these twits are going to learn. P2P downloading should be legal!