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fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
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fartness (banned)

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Power outage in freezing temperatures?

Let's say there's a large winter storm that knocks out power for an extended period of time due to power line damage, and the temperatures are below freezing. What steps should one take to prevent damage occurring to their house (ie. burst pipes or anything else that could happen)? No generators, etc.

madylarian
The curmudgeonly
Premium Member
join:2002-01-03
Parkville, MD

1 recommendation

madylarian

Premium Member

Turn on a couple of faucets and let the water trickle slowly. This helps to keep the pipes from freezing. Fill as many ziploc baggies as needed with enough water to allow for them to freeze and put them everywhere they will fit in your freezer. This will help keep the freezer cold.

mady

nunya
LXI 483
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join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
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You might not be able to prevent the damage without some form of heat.
You could shut off the water and drain most of the pipes. Put antifreeze in toilets and drain traps.

A small kerosene or propane heater may be enough to keep the house from freezing, but then you have to keep fuel on hand and worry about CO.
I'd suggest a CO detector on each floor with a battery backup.

Freezers can thaw and food can spoil. If you keep the doors shut, some will hold out for a couple of days days.

Keep your homeowners paid up current. If you have to pay for repairs, they might be covered. If you have to throw food out or stay somewhere else, it may be covered too. (document everything).

A lot of people tend to "abandon ship". I'm more inclined to stay and try to keep the house livable (plus fight off looters, I mean, "peaceful protesters").

I would have a small generator just to run the furnace and refrigerator. You don't have to run them constantly. Furnaces can be installed with an appliance cord, so all you have to do is plug it in to the generator.

I had a 7 day outage a few years back due to an ice storm. I live in a small suburban city of about 80,000. I never expected to be without power for 7 days in the heart of town.
Fortunately, I have generators. For the most part, I would run the big set. Occasionally, I would switch over to one of the Honda's and just run the furnace and essential lights.
Other than a burning a LOT of gasoline, we got by fairly comfortably.
All of my neighbors retreated to hotels / relatives after day 2-3. When they came home, the plumbers were busy. I'll bet there were 10 plumbers parked on my street.

We can only run one stove burner at a time on gen pwr. Not a big deal. Can't run electric clothes dryer or A/C either. Clothes can line dry in the basement, and A/C isn't necessary.
If the Mrs. hadn't insisted on an electric range and an electric dryer, you'd probably never know we were on gen pwr.

jrs8084
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join:2002-03-02
Statesville, NC

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Ice storms are pretty common here, and they don't play well with power lines. Luckily, the sub-station is at the end of my street, so I am usually one of the first back on.

Others have posted what to do after the power goes out. There are also things I suggest doing before you suspect it might go out: I like to keep the house warmer so should it go out, I am not already starting with a cold place. For short outages, this keeps me from having to drag the kerosene heater up from the basement.

Clean: run the dishwasher if it needs to be, do laundry if you have loads, vacuum, etc. There is nothing like sitting around with the power out and nothing to do, and looking at all the chores that need to be done (but can't)

Obviously, make sure you have obvious supplies on hand like flashlights, etc. If you have a well, make sure you have a source of drinking water. Some people fill up the bathtub so they have water to flush the commode.
modelamac7
join:2002-04-13
Waterford, MI

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Focus on what is affected: water and things that use water -toilets, washers, dishwashers, and drains.
Things that are temp. sensitive: Freezers, fresh veggies, special medicines.
Generators are fine. All you need is one large enough to run furnace and refrigerator, and gasoline. Just hope you don't have to drive to far to get gas.
I converted our generator to natural gas, the supply of which has yet to be affected by an outage.
ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

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said by jrs8084:

Ice storms are pretty common here,

They are? We've not had any significant power knocking out ice storms since 2002.....

jrs8084
Premium Member
join:2002-03-02
Statesville, NC

jrs8084

Premium Member

said by ke4pym:

said by jrs8084:

Ice storms are pretty common here,

They are? We've not had any significant power knocking out ice storms since 2002.....

We have had three since that bad storm in 2002. But our weather tends to be divergent from Charlotte-the I40 corridor is a dividing line. Even go up into North Iredell and it is a totally different story, and I am just north of Statesville.

Mostly overhead lines here doesn't help things, either.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

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Mr Matt to fartness

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said by fartness:

What steps should one take to prevent damage occurring to their house (ie. burst pipes or anything else that could happen)?

A relative of mine bought a cottage in new England that had all electric heat. The cost of a generator to power the electric baseboard heaters was out of the question. For back up he had installed 2 direct vent gas heaters and bought a 100 gallon propane tank. He sets the thermostats on the gas heaters at 50 degrees. He sets the temperature on the electric baseboard heat at 55 degrees. If power fails and the temperature drops below 50 degrees the gas heaters provide heat, otherwise lower cost electric provides heat. If you have propane or natural gas available you are set, otherwise you will have to purchase a propane tank. Go to Amazon.com and enter: "direct vent gas heater" in the search box, they have a large selection.

Edit: Here is a selection of direct vent gas heaters:

»www.bensdiscountsupply.c ··· ers.aspx

Make sure you choose one that does not require electricity and is designed for the available fuel.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

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Easiest is to use a small generator. If gas use and noise are a concern, there are campsite generators which are fairly quiet and don't take too much gas. However they are much more expensive than "regular" generators which are significantly louder, sip more gas and give more power.

QuaffAPint
A Big Thanks To The Troops
join:2001-01-10
Downingtown, PA

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We were out for 3 full days last winter. We didn't have a generator (though a lot of people in our neighborhood did and all you heard for 3 days was the constant annoying noise of generators). We did drip the faucets. We also took all our frozen and fridge food, put it in bags and then dug out a giant hole in the snow, shoved them all in and buried them. It was quite cold, so it all iced up. We barely ended up losing any food from that.

We did have a small wood fireplace, but honestly it didn't do that much, but it was better than nothing. We just all slept by it. The biggest thing that sucked is it gets dark at 5:30, and without enough lighting its even hard to play board games with the kids. It got old real quick.

One thing we want to get is a camp stove. The fireplace couldn't even heat up the soup. Our bbq sucked with it being so cold. We also tried a kettle on it, and it just scorched the bottom and it didn't ever get boiling.

I'll still take it over a summer power outage. It's dark and cold, but at least we didn't have any major food spoilage. So many people went out and got generators. We still haven't and I hope I don't have to.

tschmidt
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Letting the faucets drip will goes a long way to keep pipes from bursting assuming you have city water and don't need electricity to run a well pump.

Shutting the water off and draining pipes can be problematical since getting out all the water is very difficult. If you go this route make sure there are low drains. Having an air compressor and time before the outage helps a lot, but that is not typically an option. As a minimum shut the water off and then once things are back to normal carefully turn it back on while checking for leaks.

Having a well insulated tight house facing south helps a lot. It will retain what little heat there is from the sun an occupants. Where pipes tend to freeze first is wall penetrations with little or no insulation. When we built our house kept all plumbing out of exterior walls.

We heat with a cordwood stove so able to maintain temperature even without power although the fans no longer run. If you are thinking along these lines be aware that most pellet stoves need electric power.

We cook with a propane stove so have a way to cook during outages. Easy to light the burner with a match when the spark ignitors don't work. I think due to regulatory changes new gas stoves need power or they shut off the gas as a safety precaution. That is really annoying during an outage if you need the stove to cook.

We have a nearby stream for a source of nonpotable water for toilet flushing. Bathing and excreting get interesting without a source of water. Kind of fun for a day but gets very old after several.

As nunya See Profile posted keep your homeowners insurance up to date. I believe water damage is the largest source of residential insurance loss.

/tom
TheMG
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There's two schools of though when it comes to the water issue.

The risk of leaving water on at a trickle, if the temperatures are cold enough and you have no way to heat the house during a prolonged outage, eventually the pipes may freeze and since the water is still on, you might have a big mess when the power comes back on and things thaw out.

At least with the water turned off, and draining as much of the plumbing as you can, while this won't prevent damage from being done to the plumbing if there is any trapped water that freezes, it will avoid any serious water damage from occurring since the water supply is turned off.

Best is to find whatever way you can to keep the house warm (while being careful to avoid fire and CO hazards.

I find a great thing to have is a gas (natural or propane) fireplace. Most do not require any electrical power to operate, and while on its own it may not be sufficient to keep the house a comfortable temperature, at least it can keep things above freezing. This has actually saved my parents once before, they were able to keep the house at about 10C while the outdoor temperature was -42C, just by running the natural gas fireplace in the basement on max.

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

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One reason I have a gas fired fireplace. In emergency it's enough to keep the house warm for a week or so until the gas runs out. I'm not really sure how long it would take me to go through a tank of gas??? I also have a gas grill so I'm set for cooking as well.
fartness (banned)
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I have a pellet stove insert but the fan runs on electric. Would be pretty useless. Also how does one get all the water out of their pipes?

nunya
LXI 483
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join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya

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You get *all* of the water out of your pipes with high explosives. You get *most* of the water out by opening the faucets and letting it run out of the lowest faucet.

toby
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA

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Get a small honda generator, EU1000i it will run the pellet stove for days on just a few gallons.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

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said by fartness:

I have a pellet stove insert but the fan runs on electric. Would be pretty useless.

Check with the manufacture of your pellet stove to determine if it can be used as a convection heater when power is not available to power the fan. If it can be used as a convection heater your problem is solved.
modelamac7
join:2002-04-13
Waterford, MI

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Usually in a house with a basement, the basement utility faucet is the lowest point and the place to drain.
On a crawl space or slab, the outside faucet is the lowest point and the place to drain. That will save everything excerpt the main supply line.
Don't forget to lower the hose on the clothes washer to drain the washer pump.
tomupnorth
join:2005-01-14
UpperMidwest

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said by fartness:

how does one get all the water out of their pipes?

Along with what others have said, you should not forget the dishwasher and refrigerator (ice maker, water dispenser) which means pulling-out the fridge from the wall to disconnect.

Ultimately the (careful) use of an air compressor will likely be necessary to get water out of places when pipes droop or otherwise do not drain completely to the basement.

And as nunya has said, antifreeze in the p-traps.

This is not a job for the faint-of-heart. If you were vacating your house for the winter you'd likely pay a professional $250 or more to assure no problems.

Jack in VA
Premium Member
join:2014-07-07
North, VA

Jack in VA to modelamac7

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said by modelamac7:

On a crawl space or slab, the outside faucet is the lowest point and the place to drain. That will save everything excerpt the main supply line.
Don't forget to lower the hose on the clothes washer to drain the washer pump.

Not so a house on a slab has the pipes in the floor. The outside faucet is higher and will not drain the system at all.

pende_tim
Premium Member
join:2004-01-04
Selbyville, DE

1 recommendation

pende_tim

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Also if the pipes are not properly pitched towards the lowest point, they will trap water and freeze.

The only sure way to get out the water is the blow air through the pipes. And don't forget the hotwater baseboard and wet furnace.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

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said by pende_tim:

The only sure way to get out the water is the blow air through the pipes.

You are correct that the only way to clear out the pipes is to blow them out. My parents had a cottage winterized each year. In addition to blowing out the lines, the plumber removed all the faucet handles from the valves to prevent water from freezing in the valve seats and cracking them. No single handle faucets were involved.
fartness (banned)
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fartness (banned)

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I've never used a generator. Does it get hard wired to my breaker box or do I plug the furnace into the generator? I'd have to run it outside I assume because of CO, so do I just run an extension cord into the house?

What's a good generator to just run the furnace and maybe the fridge (if it's cold outside having a fridge running probably isn't needed).
kherr
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join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL

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The only sure way is to pump non-toxic (potable) antifreeze. Just blowing air still leaves water behind (been there, dealt with that) ......
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

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said by fartness:

What's a good generator to just run the furnace and maybe the fridge (if it's cold outside having a fridge running probably isn't needed).

It would be helpful if you would let us know what fuel you use to fuel your furnace. Is it propane, natural gas or fuel oil. If you use natural gas or propane you can purchase a hard wired standby generator or portable generator that uses propane or natural gas. There are whole house transfer switches or critical circuit transfer switches. A critical circuit transfer switch can allow the use of a smaller standby generator with lower fuel consumption. It all depends on your budget, how many circuits you will want the generator to power. The other consideration is how long you want to back up power to last, one day, one week or one month. I know one family whose home was powered by a standby generator for over 30 days after a hurricane in South Florida in 2003 or 2004. Two factors made that possible. They had an ample supply of natural gas because they had a 350,000 BTU per hour pool heater. Their range, water heater and furnace were fueled by natural gas.
fartness (banned)
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Oh sorry, typed too fast and forgot to mention it. It's NG. If there's a generator that uses NG that would probably be best. I don't want to spend too too much money but don't mind spending something.
TheMG
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TheMG

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said by fartness:

If there's a generator that uses NG that would probably be best. I don't want to spend too too much money but don't mind spending something.

They definitely exist and also many propane generators can be converted.

The biggest issue is that they require a huge amount of gas. The average residential gas supply doesn't have enough capacity for larger whole-house generators.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

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said by fartness:

If there's a generator that uses NG that would probably be best.

First check with your NG supplier to determine the capacity of your service.

Check Powerland here: »www.powerlandonline.com/ ··· nerator/

They have tri fueled generators Gasoline, Propane, NG.

Available here: »www.homedepot.com/b/Outd ··· bx9nZay1

Remember you will have to pay the cost of the electrical and NG hookup. The combined cost of the generator, electrical and NG hookup might make a hardwired critical circuit standby generator a better choice like these:

»www.homedepot.com/p/Gene ··· sZ25ecod

»www.homedepot.com/p/Gene ··· c1vZbx9s
fartness (banned)
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fartness (banned)

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They just put in a new meter outside if it makes a difference. I can always ask them.

disconnectef
@32.217.80.x

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to nunya
said by nunya:

You might not be able to prevent the damage without some form of heat.
You could shut off the water and drain most of the pipes. Put antifreeze in toilets and drain traps.

A small kerosene or propane heater may be enough to keep the house from freezing, but then you have to keep fuel on hand and worry about CO.
I'd suggest a CO detector on each floor with a battery backup.

Freezers can thaw and food can spoil. If you keep the doors shut, some will hold out for a couple of days days.

Keep your homeowners paid up current. If you have to pay for repairs, they might be covered. If you have to throw food out or stay somewhere else, it may be covered too. (document everything).

A lot of people tend to "abandon ship". I'm more inclined to stay and try to keep the house livable (plus fight off looters, I mean, "peaceful protesters").

......

We can only run one stove burner at a time on gen pwr. Not a big deal. Can't run electric clothes dryer or A/C either. Clothes can line dry in the basement, and A/C isn't necessary.
If the Mrs. hadn't insisted on an electric range and an electric dryer, you'd probably never know we were on gen pwr.

I have a lot of experience with lengthy power outages. We recently had a 30 day power outage in October 2011 in which the entire state was shut down due to an early snowfall was thousands of downed trees.while I'm working on a zero budget practically my approach is to use a gasoline generator that has enough capacity to run most of the major appliances of the house and maintain a normal lifestyle. Of course the fuel tank limitations prevent running 24 7, but we did manage to get 16 hours running synthetic motor oil out of a tank of fuel.way back in the 19 eighties, I constructed a concrete bunker to house my generator. I used the rebar reinforced concrete based on the assumption that one day the gasoline generator may explode and cause a fire. This fire cannot be permitted to spread hence the concrete structure. It has been improved and modernized over the years with intake and exhaust fans soundproofing baffles and an exhaust pipe system and a much more powerful generator.for really long term outages say something that's going to last on the order of 6 months or year as in breakdown of society for an EMP attack, running the generator for short periods to run the heating system and pump water from the well it is in order and then shut it down for 4 hours or so and then started up the next time you need some heat. Having a well insulated structure is paramount to success in this area.you'll need a separate structure to store large amounts of gasoline in 5 gallon storage containers which must be mixed with a additive to preserve the fuel for longer periods say up to a year.it can be done, and you just cycle the old fuel when you exercise the generator once a month. Sometimes exercise in the generator can involve switching the main breakers over to generator power so you save a tiny amount of money on your utilities while the generator is going through its exercise cycle. Typically up here in the mountains in the woods on a deserted dead end cow path, we are the very last to get power restored and usually the first to lose it in any major storm.as such, it was long ago necessary to implement power generation fuel storage and other things because we cannot get fuel deliveries for much of the season during the winter months and power restoration is often very slow here.