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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

Re: "Project Latte": Bell doesn't like being left out in the streaming world

Here is an idea of just how bad it really is.

»www.huffingtonpost.ca/20 ··· 618.html

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to ekster

MVM

to ekster
There are tons of satellite customers in the west island of Montreal. Few people upgrade to Fibe TV just because it exists, lots of people don't like changing what works. My parents are an example. They're on satellite still, despite Fibe TV being available (well, only via bonding, since they couldn't get Fibe with a single phone line) because they see no need to change.

Lack of rural access to broadband is indeed a big problem, but that doesn't make silly statements about satellite television relevant.

Hopefully the global satellite network that SpaceX is cooking up will improve things. They're going for a 600+ MEO satellite that should provide a real broadband experience at affordable prices to everybody from people in rural areas to people in less privileged countries. And because the satellites are MEO rather than GEO (they operate at ~1,200km rather than ~36,000km), the latency should be low enough for latency-sensitive stuff to work well.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by Guspaz:

And because the satellites are MEO rather than GEO (they operate at ~1,200km rather than ~36,000km), the latency should be low enough for latency-sensitive stuff to work well.

THAT would be a fantastic improvement in satellite performance. It would be a game changer for sure. The question is, will SpaceX be able to fund it?

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to HiVolt

Premium Member

to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:

You'll never see the mafia clones work on smart tv's or other appliances, just apps on phones/tablets, and computers.

Sure they will, but only if you subscribe to their internet/wireless products. Those re-runs they bought isn't cheap.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to HeadSpinning

MVM

to HeadSpinning
It does seem like they're not doing it entirely themselves, but Elon Musk has been very sparse on details. Just a few tweets to announce it, confirm it's for low-cost Internet, and that's about it. The word is that they're working with WorldVu, run by the people who were planning to do the same thing at Google before spinning off into their own company, but I don't think that's officially confirmed.

The discussion is about a large number of satellites (ten times as many as are in any existing constellation), and to do that they'd likely be relatively small, launching multiple ones at a time. For example, if they weighed 100 kilos then they could hypothetically launch a hundred satellites per Falcon 9 launch. You're then talking about total launch costs in the hundreds of millions, which isn't so insane considering what big telecom projects normally cost.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan to mr weather

Member

to mr weather
said by mr weather:

said by Anzio:

There is still a "link" to analog customers and satellite customers, since there's a good chance they have high-speed service as well.

Not necessarily. There are still people with satellite and basic dial-up because there is no broadband provider in their area.

I am one of those... My options are cellular turbo hub (which I use), Xploernet satellite (tried for one year and dumped), or dialup.

I am curious if bell will exempt data usage for Turbo Hub users... If so, I will sign up instantly.

If not, there is no way I can afford to watch. I pay $7 a gigabyte put to 20 gigs, and the. $10 a gigabyte after 20 gigs.

I can barely afford YouTube on the lowest quality settings. LOL.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

They can't it would be undue perference.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan to Anzio

Member

to Anzio
said by Anzio:

said by mr weather:

Not necessarily. There are still people with satellite and basic dial-up because there is no broadband provider in their area.

There's still technically a link to them, even if they can't watch it at home. They're free to go to Starbucks or something.

Or there's always satellite internet.

My experience with the top satellite package from Xploernet... Unsuitable for video streaming. The connection isn't stable.

I had the service for one year.

As to going to Starbucks... Nearest one is 1.5 hours away.

The digital divide is still quite active in this country. I am not in a backwards community... Fibre to the home exists within 4 KM of me... Cable is within 2 KM.

I have offered to pay, and so far no company wants to deal. That is the true digital divide.

And my advice to you... Try living like that for a week...go to Starbucks every time you want to watch TV or use the net.

After that, tell me how you feel about it.
jumpingryan

jumpingryan to JSE

Member

to JSE
said by JSE:

said by Cyborg994:

Will the data counts toward caps on Bell?

Didn't bell get in trouble for this a while back with their mobile TV? I'd say probably, it will count.

That supposedly isn't even close to being settled. Early stages of proceedings.
jumpingryan

jumpingryan to Guspaz

Member

to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

There are tons of satellite customers in the west island of Montreal. Few people upgrade to Fibe TV just because it exists, lots of people don't like changing what works. My parents are an example. They're on satellite still, despite Fibe TV being available (well, only via bonding, since they couldn't get Fibe with a single phone line) because they see no need to change.

Lack of rural access to broadband is indeed a big problem, but that doesn't make silly statements about satellite television relevant.

Hopefully the global satellite network that SpaceX is cooking up will improve things. They're going for a 600+ MEO satellite that should provide a real broadband experience at affordable prices to everybody from people in rural areas to people in less privileged countries. And because the satellites are MEO rather than GEO (they operate at ~1,200km rather than ~36,000km), the latency should be low enough for latency-sensitive stuff to work well.

The presence of satellite dishes has nothing to do with anything regarding high speed... Many people like the bell TV interface rather than cable. Fibe TV IPTV is a new offering, and lots of people are reluctant to change.

As to the rurals I have examined the issue in a lot of detail in my area. I am close to the CO... And 4.5 KM from a 7330, and 4 KM from FTTH through NRTC... Along with 2 KM from cable... But still no landline service for me... Turbo hub, dialup, or satellite.

My buddies house for sale... Awesome place on 41 acres... FTTN... 15 MBps... Awesome as compared to what I am used to... He is about 20 mins out in the middle of nowhere.

Sometimes being out there gets great access, and close to the city on the wrong loop gets you crappiest setup of all.

Would be great if they could improve satellite... Although in a few years, it might be for mining camps only assuming Bell pushes through more upgrades.

I really don't need much... Just wireline... 5 to 10 MBps... With maybe 150 gigs data...But I would do a business 250/250 if it was available for the wife's work.
jumpingryan

jumpingryan to DKS

Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

Here is an idea of just how bad it really is.

»www.huffingtonpost.ca/20 ··· 618.html

DKS, that article is about a year old.

Newfoundland and just about everywhere else is upgrading... Including Ontario. It's coming... Just far too slowly for most of us including me. Their excuses for where companies like bell are at are crap, along with their refusal to do certain areas...

I am one of those affected by the Bell refusal to upgrade... I currently rely on cellular, but have tried Xploernet satellite (it was and is crap). I would love even 5 MBps service!

I have a feeling in a year or maybe up to 3.... This is just a prediction from me.... There will probably be an announcement from the CRTC or perhaps the government.... There will be shift in the way they define communications and the services they provide.... Categories like two way landline communication (voice and data) and broadcast communication (TV and radio that is one way).

Who knows how they will classify VOD over IP.... That is just too complicated a situation for the government to regulate.

No matter, they will be doing a big shake up with how they define things...

Likely the regulation will be stating that if a company provides landline voice communications... It must provide data communication at or above the federal broadband speed by Year XXXX.

The company most affected will be the company that has done the least to upgrade.... Likely Bell. They may complain... They may stomp their feet... But somehow they will get it done. They may even threaten to remove landline voice from some areas.... More on that in abit.

Companies that started with TV, then went Internet and then voice will be least affected (mostly cable).

Those companies that threaten to remove landline voice because they can't serve.... They will be reminded of their 911 obligations, and perhaps legislated to continue landline service if required.

They already provide a level of service, the government would just be legislating them providing both voice and data.

After the resistance, will come acceptance... What would Bell then do... Upgrade everyone who isn't being provide Internet to DSL, FTTN, FTT Pole or FTTH setups... They would make it happen.

Then Bell can go back to focusing on customers with 25 Mbps speeds access and their upgrades to 175/175 packages.... Which seems to be Bells focus right now.

Far better an option than having a digital divide for the government... Makes the electorate happy. Companies can't vote export even donate now.

I predict lots of feet stomping and whining.... But we mostly got past UBB, and throttling without the world ending... A few temper tandrums. The incumbents now offer unlimited packages at almost all speed levels. The wireless code was challenged, and then incumbents just accepted it in the end.

I predict the same with legislation like this mandating a level of access to data from all incumbent voice providers.

If only the government would just say enough is enough with this lack of provision... Just say enough feet dragging on the issue... And tell the companies this is how business is going to happen in Canada.
jumpingryan

jumpingryan to elwoodblues

Member

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

They can't it would be undue perference.

Well, so is offering only the "Bell TV" subscribers.... Undue preference only if it is proven... Otherwise it is just plain rewarding customers.

I know the irony of Bell mobile TV... I can't stand what they charge them for data (in effect about $2 a gigabyte).... While charging me 7 to 10$.

It shows the massive profitability of turbo hubs, and the huge conflict of interest considering Bell is my only provider of landlines... And the decider if I recidve DSL or Fibre... Which they have chosen to provide neither.

All in all, if I had DSL, or a cap that would suport (ie Bell Turbo hubs exempt from data usage), I would probably buy this at $4.00 mainly just to have at least one option for streaming.

Sbuxfun
@174.5.67.x

Sbuxfun to jumpingryan

Anon

to jumpingryan
said by jumpingryan:

My experience with the top satellite package from Xploernet... Unsuitable for video streaming. The connection isn't stable.

I had the service for one year.

As to going to Starbucks... Nearest one is 1.5 hours away.

And my advice to you... Try living like that for a week...go to Starbucks every time you want to watch TV or use the net.

After that, tell me how you feel about it.

Nothing wrong with going to Sbux for a little surfing. I do it all the time. That's where I do all my surfing.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan

Member

I have a 10 minute drive to the nearest hotspot. I do it all the time as well... Just to save money on big downloads.... And I am usually frustrated because hotspot connections usually slow big downloads...

At $7 a gigabyte, and if I need to download a two gig version of linux.... That is $14 saved my home connection.

But I hate it, and I hate bell for making me do it.

v6movement
@135.23.225.x

v6movement to elwoodblues

Anon

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

said by HiVolt:

You'll never see the mafia clones work on smart tv's or other appliances, just apps on phones/tablets, and computers.

Sure they will, but only if you subscribe to their internet/wireless products. Those re-runs they bought isn't cheap.

That doesn't make any sense and doesn't change what HiVolt said.

Barry
join:2008-11-04
Burlington, ON

Barry to ekster

Member

to ekster
I'm all for bashing Bell, but this hasn't been about Crave for a few pages now.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to jumpingryan

Premium Member

to jumpingryan
No its not, I'd suggest you spend a bit of time reading about it.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan

Member

said by elwoodblues:

No its not, I'd suggest you spend a bit of time reading about it.

I did Elwood... Bell is still offering the TV service over mobile as of today. I had also skimmed through the disposition.

»tvanywhere.bell.ca/en

Just because you consider something wrong, and someone else challenges it in court doesn't make it illegal to offer. They don't get in "trouble" for a court challenge as you claimed.

It will take years, and would uncertain if Bell wins or the person contesting. I will say that all kinds of people make all sorts of claims in their dispositions.

I am not saying I agree with their bell TV offerings over mobile. They are giving their content over their network at a major cost reduction... not necessarily the fast lane.... But in effect a ultra discounted Lexus lane of sorts.
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

bt to DKS

Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

Most satellite customers do NOT have access to ANY DSL service.

Again, I think you're drastically underestimating how many urban satellite customers there are.
said by DKS:

It would appear that the usual urban bias is showing.

I've got a solid understanding of both Urban and Rural. I'd say this is a rural bias showing.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan

Member

said by bt:

said by DKS:

Most satellite customers do NOT have access to ANY DSL service.

Again, I think you're drastically underestimating how many urban satellite customers there are.
said by DKS:

It would appear that the usual urban bias is showing.

I've got a solid understanding of both Urban and Rural. I'd say this is a rural bias showing.

I agree with you BT, there are a few reasons people will be reluctant to dump sat TV for Bell's IPTV offerings.... Both rural and suburban. A lot of people are reluctant to change... Espicially to enter new contracts with install fees. As well, people,often own their receivers... And are eager to avoid the perpetual rental cycle. If it works... Why fix it?

Bell IPTV/ FTTHis best focused on high density urban customer first... The urban types that just can't get a satellite dish due to local codes or direction. Prior to IPTV, Bell had nothing to offer those customers.

After that, Bell is best to focus on upgrading those who have no net access with FTTN.... those on aerial lines Espicially. Those customers will likely be EASILY locked up to Bell for years or even decades if Bell upgrades them.... Espicially since the competition is usually Xplornet.

Often those rural areas are barely being provided service as is... The wiring and setups are often rusted out to the point they need repair.

Those in the middle, waiting for FTTH at their suburban houses built 7 years ago isn't necessarily going to be a major uograde crowd for the next little while... It is just too hard to upgrade to FTTH for them. They also likely already have FTTN.

A lot of people just liked the sat Bell TV interface.... And a lot of people just stick to what they are used to. I see dish installs all around suburban areas... After using Cogeco and Bell TV interfaces... I do like the Bell Sat TV interface better.

v6movement
@135.23.225.x

v6movement to bt

Anon

to bt
said by bt:

said by DKS:

Most satellite customers do NOT have access to ANY DSL service.

Again, I think you're drastically underestimating how many urban satellite customers there are.

Exactly, there are a hell of a lot of satellite customers in urban areas. Don't just assume because people are in an urban area that they will go with cable or Bell's IPTV offering.
Dunlop
join:2011-07-13

Dunlop to Barry

Member

to Barry
said by Barry:

I'm all for bashing Bell, but this hasn't been about Crave for a few pages now.

lol, I've clicked on this thread so many times thinking it was actual news about the service
Doonz (banned)
join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB

Doonz (banned) to ekster

Member

to ekster
Anyhow,

Back on topic.

Is this going to be a full roll out on the 11th of Dec? or only beta for Bell customers?

Does anyone have a list of supported devices?

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to jumpingryan

Premium Member

to jumpingryan
It's CRTC reg, at the same time the CRTC tried to force Bell to share their NFL mobile with the other carriers, that didn't go over very well. The NFL told them to go pound sand.
Anzio
join:2008-11-22

Anzio to Doonz

Member

to Doonz
said by Doonz:

Is this going to be a full roll out on the 11th of Dec? or only beta for Bell customers?

Does anyone have a list of supported devices?

It will be available on December 11th to Bell Satellite TV, Bell Fibe TV, Bell Aliant, and Eastlink customers. I do not believe it has a beta status attached to it.

So it won't be available outside those providers, but that's not a matter of it being beta, but rather other providers not signing on.

Regarding devices, I believe Fibe TV boxes, some Smart TV's, desktop (probably Flash), iOS App (will support AirPlay for viewing through Apple TV), likely Android app, and Xbox coming later I believe.

They're quite responsive on their Facebook page.
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan

Member

Has anybody got an idea if data useage is billed for using this service? So far I still havnt heard....

Since I only have turbo hub as no DSL is available to my house, it would be go/no go criteria for me if they still billed data.

(And I don't use Facebook, so I can't ask there)
Dunlop
join:2011-07-13

Dunlop

Member

said by jumpingryan:

Has anybody got an idea if data useage is billed for using this service? So far I still havnt heard....

I would imagine they have to or Netflix would have a nice case against them
Doonz (banned)
join:2010-11-27
Beaumont, AB

Doonz (banned) to Anzio

Member

to Anzio
said by Anzio:

said by Doonz:

Is this going to be a full roll out on the 11th of Dec? or only beta for Bell customers?

Does anyone have a list of supported devices?

It will be available on December 11th to Bell Satellite TV, Bell Fibe TV, Bell Aliant, and Eastlink customers. I do not believe it has a beta status attached to it.

So it won't be available outside those providers, but that's not a matter of it being beta, but rather other providers not signing on.

Regarding devices, I believe Fibe TV boxes, some Smart TV's, desktop (probably Flash), iOS App (will support AirPlay for viewing through Apple TV), likely Android app, and Xbox coming later I believe.

They're quite responsive on their Facebook page.

Ah ok.

Netflix Hulu and Torrentz for me then
jumpingryan
join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

jumpingryan to Dunlop

Member

to Dunlop
said by Dunlop:

said by jumpingryan:

Has anybody got an idea if data useage is billed for using this service? So far I still havnt heard....

I would imagine they have to or Netflix would have a nice case against them

I honestly hope they do not chage for data and for my own benefit in the near term.... As well as possibily to allow them to be court challenged later. I don't agree with them on a policy standpoint not charging data.... But it would allow me to subscribe.

I doubt Netflix would do the challenge though. They don't have a single bit of representation here.. And in reality what good would it do for Netflix?? They already have the brand name recognition!

I am fed up totally with the turbo hub data charges, but only have one other choice... Satellite Xplornet (even worse in terms of service). So far thenCRTC hasn't even considered the issues that affect non wireline customers other than to mention it in chatter about how bad we must have it... And chatter on about finding a way to do something about it.
Dunlop
join:2011-07-13

Dunlop to ekster

Member

to ekster
Netflix had to introduce a special low quality streaming tier just for Canadians as Rogers lowered their download caps in response to Netflix coming to Canada (in hopes you bust your cap, get a huge bill because of it and cancel Netflix).

They have no love for Canada and I am sure would respond