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fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

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fartness (banned)

Member

[Rant] OTA digital TV

I swear this switch to digital TV channels is a fucking conspiracy by the cable companies so people switch to cable TV. I don't get squat for a signal on most channels and I live in the damn city of license for these so called TV channels. I had a rotary roof antenna that barely did anything and I have a $40 indoor antenna that got good reviews. Speaking of reviews, Tripadvisor and Yelp are another conspiracy but I'll save that for another day. The channels are in and out and in and out and in and out. It should be illegal for me to not receive local channels. Before this switch I got all the local channels with no issue and even out of market channels. Many people I know without cable complain about the same thing who live around here. Blood pressure rising because I'm trying to watch the football game and autocorrect is dicking around with me too.
TheMG
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join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
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TheMG

Premium Member

One of the downsides of digital is that it's all or nothing. Either you have a strong enough SNR for the data to decode properly, or you don't.

When it works, digital OTA ATSC broadcast is awesome, but when it doesn't work, it can indeed be quite frustrating.

Have you had a look at »tvfool.com/ to see where the transmitters are actually located?

If you don't mind saying, what city do you live in?

I find it hard to believe that you can't get a proper signal with a roof mounted antenna, unless the transmitters are quite far away or you have major obstructions. Perhaps something is wrong with the installation, the coaxial cables to your TV, problem with the receiving equipment (TV, converter box), etc. But without knowing where you are in relation to the transmitters and how powerful those transmitters are, it's hard to tell.

FWIW, I lived in Leduc, Alberta for a short time and was in a basement suite. My OTA antenna consisted of two pieces of copper wire hanging by the window, and I was able to receive 6 of the 7 local broadcasts no problem. Distance to the transmitters between 16-21 miles.

davidg
Good Bye My Friend
MVM
join:2002-06-15
00000

davidg to fartness

MVM

to fartness
the city of license means nothing, the transmitters are often well outside of town on tall towers. the 2 stations "licensed" for here are both a minimum 25 miles away from here. One is actually closer to 35 miles away!

do you have an amplifier to put in line with the roof mount? it will often help if the signal just comes and goes. Also if you can get the antenna higher it may help.

Finally, the cable companies had nothing to do with it. The FCC got BILLIONS of dollars from auctioning off the frequencies. Heck my company got millions of dollars from doing work to get people that bought a bunch of those licenses.
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned)

Member

Transmitters are about 5 air miles from me on the hill. It's relatively flat everywhere else around it. Should be easy LOS.

I don't remember if the roof antenna had an amplifier or not. I pitched it since it was useless. My indoor antenna has an amplifier.

Cable companies knew digital TV would suck so they paid the government off to get digital passed into law. Now people will give up on OTA and get cable and the cable companies can recoup their costs.

davidg
Good Bye My Friend
MVM
join:2002-06-15
00000

davidg

MVM

you need to know if they are VHF or UHF and have the proper antenna as well. since they are 5 miles you may be getting too much signal, it may need a pad.
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned)

Member

They're both. The antenna is proper. I've tried other antennas too that I've returned.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
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TheMG to fartness

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There's gotta be something going on. If you're only 5 miles from the transmitters with LOS you should be getting a pretty good signal with virtually no effort.

Have you tried a different TV? Maybe the tuner is buggered or just poor to begin with.

robbin
Mod
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX

robbin to fartness

Mod

to fartness
Everything is not proper. We use OTA and have good reception at 20 miles with a small antenna.
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned) to TheMG

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to TheMG
Tried 3 TVs.
TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada
MikroTik RB450G
Cisco DPC3008
Cisco SPA112

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TheMG

Premium Member

Have you also tried different coax cables? Indoor antenna connected straight to the TV (no splitters or anything else)?

It's possible there could be a very strong nearby signal that is swamping the receiver, but it would be difficult to diagnose without proper test equipment to measure signal strengths.
BoulderHill1
join:2004-07-15
Montgomery, IL

1 recommendation

BoulderHill1 to fartness

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to fartness
said by fartness:

Before this switch I got all the local channels with no issue

Obviously your mileage varies, but for me...

Before the switch I had trouble getting four channels.

I am in chicagoland (southwest suburbs) about 55 miles from downtown.

Since the switch to digital OTA I get about 60 channels. All crystal clear. Many in glorious HD with 5.1 audio.
said by fartness:

Cable companies knew digital TV would suck so they paid the government off to get digital passed into law. Now people will give up on OTA and get cable and the cable companies can recoup their costs.

I personally don't see this since digital OTA works amazingly well. Why give up on OTA and start paying for TV?

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas to fartness

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i wish you luck, ive said countless times over the years thanks to "the big switch" i can no longer get my locals, with analog i could get them indoors with none amplified rabbit ears, fuzzy a bit, but i could get um. after the switch? nothing. i still say part of it is one station severely cutting power in order to get retrans fees. (they used to be 100Kw if i recall right) ive tried a "proper" out door amplified antenna and i still cant get um, and frankly im not willing to pay more than that, id only save a whole $15/mo by dropping basic from mediacom (since i all so need them for internet, id get hit with that $15 internet only fee, so meh) and i see no point in paying $300+ to have an outdoor setup installed (legally blind, "i" cant do it, and landloard requires things like that be professionally done. and what ever setup i get would need to work with multiple tv's with out a rotor)

im of the stance that if you cant get your locals with a standard ordinary set of rabbit ears and your in there "dma" you shouldnt be charge one thin cent to get them.

oh, heres the tvfool map for my addy »www.tvfool.com/?option=c ··· 80bd7479 im only interested in walb, wabw, and wfxl, course its color coded (color blind, yay.)

now, in your case if your really that close im surprised you cant get anything, i mean, at that distance if anything you should be getting to much signal.

of course, since its digital instead of analog now its not like you can tune to the channel and look for harringbone pattern, etc. to try and figure out what interference your getting. (gee, that was smart on there part wasnt it?)

i would check the coax, antenna, and of course connectors. maybe pick up an FM trap? i remember getting bad FM interference when we lived in columbus ga back in around 1989 because our neighbor out back had a lovely CB she had amplified (only time i ever saw an FCC truck actually show up some where)
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman to fartness

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Can you turn the indoor antenna amplifier off? Too much signal can be as bad as too little. What is the make and model of the indoor antenna? As others have pointed out it might help if you could reveal more about your location, without giving out your exact address of course. Nearest intersection of two minor roads? Nearest intersection of two major roads?

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to BoulderHill1

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to BoulderHill1
I get 54. most are worthless spanish and religion.
dvd536

1 recommendation

dvd536 to thedragonmas

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to thedragonmas
amped CB thats a big no no!
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

1 recommendation

davidhoffman to fartness

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Sorry, the cable companies had little to do with the switch from NTSC standards to ATSC standards. Cable TV was already benefitting from people wanting to get away from the severe multipath distortion that existed in many cities. In addition cable companies had content that OTA did not. There was no need to help create a signalling mess. The broadcasters and the FCC were the main instigators. Of course there were some Representatives and Senators involved. The ATSC was committed to providing service to the most remote rural areas with HD. That resulted in a fragile signal. The ATSC and the FCC used unrealistic antenna size and placement criteria to develop the ATSC standard. Other nations use a more robust signal system and do not worry about serving rural customers. Potential rural customers of television are usually expected to use satellite in those nations.

One thing to know is that in the negotiations for the switch from NTSC to ATSC the FCC allowed the OTA broadcasters to lower their output power levels significantly. The idea was that reduced electrical usage would help pay for the new equipment needed for ATSC. The calculations that were used were based on overly optimistic models of of how well ATSC signals would perform at any particular distance. As a result many OTA stations are now operating at significantly less than 50% of what they did under NTSC standards. At your distance of 5 miles that should not matter much, but it is a factor to consider.

I would suggest contacting Dennys Antenna Service »www.dennysantennaservice.com/ and see if they might be able to advise you. As others have suggested using TVFool at »tvfool.com/ would be good. Also look at the AVS Forum »www.avsforum.com/forum/4 ··· ere.html
They have a decent reputation for helping solve some OTA reception issues.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
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Palm Springs, CA
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fuziwuzi to fartness

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My parents live in the rural mountains of Virginia. They're equally distant (about 45 miles as the crow flies) from the Roanoke VA and Greensboro NC markets. They have a rooftop rotating antenna. It is amazing the number of channels they get, very clearly. Even with the mountains. They're getting channels from Raleigh-Durham (nearly 80 miles away) and Charlotte NC (again, nearly 80 miles or more). I counted over 50 very clear and steady channels. Many are repeats (about 3 of each major network) and lot of "what the **** is that?" but still not bad.
Quattrohead
Premium Member
join:2005-02-09

Quattrohead to fartness

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Have you tried using a different TV ? My JVC is as deaf as a post but a cheap Sansui will receive double the number of channels, most of them crap though !!!
Also you may have a bad cable or splitter, radar or a local FM station swamping your system.
Most TV's do have a signal meter in the settings, some even separate strength and quality.

OldCableGuy3
@207.191.193.x

OldCableGuy3 to fartness

Anon

to fartness
Something is not adding up. Transmitters 5 miles away on a hill? You should be able to get them with a paperclip stuck in the F connector on a TV. I'm 25 miles away from the transmitter for some of my locals without LOS and I can pick them up perfectly. I am guessing the transmitters are nowhere near where OP thinks they are, he's probably aiming for a cell tower or an FM radio station or something. LOOK UP WHERE THE TRANSMITTERS REALLY ARE and point your rooftop antenna toward that instead of guessing.

carpetshark3
Premium Member
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO

carpetshark3 to fartness

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We do just fine with both rotating and indoor antennas. Even a couple of TVs still using converter boxes.

Since where the antennae sit is a matter of where they can sit (if they have a base) I've noticed that I can break up a station just by walking in front of the antenna. The main rabbit ear in the family room is well overhead.

One time we had a neighbor with a bad electrical component in his car that would static the hell out of the TV - (we could see the car go by each time)

One other thing - what type of housing? I had a friend who could not receive a cell call in the house even though walking around the house outside produced full bars.
She also didn't have very many windows, but if she sat near one, she could talk. We don't have that many windows either, but what we have are huge.

I know the cell problem is a frequency issue, but what makes the issue? metal contruction? stucco?, different wiring components?, new types of insulation?

Is the interference the same at all times of day?

I'd check what davidhoffman and the MG said.

We use the outdoor for stations in a certain direction.

F100
join:2013-01-15
Durham, NC
Alcatel-Lucent G-010G-A
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Have you tried contacting the TV station's RF engineering team? I know the stations here in the Raleigh area are good about giving you info about their tower setups, transmit power, polarization, ect., and can give you pointers to go on.

Too much signal can cause over load on the signal and be as bad as a weak signal. antennaweb.org and tvfool.com can show the the stations transmit power as given to the FCC. Sometimes work on the tower can result in less power but I don't think it can ever be higher than listed.

At 5 miles, you may need and attenuator to reduce the signal to prevent overload. Multi-path interference is also more of an issues with ATSC as the signals bouncing off building arrive at a different time. This used to create ghosting in Analog but it can be problematic for some ATSC tuners.

DFC
join:2011-11-08
Staten Island, NY

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I agree with those who feel that ATSC was designed to fail. It's a crummy fragile system.
drslash (banned)
Goya Asma
join:2002-02-18
Marion, IA

1 recommendation

drslash (banned) to fartness

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If the OP is indeed only 5 miles from the transmitters then his equipment is faulty of there is a source of interference nearby.
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman to carpetshark3

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to carpetshark3
Metal roofs, metal piping, metal window blinds, and metal furniture can all distort the OTA signal.
dmagerl
Premium Member
join:2007-08-06
Woodstock, IL

dmagerl to fartness

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Cant help you much unless you tell us your zipcode, antenna model, and if there are any splitters between the antenna and TV.

Unless you just want to rant, that's fine too.

SqueeksDad
I Miss Her
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join:2002-09-14
Hyattsville, MD

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Am I coming in clear?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· JEg&hd=1
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

fartness (banned) to dmagerl

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to dmagerl
No splitters. Zip 14615. I'll get the antenna model after the holiday when I'm back home.

Domane
Premium Member
join:2013-04-18

Domane to fartness

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OTA is pretty good in the US, at least in the greater LA area. What you miss is certain sports, especially in "playoffs" or "bowl" type games" and a good selection of movies not to mentioned that when you get a good movie its all ways highly censored and edited.
dmagerl
Premium Member
join:2007-08-06
Woodstock, IL

dmagerl to fartness

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For your zipcode, tvfool.com says you should be drowning in signal strength, only 5 miles away and line of site to the tower for all 5 major networks.

There's something terribly wrong with your antenna system if you cant receive anything and my guess would be something wrong with your feedline system since you also implied the roof antenna didnt work either. You could probably put a coathanger on your roof for an antenna and still get adequate signal if everything was working right.

Of course you could have too much signal. You could be overdriving the tuner front end, especially if there is a preamp anywhere in the system.

Also, those small inside antennas are always UHF only and work poorly on VHF. Your station list shows that two of them, NBC and ABC, are on VHF channels.

Also, you could have multipath, commonly called ghosting in the old analog days. Your station list on Tvfool shows 4 low power analog stations, 2 being line of sight. Do you still have an old analog TV? Can you connect it up and see if you can receive them?

Sorry to say it, but if you want this fixed, it's going to take some troubleshooting on your end.
ramsaso
Premium Member
join:2014-01-04
Houston, TX

ramsaso

Premium Member

Sometimes TVFool isn't perfect.

It states that there's a low powered station in the Houston area (ZIP: 77042) though there isn't any anymore.