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natedj
Elected
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join:2001-06-06
Irmo, SC

2 edits

natedj

Premium Member

ebay Scammer found loophole in USPS/eBay & Buyers Protection is a Joke

I've been with eBay about 14 years and I've sold quite a few products and bought quite a few as well so I think I can spot a scammer a mile away. But when I was scammed, eBay also failed me.

I was determine to get a good deal on a New iPad Air 2 so I sold my old iPad and combed through eBay to get a good deal on a new one. I filtered my sellers to "North America only" and the most attractive deal was a seller in Puerto Rico ... first red flag. The seller had (2) recent negative feedback on the selling side and there was only a stock photo of the item. That is when I should have left well enough alone but the seller had a long history with eBay with over 700 in feedback, a 97% rating and the attraction of the eBay's "Buyers Protection" pushed me over the fence. I figured if worse comes to worse I'll loose my time but not my money.

Well after I paid for the item, I got a shipping tracking number about two hours later showing that the seller purchased 3-day Priority shipping through eBay. It then took three more days before the item was picked up by USPS and entered into their system. I impatiently waited for the package to make its way to my door with an uneasy feeling that this probably won't end well. Then about 8 days later it was on the truck scheduled for delivery.

I sat by the window looking for the courier to come walking up to my door but she just pulled up to my mailbox in her van, tossed in a few pieces of mail and proceeded on with her route. Sort of puzzled, I waited for her to return when she noticed that she still had a package to deliver, but that never happened. After a couple hours I went back online and checked the tracking status. It said "Notice Left (No Authorized Recipient Available)" I was livid!!!!!

She did not even leave her van, how the heck can she leave a notice and says "no one was available". I pulled up my surveillance footage and it showed her just tossing mail in my mailbox and driving off, nice, I'll take this to the Post office and raise hell.

So the next business day I visited the post office and decided to start slow instead of going in like a raving maniac. I simply told the clerk I'm here to pick up a package because the courier didn't drop it off. I gave her my name and she went in the back to retrieve it. She came back about five minutes later, "sorry sir no package with that name on it" then she ask for a tracking number ... and I gave it to her. She went to the back and came back 5 minutes later to ask me my name ... again. I told her again and she disappeared in the back again. She came back and ask me my address. I told her that too and she went in the back again. I'm standing there knowing that this is not going to end well and thinking of all sorts of thoughts when she came out with a package in her hand.

She said that they have a package with the exact tracking number on it but my name is not on it and it was not addressed to me. I caught a glimpse of the item and it was a thin, flexible, large envelope, definitely not an iPad in that. The clerk said that whoever is sending the package is committing fraud because the online tracking has my name and address, but the actual package with the same tracking number has a different address on it. The address was on my street but not my address. She printed out the full tracking report and gave me a copy. She said that they cannot legally give me the package, so as of now it is still in their custody. I left empty handed except for the copy of the tracking report.

I came home and relayed the story to eBay and I was assured that I would be protected by the "Buyers Protection" I just had to go through the process of working with the seller before they step in. After reaching out to the seller, the seller simply reposted the online tracking number on the dispute page which showed my name and address and that the package was at the Post office waiting to be picked up. I told the seller that the package was not addressed to me and even if it was addressed to me, the contents of the package did not contain an iPad. The seller said that he'll refund my money and pick up the matter with the post office ... but the refund never came.

I escalated the dispute to eBay and withing 48 hours they sided with the Seller. I called to appeal this decision and was told that since I did not pick up the package they would have to side with the seller. I reminded them that UPSP policy states that if a package is unclaimed the it goes back to the seller in 15 days in which case he'll have his package back. But they said that that won't affect their decision, seller still wins. I told them that I could not claim the package even if I wanted to because the seller used a different name and address on the package that was different to the name and address on the tracking number. They said that it was my word against his and he's claiming something totally different. That's when I remembered the tracking log the clerk gave me and it has the item weight of 1 lb 1oz, shipped in a padded envelope and the shipping cost $5.05 coming from Puerto Rico. So I'm having to send eBay this information to review the case and I'm still awaiting word.

After rehashing this in my head this is what happened.
The seller had no intentions of sending me an iPad as promised but after he got my payment and shipping address he purchased a shipping label via ebay to satisfy the eBay/USPS system. Then he Googled/Zillowed my address to see where I lived. He then found a house that was on my street that was vacant (a house that was for sale) and addressed the package to that address by conveniently taping over my name and address with the fake name and address but leaving the tracking number exposed. So the mail courier would only deliver to the fake address and I can't claim the package since its not addressed to me. But when eBay or anyone tracks it online, all the info would appear as though he's playing by the rules.

I hope this helps someone one and that eBay and USPS find a way to close this loophole.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_

Premium Member

Charge back ? this will screw the seller since he will have to pay the fee

natedj
Elected
Premium Member
join:2001-06-06
Irmo, SC

natedj

Premium Member

I used PayPal Credit (formally known as bill-me-later) to pay for it so I can maximize my eBay bucks, and also use the interest free promo. Can I do a chargeback with the way I paid?
pfqdrx
join:2002-11-23
Whitehall, PA

2 recommendations

pfqdrx to natedj

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to natedj
I would go back to the Post office and tell the local Postmaster that I want to file charges for mail fraud. maybe a bit of prosecution will jar the seller back to reality. Use all available methods, not just eBay.

Tex
Dave's not here
Premium Member
join:2012-10-20

Tex to natedj

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to natedj
Apparently, this "loophole" in USPS Delivery Confirmation is not something new. I just read a blog post from April 2009 that addresses this very scenario. Aside from continuing to pursue this through eBay, I would suggest having the post office go after this scammer.
zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC

zod5000 to natedj

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Doesn't Paypal have a dispute mechanism as well? I had an issue about 6 years ago (not as complicated as yours.. in my case the guy never shipped the item) but I disputed it through paypal and not through ebay. I think paypal has buyer protection too... you could try that?

I'm surprised the guy has a 97% positive rating. You would think if his scamming was rampant his rating would be lower....

Most ebay purchases are paid via paypal, so I've never seen what happens when you reverse a CC charge on something paid through paypal. I would have to imagine paypal wouldn't be too happy about that, because it's probably them who eats the loss (maybe they'd freeze the account or something).
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

1 recommendation

Hellrazor to natedj

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Always pay with a credit card..

Always pay with a credit card....

Always pay with a credit card!

Even if you have one crappy CC with a $1000 limit to use there.
zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC

zod5000 to natedj

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Can you pay for ebay purchases directly on a CC? I always thought you had to use paypal as an intermediary to do that?

WillRegSoon
@74.89.66.x

WillRegSoon

Anon

It's the seller's choice what payment methods he accepts.

Tex
Dave's not here
Premium Member
join:2012-10-20

Tex to Hellrazor

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to Hellrazor
said by Hellrazor:

Always pay with a credit card..

Always pay with a credit card....

Always pay with a credit card!

Even if you have one crappy CC with a $1000 limit to use there.

Monday morning quarterback much?

The OP stated he thought he was protected with eBay's Buyer Protection. Also, he wanted to take advantage of eBay Bucks and use the interest-free promotion. You can't fault him for that. I've done the exact same thing many times. Fortunately, I've never been scammed.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to natedj

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to natedj
How long has it been? if under 45 days open a Paypal dispute right now.
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

Hellrazor to Tex

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to Tex
said by Tex:

Monday morning quarterback much?

The OP stated he thought he was protected with eBay's Buyer Protection. Also, he wanted to take advantage of eBay Bucks and use the interest-free promotion. You can't fault him for that. I've done the exact same thing many times. Fortunately, I've never been scammed.

I take it you failed rocket scientist school? I have preached about using CC's on ebay before and so have others.

I haven't believed in ebays buyer protection program from day one and neither have a lot of other people. A lot of people have been burned by the system after thinking they were covered.

I have used a CC for every ebay transaction I have ever made. I have not had a negative issue but at least I have a recourse again a scam.

Tex
Dave's not here
Premium Member
join:2012-10-20

1 recommendation

Tex

Premium Member

said by Hellrazor:

said by Tex:

Monday morning quarterback much?

The OP stated he thought he was protected with eBay's Buyer Protection. Also, he wanted to take advantage of eBay Bucks and use the interest-free promotion. You can't fault him for that. I've done the exact same thing many times. Fortunately, I've never been scammed.

I take it you failed rocket scientist school? I have preached about using CC's on ebay before and so have others.

I haven't believed in ebays buyer protection program from day one and neither have a lot of other people. A lot of people have been burned by the system after thinking they were covered.

I have used a CC for every ebay transaction I have ever made. I have not had a negative issue but at least I have a recourse again a scam.

Obviously, no one reads what you preach, do they? Even if they did, just because you do or don't do something or because you believe or don't believe in something or because you have used a credit card for every transaction doesn't mean you are the Internet's eBay expert, genius. And, telling someone what to do after the fact does nothing to help the situation when the damage has been done.

hortnut
Huh?
join:2005-09-25
PDX Metro

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I used to work in Insurance Claims and claims that were Fraudulent were prosecuted by the USPS for Federal Charges and time behind bars were at a Federal Facility. We had procedures in place to follow when we suspected or discovered Fraud. And there were agreements between Insurance Companies and the USPS as to cost sharing in the prosecution. In that capacity I would not accept a claim unless a certain form was filled out, notarized and sent via USPS. Then I would send my file to the Fraud Dept and they would handle from there. We would never hear back the results, except a big one of mine hit the news years later.

Go back to the Post Office, as others have said, and talk with the Post Master with the intent of filing a claim with USPS with what facts you have. Otherwise USPS tracking numbers mean nothing and I am pretty sure they are aware of that and would want to protect that feature from misuse.

OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

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Not surprised, as that is a very old scam, been around ever since the USPS has had electronic labels like this.

Another avenue could be a BBB or Attorney General complaint against eBay/PayPal that will at least get someones attention there.

BKayrac
Premium Member
join:2001-09-29

BKayrac to natedj

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to natedj
Couldn't you just ask USPS to look at the label, wouldn't it be blatantly apparent that there is simply a sticker or something else over top of the original label? Or couldn't they simply look up the tracking number and see it's supposed to goto a different address(yours) but the label has a sticker over it showing a different one?

I feel like this should be extremely easy for anyone at the post office to realize something fishy is going on, and take the steps to resolve it, whether it be fraud, or give you the package?

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert to natedj

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to natedj
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope eBay/Paypal comes to their senses and makes it right.

It's pretty sad that people spend so much energy taking advantage of others -- to think if they would apply that much energy in a positive way, how much we, as a society, could accomplish in this world.
hchen42
join:1999-12-23
New York, NY

hchen42 to BKayrac

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to BKayrac
said by BKayrac:

Couldn't you just ask USPS to look at the label

Actually, it's easy to modify that label without having to put a label over the "original". I am not going to disclose the technique here.

What OP posted here is an alert to eBay, Paypal , USPS, Amazon and all eCommerce. This is definitely a potential scam loophole. I wonder if buying postage directly from USPS would be more secure. Since all destination address would be in USPS database and not in Paypal, eBay database. This way, USPS can check the label and the destination address entered.

If I were OP, I'd send this incident to all local media investigative reporters. With CyberMonday coming up, they'd love the "sensationalize" this kind of story. Perhaps this will catch USPS, eBay and Paypal to actually do something.

natedj
Elected
Premium Member
join:2001-06-06
Irmo, SC

natedj

Premium Member

I called the local post office again and spoke with the same lady that gave me the printout of the items tracking history. She remembered me and agreed it was mail fraud but said that there is nothing that she can do on her end. I asked about reporting mail fraud and she said since the package didn't originate from that branch that there’s not much they can do and before I can drill her with more questions or options she placed me on hold until I hung up 15 minutes later. I called back and asked for her but after a 10 minute hold she never picked up so I hung up. I called again and spoke to someone else and after relaying the whole saga again they simply took my name, number and promised to call me back in 20 minutes …. That also never happened.

I then called the USPS main office. They were sympathetic but said in a nutshell that there is not much they can do. I asked “what about reporting or investigating it” and I was given the option of talking with a fraud specialist or filling out the online form. I chose the speak with the fraud specialist who then directed me to fill out the online form after hearing the whole saga, go figure.

Next in line was PayPay. I called and informed them of the situation but since it was a Paypal Credit purchase I had to be transferred to Bill me later (I though reason behind calling the company PayPal Credit is because they’re one of the same now) … whatever just transfer me. The guy at PayPay Credit led me to an online form to file a dispute and said that the payments won’t be required when it’s in dispute and they will review the case also. So I fax them all the info and documents I had.

So between my appeal to eBay, the Mail Fraud form I sent off and the dispute with Paypal credit I’m expecting something to come out of it. It is still scary that USPS doesn't seem too motivated to take action by claiming that there is not much that they can do.
natedj

natedj to BKayrac

Premium Member

to BKayrac
The USPS office know its fraud. They are the ones that figured this out while I was waiting for the package. But what I'm hearing from them is that there is nothing they can do.
The package does not have what I purchased so by them giving me the package would gain me nothing.
dplantz
join:2000-08-02
Bradenton, FL

dplantz

Member

I would contact the post office in Puerto Rico that the package was mailed from and speak to the post master there to start a fraud investigation
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned) to natedj

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to natedj
said by natedj:

It is still scary that USPS doesn't seem too motivated to take action by claiming that there is not much that they can do.
--

Lazy over paid waiting to retire idiots. Or way past retirement taking in more dollars.
I prefer the DMV to the post office.
nonymous

nonymous (banned) to dplantz

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to dplantz
said by dplantz:

I would contact the post office in Puerto Rico that the package was mailed from and speak to the post master there to start a fraud investigation

Really should not have to. So it did not originate with the local post office. It is all the post office. The local post office should be able to transfer the matter to the Puerto Rico office.
Oh and Puerto Rico is part of the US not a totally foreign land.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas to natedj

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to natedj
there technically right, you dont bother with the locals as i found out in the passed. you deal with these folks »www.uspsoig.gov/ while your at it you could all ways contact the media, be sure to CC the above. the USPS dont want people to figure out the tracking numbers mean dit squat, especially since there often times used in legal cases. while the local yokles might night give a damn, im guessing the ones in charge of media relations would be. (oh, and if you happen to have a conservative congressman, go for it, they love any excuse to cut down the USPS)

edit: while your at it, if you get no where with getting back your money, you can all ways take ebay/paypal to small claims, yeah sure its a PITA, but chances are that 1. no one will bother showing up. and 2. youd get legal fees and can probably tack on another $500 "just cuz" fee for your trouble.

PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
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join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY

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PhoenixDown to natedj

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to natedj
Look to file a small claims suit against ebay for breach of contract (fraud protection) and bring the mountain of evidence with you. They will either settle (since they have to pay for a lawyer) or you will have a good chance of winning.
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned) to natedj

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to natedj
Question I use my credit card on paypal then Paypal on eBay. If this happened could I do a charge back still from credit card on Paypal thus eBay?
nonymous

nonymous (banned) to thedragonmas

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to thedragonmas
said by thedragonmas:

there technically right, you dont bother with the locals as i found out in the passed. you deal with these folks »www.uspsoig.gov/ while your at it you could all ways contact the media,

Technically lazy. Not thier problem and too lazy to help or forward it or even say who too call.
My post office is they love to gab with the old customers. Have a conversation while moving as slow as possible and holding up the line. Then next conversation. Better get luchy as sometimes slow and others long line.
But they move at same pace SLOW if line short of long.

natedj
Elected
Premium Member
join:2001-06-06
Irmo, SC

1 edit

natedj

Premium Member

Well, I believe that I've gotten this resolved by eBay.
I received a phone call today from eBay. They wanted to follow up on the appeal that I filed. They ask me if I had more evidence to show them. This kind of took me by surprise so I asked if they saw the tracking log I uploaded last week. They said no. apparently after sending me a link to upload the additional documents, they didn't even check their inbox, but I'm glad they did call me to follow up on it.

They placed me on hold to review the additional documents which simply consisted of a PDF scan of the tracking log and a description of my ordeal (pretty much what I posted here in this thread) The rep came back online and said that they will reverse the decision and refund my payment anywhere from 48 hrs to two weeks. Then I promptly got an email stating that they are issuing a "courtesy refund". Not sure what that means, are they not going to pursuit the seller??? Incidentally the seller is actually a "she" and not a "he" as I thought. Too bad eBay erased my negative feedback when the initial decision was made in favor of the seller.

With all the stress involved, at least this end well for me. Beware of the eBay landmines. Oh, and I'm not holding my breath on the USPS fraud report I filed.

Boricua
Premium Member
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

Boricua to natedj

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to natedj
I feel for you on your ordeal. I've been buying on eBay for many years and have been fortunate I haven't been scammed in this manner. I found out many years ago not to link your PayPal account with you bank account which I promptly did. I'm using a different bank account for PayPal than my everyday account I personally use. Also, as has been mentioned years ago as well, I've been using my CC for purchases so I can do a chargeback when the need arises. Thankfully, it ended well for you and hopefully whoever reads this to be aware.

'Tis the season .

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

1 edit

Anonymous_

Premium Member

actually ebay buyer protection is only 30 or 45 days even though ebay claims 90 days my sister got screwed on a laptop she paid 400$ for. I had not opened the laptop tell 40 days later when I set it up for her

I ended up having to reinstall the OS

since it was opened and had a password on windows and there is no cracking it since it was window 8

laptop turned out to be a total lemon (Toshiba Satellite C855-S5194)

touch pad is broke after only 3-4 hours of use (stopped working)