Canadian Chat → Insane catfood prices (and no savings at Amazon?)

Well I've got 2, 10 year old tortoise shell cats who are sisters.

The oldest has been with us since forever, her sister joined us about a year ago after grandma dearly departed and left us the other half of the terror twins.

Both are 18lbs, tortoise shells are notoriously big but these two are in the BBW category.

The oldest won't touch wet, her sister won't touch dry. They pretty much both came that way, nothing we did

Anyways, both are fed the best: Origen for dry food ($55 for 15lbs, human grade quality and a 100 mile diet, except the pacific salmon obviously, which is flown in fresh never frozen) and honest to goodness, real flaked trout in a can.

I can absolutely understand wanting to spend as little as possible, those cans of trout are like $2.20 each and we barely get a full day out of one. The way I see it, because they don't forage and are beholden to us for their energy requirements, I'd sooner err on the side of higher quality nutrition.

I do it every day. They will always take the wet before the dry.

So do I.

yup.

while the wellness core is higher rated, it's list of ingredients is very similar to the Costco stuff i already buy, which is also likely half the price.

»www.dogfoodadvisor.com/d ··· ore-dry/

I wouldn't recommend feeding any dry food, neither. Cats are designed to get their water from food. That's the way nature designed them, they have low thirst drive. When fed dry, they won't drink enough to compensate for the lack of moisture. They will only consume about 50% of the water they should be having. This can lead to kidney disease, UTI, crystals, blockage, renal failure and more.

I checked out Origen 's website, boy it's very slick marketing.

I've never dealt with their marketing department, just a bunch of cats and dogs who have responded very well to its A1 ingredients.

From the same site Jeff quoted: »www.dogfoodadvisor.com/d ··· og-food/

I agree with that advice... "generally". Your vet should recommend an individual feeding plan for each animal based on it's needs and specifically health issues.

We had alot of challanges with food being a multi-cat family. We had to find one that agreed with Paulie cat's health needs (he has food allergies) , and was palatable to the others.

In most cases, dry food is best for most cats, and we have experimented with rationing to some success (however we are now just using the eat when they want method of full bowl).

We used to use the Petmate LeBistro Portion control auto feeder (we owned two)... but with 3 cats it is hard to ensure they are all getting their fair share.

An auto feeder works as a part of connivence, but you have to monitor the thing. You can't leave for days and trust it. It is more for those with uneven work hours, and cats that like a very regular schedule. It works good, just be cautious with it. From battery failures to clogs... don't leave your cats hanging and wanting for food!

Dryfood is probably best for cats that are heavier set and not as active. They have a tendency to gain weight. Wet food can help with cats that need to eat immediately (such as cats that just got an insulin shot).

We have fostered 4 sets of kittens from the SPCA, and have owned 4 cats in total (now down to two, one died from a wild animal, and another due to illness and old age). We don't let our cats outside, but one was literally a wild cat, and very quick to escape open doors..... containing her was almost impossible as he hunting drive was very strong for her. Unfortunately some other wild animal made her a meal.

Two of our cats were/are high needs, both diabetic that required needles twice a day. One made to 12 years, and the other is almost 13 now.

We feed our cats Acana Pacifica dry food.... mainly because our one cat had allergies and was diabetic, and the rest seemed to like it. It is a very high quality food and we stuck with it... although the price isn't for everyone.

I would say talk to your vet about food, and pick a good quality food.

For those that are cheap, and think that expensive food is a waste of money.... You would be surprised that dealing with a local pet shop can bring some advantages in buying high quality food... including a buy 9 bags, and the 10th is free. We deal with a local establishment, and they take our name and number for their files and track our purchases. I just recently got our 10th bag free. You just don't get those sorts of discounts at Costco or the grocery store.

For litter, we used to swear by Purina Max Scoup, but we are converting to Arm and Hammer Clump and Seal once our stock is gone.

Arm and hammer is finer, and it sticks less to the paws making less mess. One of our guys has bad rear legs due to the diabetes, and he has a hard time getting around. He is slowly getting better as we get the diabetes under control... but litter was sticking to his hind legs from the Purina stuff. The arm and hammer stuff works much better for him.

Anyways, you have my thoughts on the food... pictures are always good as well. Two of my cats were/are fairly large.... over 20 lbs (hit 23 lbs at one point). Perhaps overweight, but they were also just a large breed (both were litter mates). I guess at 12 (almost 13) years old, it is hard to change them though! LOL

Nice pictures!

High quality dry foods can provide that..... but I do agree with your statement on cats needing more protein, and less carbs... particularly when compared with dogs or even humans.

I don't know if these tips were meant to apply to you, or the person you were replying to, but I wanted to post some of them as food for thought.

Cats will generally drink enough water to survive and prosper.... but you need to entice them in some cases.... One of my cats used to pound back the water.... and the litter clumps showed it too... but that can be indicative of health problems like diabetes.

These tips from me don't apply to all cats. Some are like mini humans that accept things in a similar manner. Others, if you are having issues with litter or eating/drinking.... these sort of tips can help things along:

- Keep serval water dishes well stocked around the house, and impeccably clean. I suggest cleaning and refilling with fresh water daily, but that is household dependant.

- Strongly consider many separate locations for water.... several bowls around different areas of the house. Cats like their own space and territory, and this may avoid issues in a multi-cat house house (even if they get along in appearance)

- Keep food and water locations separate. Cats don't necessarily equate food and water coming from the same locations like humans going to the kitchen. (remember, in nature they hunt, and get water from two separate areas: what is clean for eating isn't necessarily clean for drinking in their way of viewing the world)

- Consider a flowing waterfall to encourage them to drink. Once again, keep impeccably clean

- Watch out for water that contains alot of salt (water softening systems). Although, remember that cats reportedly can survive (but not necessarily thrive) on true sea water as compared to humans who will die rather quickly... it is just about encouraging them to drink, and they may consider the salt not to be their flavour.

- Consider a system that keeps their water cool. Cool water, and flowing water represents freshness in both humans and the animal kingdom. There are bowl systems that have a freezer pad that keep the water cool. Buy two cooling pads that way you can swap them out at bowl refilling time.

- Try ice cubes in addition to a cooling pad as a special treat. One of my cats actually used to run when he heard the ice cube tray cracking cubes as I refilled his water. He used to meow with excitement as if he was being fed! He LOVED his cold water. It was actually quite an awesome experience as a pet owner!

-------

Overall, just remember that cats can't communicate like humans when they have issues. It is amongst the most challenging part of being a vet or even a pet owner. You are responsible for their care... but there are always signs that they show in their own way!

DKS, we found something we can agree on! LOL

Royal Canin is an awesome quality dry food. We used it for years prior to heading to Alcana Pacifica due to very specific food allergies in one of our cats... but I recommend both.

We keep the food and water completely separate for our cats. The food is portioned out in one of our bathrooms, and the water fountain is in the basement.

I agree, but in very small amounts it has been proven to be beneficial. Cats DO eat some grains... they lack the ability to sense/taste sweet foods though due to a mutation 1000's of years ago... so sweet fruits do not attract them as a source of food.

Their source of grains in the wild is actually through eating animals that eat grains (and are in the process of digesting).... i.e. a mouse or chipmunk. They can process it, and do eat it.

Cats do eat some grass when they are out, although the need is debatable (some say it is for actually throwing up later as part of the hairball or other digestion process). They can process some grains.

But their dietary needs are far different than say dogs, which actually need more grains and vegetables.

Dog food will not work as a substitute for cat food. It is far too different in composition to be effective for the long term.

It's SHIT FOOD, look at the major ingredients

Chicken meal (chicken skin)brown rice, corn meal, corn meal gluten

What's your choices then... because I don't think many would agree?

Royal Canin is what he said was the shit food. The Acana is great
»www.acana.com/products/r ··· ng=sa-en
Is what is currently in my cats bowl.
For wet, he's got Wellness Core.

Or maybe this is more to your liking

Wheat gluten, wheat flour, chicken by-product, brewers rice, porkfat, corn, powdered cellulose -

Oh wait, maybe this is why your cats are so fat

Chicken meal, brown rice, rice, corn, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, pea fiber, wheat gluten, rice hulls

You are going to sit there and tell me this QUALITY FOOD ??? It's all filler.

I was trying to figure out what he recommended in place of Royal Canin. I recommend both actually, and consider both a good quality food.

Acana Pacifica just worked well for my cat who is deceased and his allergies. We had a many month stock of it, so we are continuing with it for now.

I figure it likely that we will just go with it for the years ahead. It works, and the cats like it, and I consider the quality good.

A lot of people who complain about price of food should look at the 9 bag, 10th free models at local speciality pet food/supply stores... it may be more comparable that one thinks over the life of a cat, as compared to say Wiskas from the local Costco.

One of the best ways to slowly wean a cat off of cheap garbage food to quality food is a mixing process... I have done it before when we used other types of food.

I admit, I have never costed cheap brands vs expensive brands.... as we really consider that sort of thing as the cost of ownership of a cat... we would never consider skimping on them in terms of our perceived quality (no matter if it is real or not).

Our cats bring alot of value to my life, and I like them ALOT. I respect them and their natural abilities. I can see why the ancient Egyptians considered them as worthy of being gods. In a culture based on farming and the storage of grains.... they hunting abilities of rats and mice that threaten stores of grains would be amounts the most appreciated. I love their speed and athletic abilities, and discipline in hunting.

Almost the ultimate killing machine!

Good food and portioning goes a long way to a health of a cat too in terms of weight control and vet bills.

As we will eventually be down to one cat (one is almost 13, the other, likely 4), we will have to decide then how to proceed on the food. If things work fine though, I think we will just continue on.

It's a good idea to keep it separate. It is just the way they work.

The advice I gave can help for cats that have behavioural issues, but I recommend do what works for the household. Even just a separation from 6 inches to 5 feet can help things along in the way the cats view the world. It helps even more so in multi-cat households.

Having two separate water points in a 700 square foot condo isn't necessarily the best option if both cats get along... but then two cats in that small a space... hmmm. Maybe if they were littermates and never separated.... but without a bond, it just might lead to issues.

Remember that cats who are littermates, and then separated, or even mother/kitten bonds that are broken on weaning..... they may never return to being "friends" after a few days even. House cats seem to forget all about their young and littermates after being weaned away. Often the case it is like introducing a new cat to the household.

We used to do the fountain thing, but have gone back to the chilled bowl because it seemed to work better for our cats.

Food is available up and downstairs, but water is centralized right now due to lack of water supply downstairs (no basement bathroom... YET)

Both remaining cats are the best of friends... it was actually Paulie cat (now deceased), that was somewhat of a bully... possibly because he was in the poorest health, and had a limp.

He was a great cat, and I loved him... but sometimes he would get in the mood to beat up the other cats, who maybe were the top cats in the hierarchy by appearance. He was almost Walter White to me! LOL The hidden kingpin until the end! LOL

I watched him die unfortunately... we spent ALOT of money, time and effort on his care, and as I was taking him to the vet for either lifesaving aide, or the final needle, he let out his final meow (seriously) in his carrier beside me as I was driving. I suspected at the time it was just that, but I had to focus on the road. It was sad.

The vet assistants in Pembroke handled it like pros though. Although I am ok and used to physically and mentally handling death of just about anything (I have experience with animals and humans in all kinds of ways), I will say they went the extra mile. I didn't have to handle the body... i just brought in the carrier, and they offered to check him for me.

They then offered a paw print imprint which my wife really appreciates, and we chose to pay for cremation and a decent quality wooden box. The wife wanted to bury, but she actually likes the box so much that she is holding onto it for now.

Paulie used to love the ice cubes... went crazy with meows when he heard the tray coming out (or even the freezer opening) on water change. Never seen a cat get that excited about ice cold water! I swear he could almost get drunk on it!!! LOL

I still bring out the ice cubes in his memory for the other cats, although they don't respond happily it seems.... but who knows, they may love it just the same!

Easy now on the cats Elwood... espicially in your insults towards them.

Since you don't know me, I am going to state FYI that very few people have cats that are as well taken care of as ours.

Many foods contain some filler as part of a balanced diet. And some of that... a very small percentage.... contains those fillers... at the bottom of the list on the packaging.

But the food is considered well made by most experts (Royal Canin)... of which, I suspect you aren't one. It is scientifically created in terms of portions of materials which is difficult (but not impossible) if you do natural raw feeding.

Furthermore, I was asking what brand you prefer. What is your recommendation? You still haven't yet stated after being asked more than once? Or is this one of those typical posts you do.... perhaps Harper feeds his cat Stanley the same thing... Royal Canin? LOL

Yes all foods have filler, but the 2 or 3 I spot checked , filler, was the first ingredient. I'm sure cats really look forward to finding brewers rice, or Corn Gluten in the wild don't they?

I may not be an expert but I know enough about pet food to say that stuff is shit.

Read this : »www.petfoodratings.org/d ··· r-adult/

Sorry I didn't see that request, I feed my cat Before Grain.

»www.petfoodratings.org/d ··· e-grain/

Reads like the Acana ingredients.

I feed both my old cats Walmart's Actrium for Seniors. No corn gluten, no wheat, no soy. I used to feed them Costco's (Kirkland) Weight Control, but it's no longer available. At their last checkup, the vet commented on their glossy coats. Checking the ingredients of most cat foods (Iams, Purina, etc. and yes, Royal Canin), corn or wheat gluten and soy are usually listed 2nd or third. The cat who used to have digestive issues (occasional bloody stools) no longer has a problem so it may have been an allergy to corn or wheat. Another Walmart cat food advantage - you can now order online with free delivery.

I find since buying a water fountain, they drink a lot more water. One of the cats used to paw water out of the dish and lick it off her paws. She's the one who took to the fountain right away - seems to love licking the water from the fountain. I clean it once a week although I have to top it up daily, which indicates to me that they're drinking a lot.

just thought i'd mention they rank the Costco dog food quite high as well, especially considering its affordable price.

»www.petfoodratings.org/d ··· premium/

that is the food we purchased prior to upgrading to the Nature's Domain, which is also well reviewed.

Your killing me... The statement about cats not eating rice or corn in the wild... I have owned everything from barn cats to dedicated indoor cats.

When a cat kills a mouse, or a rat, or a bird or even a chimpmunk... And eats the animal... What do you think is inside the stomach contents of one of those animals? Small amounts of grains... From corn to products similar to rice in terms of grain. While rice isn't grown near here, corn and wheat grains are. And cats are prospering on almost every continent on the planet.

Some grains and perhaps corn will be barely digested by the dead animal, or in various states of processing. The cat doesn't pick around the grains or corn. It all get eaten.

Small amounts of grains and corn are in high quality food for that reason... To keep things as natural as possible, while, producing a long lasting product.

Very small amounts of grains and corn are added into the meat protein to ensure the best balance possible for as natural an experience as possible.

You are exactly right about the allergies.... Most cats don't have issues with some small amounts of grain, but my one cat had special needs in that department.

The allergies caused him to be constantly itchy, and he did obsessively lick his belly and side... However a change of food got that under control (after some trial and error). He passed on a little while ago, but we still continue on with the food because the other cats like it (though we could easily switch)

Cats just don't always respond well to change... And sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone.

Small amounts yes, but not when it's the 2nd or 3rd ingredient (and ingridents are listed in order of quanity in the product).

Corn Gluten really? »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co ··· ten_meal
I'm sure mice and rats have plenty of that in them too.

No it's not...

Ingredients
Chicken meal, brown rice, corn, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, pea fiber, grain distillers dried yeast, dried beet pulp, vegetable oil, fish oil, calcium sulfate, potassium chloride, salt, DL-methionine, hydrolyzed yeast, choline chloride, taurine, sodium tripolyphosphate, vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid], Trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, copper proteinate] , marigold extract, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

Crude Protein (% min.) 32.0
Crude Fat (% min.) 13.0
Crude Fibre (% max.) 5.8
Moisture (% max.) 8.0
Taurine (% min.) 0.21
Lutein (mg/kg min.) 5.0
Vitamin C (mg/kg min.) 200.0
Vitamin E (mg/kg) 500.0
Energy (kcal/cup) 339.0
Metabolizable Energy (calculated) (kcal/kg) 3,669.0

It's certainly not Ol' Roy or anything and has an okay level of protein and fat but has the typical wheat fillers.