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Cburg
join:2014-12-07

Cburg

Member

[Speed/Latency] Is Speed Test "UpLoad Speed" a measure of line quality

Dear Forum,
Verizon advertises: .5 to 1 Mbps Download; 384 Kbps Upload
With SpeedTest, I get: ~0.9down, .1 up
I have been on numerous chat sessions with Verizon reps, and have performed all suggested troubleshooting steps, including buying a new router. The one that they sent was even worse, so I found an ActionTec GT701D that worked pretty good for a while, but is not even helping now. Verizon does not suggest any fixes, and certainly will not admit that it might be their line. They point to the download speed as evidence that the line is OK. Is this the case, or can the upload speed still be their problem?
Thanks!
Mike

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

1 recommendation

tschmidt

MVM

Welcome to BBR.

Using Internet speed test is a quick way to check performance but is not that useful as a troubleshooting tool because any impairment between you and the remote site will affect the result. So even if your DSL service is working fine may get poor performance. Need to separate out the various components to help determine root cause.

It is more common to have problems with download rather then upload. Make sure nothing on your computer or other computers on the LAN are uploading when running speed test. If you have multiple computers turn off all but one and run the test on each one.

1) Log into your modem and view the stats page. What you are looking for is modem sync speed, margin and attenuation.

2) If those are good move on to step 3. If not temporally connect modem to the phone company NID test disconnect. This disconnects inside wiring/equipment eliminating them as a potential cause of the problem. If stats are better something within your residence is degrading performance.

DSL is adaptive so for best results go back and forth between the normal location and the NID a couple of times.

3) If DSL stats look good the good news your DSL line is working as advertised, need to look elsewhere for the problem. Assuming you are using Windows open the command prompt and run tracert to DSLreports.com (this site).

Latency should gradually increase with hop count and distance. Sudden unexplained increase typically means congestion at that or the previous hop. If you have trouble figuring out the result post it.

/tom
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

1 recommendation

Cburg

Member

Thanks Tom!
It's working great today. I'll check it out the next time it acts up. I have a very basic setup for troubleshooting. Nothing else connected, and a direct connection to the modem, computer, and wall. Seeing that it is so intermittant and variable makes me think all the more that it is the Verizon service.
Mike
Cburg

Cburg

Member

Hi Tom!

It is going slow now. The modem stats are:

DSL Status
VPI: 0
VCI: 35
DSL Mode Setting: MMODE
DSL Negotiated Mode: G.DMT
Connection Status: Showtime
Speed (down/up): 1184/448 kbps
ATM QoS class: UBR
Near End CRC Errors : 0/0
Far End CRC Errors : 0/0
Near End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End CRC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Near End RS FEC : 0/0
Far End RS FEC : 0/0
Near End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Far End FEC(Within last 30 mins) : 0/0
Discarded Packets(Within last 30 mins): 0
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 0/31
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream): 125/13

Does this look good?

Thanks!
Mike


tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

tschmidt

MVM

Not sure exactly what the sync rate should be for 1meg/384kbps service but sync rate looks OK. Unfortunately modem is not reporting download margin or attenuation, but the fact there are no errors indicates DSL itself is stable. 13dB upstream attenuation indicates you are fairly close to the CO so stable 1Mbps should not be a problem.

4AM is kind of early to be suffering from congestion but at this point that is my best guess.

Next step try doing a traceroute. Here is mine to give you some idea as to what it should look like. Your first hop will probably be your home router so will have negligible latency. The next router is the ISP edge router. You have slower DSL speed than me so latency may be a little higher but still should be in the low/mid teens. If it is much higher indicates backhaul congestion within your ISP. Backhaul is the path from the DSLAM that drives your line through the internal ATM network to the edge ISP edge router. The rest of the hops indicate routers within your ISP and then ones on the Internet itself.

As I posted before a sudden increase typically indicated problems with that hop or the previous one.

 
Tracing route to dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.2.1
  2    27 ms    28 ms    28 ms  xx.milford1-1.nh.g4.net [66.211.144.97]
  3    28 ms    28 ms    28 ms  gi-3-1.nashua1-1.nh.G4.net [216.177.5.178]
  4    47 ms    31 ms    32 ms  ge-24-v108.merrimack3-1.nh.G4.net [216.177.5.15]
  5    30 ms    29 ms    29 ms  gi-21-v358.manchester3-1.nh.G4.net [216.177.30.53]
  6    29 ms    29 ms    29 ms  ge-0-0-3.manchester1-9.nh.G4.net [216.177.5.45]
  7    31 ms    30 ms    30 ms  gi3-12.mag01.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [38.88.20.93]
  8    31 ms    30 ms    30 ms  te0-4-0-0.ccr22.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.5.43.53]
  9    54 ms    53 ms    54 ms  be2138.ccr42.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.4.201]
 10    55 ms    55 ms    71 ms  be2003.ccr21.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.2.22]
 11    54 ms    54 ms    53 ms  be2409.rcr11.b002281-5.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com[154.54.29.66]
 12    55 ms    54 ms    54 ms  cogent-chi.liquidweb.com [38.104.103.166]
 13    62 ms    62 ms    62 ms  lw-dc3-core2-te8-16.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.17.229]
 14    62 ms    62 ms    62 ms  lw-dc3-dist16-po6.rtr.liquidweb.com [69.167.12895]
 15    62 ms    62 ms    62 ms  www.dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
 
Trace complete.
 

Good Hunting
/tom
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

Cburg

Member

Hi Tom!
I ran the program from this website: »ping.eu/traceroute/
Here are the results:

Online service Traceroute
Traceroute %u2013 Traces the route of packets to destination host from our server
IP address or host name:

traceroute to 108.44.88.40 (108.44.88.40), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 static.121.168.4.46.clients.your-server.de 46.4.168.121 de 3.833 ms 3.839 ms 3.896 ms
2 hos-tr1.juniper1.rz13.hetzner.de 213.239.224.1 de 0.172 ms 0.184 ms 0.174 ms
3 core21.hetzner.de 213.239.245.81 de 0.227 ms
core22.hetzner.de 213.239.245.121 de 0.219 ms 0.230 ms
4 core4.hetzner.de 213.239.245.18 de 4.868 ms 4.869 ms 4.861 ms
5 juniper4.ffm.hetzner.de 213.239.245.1 de 4.849 ms 4.887 ms 4.838 ms
6 ce-0-4-0-0.r03.frnkge03.de.bb.gin.ntt.net 213.198.72.229 de 5.335 ms 5.493 ms 5.485 ms
7 ae-6.r20.frnkge04.de.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.6.248 us 21.661 ms 5.313 ms
ae-1.r21.frnkge03.de.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.6.216 us 18.929 ms
8 ae-3.r23.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.3.180 us 121.591 ms 95.013 ms
ae-7.r20.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.3.20 us 91.470 ms
9 ae-1.r06.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.4.149 us 98.335 ms
ae-1.r06.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.7.25 us 91.050 ms
ae-1.r06.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.4.149 us 98.335 ms
10 0.xe-11-3-0.BR3.NYC4.ALTER.NET 204.255.168.65 us 94.599 ms
ae-1.verizonbusiness.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.8.38 us 104.787 ms
ae-0.verizonbusiness.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net 129.250.8.34 us 113.957 ms
11 G13-0-0.RONKVA-LCR-02.verizon-gni.net 130.81.199.49 us 127.911 ms
G12-0-0.RONKVA-LCR-02.verizon-gni.net 130.81.151.155 us 111.715 ms 116.050 ms
12 G4-1-2402.RONKVA-RONKVALK-ERXG04.verizon-gni.net 130.81.194.235 us 116.494 ms 111.778 ms 116.875 ms
13 * * *
14 * * *
15 * * *
No reply for 3 hops. Assuming we reached firewall.

My virus software firewall was turned off.

Thanks!
Mike

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH

tschmidt

MVM

It is more informative if you originate the traceroute from you PC rather then doing one toward the PC.

In my router there were a bunch of setting I needed to do to make the router pingable.

/tom

pjsutton
join:2013-06-25
Kempton, PA

pjsutton to Cburg

Member

to Cburg
If you are on a PC and not Mac, go to Start, search for "cmd" to open a command prompt, then type "tracert dslreports.com" and press enter.
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

Cburg

Member

Thanks man!
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600]
(c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Mike>tracert dslreports.com

Tracing route to dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1
Cburg

Cburg to pjsutton

Member

to pjsutton
Thanks man!

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600]
(c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Mike>tracert dslreports.com

Tracing route to dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1

pjsutton
join:2013-06-25
Kempton, PA

pjsutton to Cburg

Member

to Cburg
It's hard to figure out how to copy/paste from there. You have to right click and click "mark" then highlight what you want to copy. Then CTRL+C to copy.
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

Cburg

Member

Can't get it to copy!

pjsutton
join:2013-06-25
Kempton, PA

pjsutton

Member

Take a screen shot and post as a picture:

1. Press the "print screen" key on your keyboard
2. Open up Paint, go to edit/paste
3. Crop the picture just to show the cmd prompt
4. Save and upload here as a picture...
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

Cburg

Member

It's on the clipboard, but it won't paste here!

pjsutton
join:2013-06-25
Kempton, PA

pjsutton to Cburg

Member

to Cburg
Right, you have to make it into an image file. Follow the other steps that I posted!

You have to upload it as an attachment.
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

1 edit

Cburg

Member

It won't upload. Do you have email that I can send it to? (upload speed is only .06mbps)

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

tschmidt to Cburg

MVM

to Cburg
Click for full size
Windows CLI Copy/Paste
Need to copy the info from the command line and paste it it into this forum. At an upload speed of 60kbps you don't want to try to upload an image.

Once the tracert is complete click on the icon in the upper left and press Mark mark the entire result and then press Copy. You can then paste that into the forum. I assuming from your previous post that is what you did.

The next step is important

DSLreports uses HTML tags to make pretty posts. Each tag is delimited by a leading and trailing caret. Because tracert uses the same character it can confuse the DSLreports formatting. Limit paste to what I did here: "Tracing route ... Trace complete" and it will look OK. If you include the next line Typically the "C" prompt it has the right hand caret so the forum thinks you are entering a HTML tag (which it does not understand) rather then the entire traceroute.

Tracing route to dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 28 ms 28 ms 28 ms xx.milford1-1.nh.g4.net [66.211.144.97]
3 28 ms 28 ms 28 ms gi-3-1.nashua1-1.nh.G4.net [216.177.5.178]
4 30 ms 29 ms 29 ms ge-24-v108.merrimack3-1.nh.G4.net [216.177.5.150
]
5 30 ms 29 ms 29 ms gi-21-v358.manchester3-1.nh.G4.net [216.177.30.1
53]
6 29 ms 28 ms 28 ms ge-0-0-3.manchester1-9.nh.G4.net [216.177.5.45]

7 31 ms 30 ms 30 ms gi3-12.mag01.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [38.88.209
.93]
8 31 ms 30 ms 30 ms te0-4-0-0.ccr22.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
.43.53]
9 54 ms 53 ms 53 ms be2138.ccr42.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.43
.201]
10 54 ms 74 ms 53 ms be2003.ccr21.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.29
.22]
11 54 ms 54 ms 53 ms be2409.rcr11.b002281-5.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com
[154.54.29.66]
12 55 ms 55 ms 55 ms cogent-chi.liquidweb.com [38.104.103.166]
13 62 ms 61 ms 61 ms lw-dc3-core2-te8-16.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.15
7.229]
14 62 ms 61 ms 62 ms lw-dc3-dist16-po6.rtr.liquidweb.com [69.167.128.
95]
15 62 ms 62 ms 62 ms www.dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]

Trace complete.

/tom
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

Cburg

Member

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600]
(c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Mike>tracert dslreports.com

Tracing route to dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1
Cburg

Cburg

Member

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600]
(c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Mike>tracert dslreports.com

Tracing route to dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1
Cburg

1 edit

Cburg

Member

<1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  dslmodem.domain [192.168.0.1]
  2  1010 ms  1087 ms  1141 ms  10.30.13.1
  3  1468 ms  1454 ms  1541 ms  G2-0-2-2204.RONKVA-LCR-02.verizon-gni.net [130.8
1.195.216]
  4  1650 ms  1732 ms  1646 ms  xe-1-0-2-0.RES-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.1
99.48]
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11  1039 ms  1023 ms  1086 ms  0.ae2.XL4.CHI13.ALTER.NET [140.222.225.191]
 12  1212 ms  1270 ms  1318 ms  TenGigE0-7-0-9.GW5.CHI13.ALTER.NET [152.63.70.17
]
 13  1430 ms  1384 ms  1489 ms  giglinx-gw.customer.alter.net [152.179.92.62]
 14  1505 ms  1056 ms   897 ms  lw-dc3-core2-vlan66.rtr.liquidweb.com [209.59.15
7.226]
 15   916 ms   934 ms  1026 ms  lw-dc3-dist15-po6.rtr.liquidweb.com [69.167.128.
243]
 16  1142 ms  1210 ms  1243 ms  www.dslreports.com [64.91.255.98]
 
Trace complete.
 
C:\Users\Mike>
 

pjsutton
join:2013-06-25
Kempton, PA

pjsutton to Cburg

Member

to Cburg
Finally got it! Yikes, looks like a congestion issue. Those 1000+ ms pings in line 2 should be somewhere around 20-40 ms or so...

Post on the direct forum here and mention you are having congestion issues.
Cburg
join:2014-12-07

Cburg

Member

I also found that if I restart either my computer or the modem (each seperately), the upload speed goes much higher. When I do a second speed test, however, it is back below .1mbps. It seems strange that it would act the same with either computer or modem.
Cburg

Cburg

Member

Does congestion mean too many users on the line? A Verizon problem?
Thanks!
Mike

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

1 recommendation

tschmidt to Cburg

MVM

to Cburg
As pjsutton See Profile posted the extremely high latency at hop 2 is indicative of backhaul congestion (the path from the DSLAM to the ISP edge router is hidden because it is over ATM.
said by Cburg:

It seems strange that it would act the same with either computer or modem.

If it was only your computer then my inclination is your PC is infected and doing a lot of upload. The fact rebooting the modem makes that a little less likely but does not rule it out.

At this point I'd have a friend come over and see if they have the same result, to rule out a compromised computer.

If you are technical may want to download wireshark and actually look at all the traffic being carried by the LAN. But looking at low level traces can be daunting.
»www.wireshark.org/

/tom

Tyler
join:2010-06-04
North East, PA

Tyler

Member

I agree with tschmidt...when you say it works fine the first time, but goes slow after that...it almost sounds like maybe your computer is infected with something, or maybe its doing windows updates.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

1 recommendation

tschmidt

MVM

said by Tyler:

windows updates.

Yea forgot about automatic updates. Not limited to Windows, lots of other SW packages want to call home to the mother-ship.

/tom