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en103
join:2011-05-02

en103

Member

As always....

As with the company's 45 Mbps tier, your copper line quality and length determines whether you'll be able to get this faster offering.

How many can get this tier ? Less than those that can get the 45Mbps tier.
46436203 (banned)
join:2013-01-03

46436203 (banned)

Member

I'm sure plenty can. I am 1,000 ft from a VRAD.

When I last tried out U-verse my lines sync'd up to 65 Mbps down / 12 Mbps up and with AT&T using pair bonding that would allow for a theoretical speed tier of 120 / 20 Mbps or so.

I just wish AT&T would start offering speed tiers that allow us to utilize the maximum capacity our lines can sync at because even with this new speed tier of 75/8 Mbps it's still only half the speed I could potentially get.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

2 recommendations

mixdup

Member

said by 46436203:

I'm sure plenty can. I am

There's more to it than just how fast your copper loop syncs. There's a finite amount of bandwidth to the VRAD that must be shared among all customers served from it.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

VRADs are fiber-fed. AT&T has gigabit in some places. Bandwidth going into the VRAD isn't going to be the issue.
txfeinbergs
join:2009-03-10
Allen, TX

txfeinbergs to mixdup

Member

to mixdup
I can only get 18 Mbps and I live in a newer neighborhood. AT&T is all marketing fluff. My TWC connection is at 100 down, 5 up.
etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
united state

etaadmin

Member

said by txfeinbergs:

I can only get 18 Mbps and I live in a newer neighborhood. AT&T is all marketing fluff. My TWC connection is at 100 down, 5 up.

and with this att 'awesome announcement' probably it will go up to 300/20.
etaadmin

1 edit

etaadmin to 46436203

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to 46436203
said by 46436203:

I'm sure plenty can. I am

Not everybody is 1Kft from a vrad, i've seen some subs at 5Kft even 6Kft.

Edit: there is one site that discloses this information »adslm.dohrenburg.net/too ··· ults.php... there is a lot of 'unknown' distance but you get the idea.

neill6705
join:2014-08-09

neill6705 to en103

Member

to en103
At least AT&T does bonded DSL. I've been begging Centurylink to give me 40/2 (I've got 20/1 on a single pair) on my residential account. They'll give it to me, but I need a business account and it will cost me $155 a month. F*ck that.
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

ISurfTooMuch to 46436203

Member

to 46436203
I don't think you'd get 120/20, since they set aside some amount for TV, even if you don't sub to it.

What I'd like to see happen is for these new tiers to push down the cost of the older ones. Cable is eating AT&T's lunch in terms of HSI subs, but it seems like all AT&T is doing when they launch a new tier is pricing it higher than the existing ones, despite cable increasing speed while also either slightly lowering the prices of the older slower tiers or giving subs on their existing tiers speed bumps.

rolande
Certifiable
MVM,
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
ARRIS BGW210-700
Cisco Meraki MR42

rolande to en103

MVM,

to en103
said by en103:

How many can get this tier ? Less than those that can get the 45Mbps tier.

Maybe. Maybe Not. They are using pair-bonding with Vectoring to achieve the higher speed. The vectoring feature will actually increase the number of people who could quality for 45Mbps or any of the lower speed tiers, as well. They are also supposed to introduce Phantom-mode for virtual pair-bonding to add a 3rd virtual pair. All of those features together will open up many more higher speed options for customers who were previously limited by distance.



KennyWest
@98.28.97.x

KennyWest to 46436203

Anon

to 46436203
With 1,000ft from the VARD, yes you will be able to get this. I am 1,000 feet from the VARD and can get 300/300 if I wanted it.

atcotr
@65.60.163.x

1 recommendation

atcotr to iansltx

Anon

to iansltx
This is a question of economics not technology. AT&T's anti-CAPEX approach leads to lower cost but also absurd situations such as running out of ports to hook up a new customer. I wonder how much cheaper FTTN is when you factor in all of truck rolls to deal with modems losing connection. AT&T rather low node density means lines are too long to support speeds competitive with cable.

KennyWest
@98.28.97.x

KennyWest to etaadmin

Anon

to etaadmin
TWC is in no hurry in upgrading. Their pending merger/buy out right now. They're not sinking any money into their sinking ship. And weren't even putting any money into the network before the buyout/merger announcement. TWC needs to give up.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103 to atcotr

Member

to atcotr
I agree. Its relatively quick to deploy (vs. FTTH), but what is the cost of running FTTN and maintaining the last mile.
Eventually, 'if' companies had enough bandwidth, they'd be able to put up cellular based fixed wireless at those VRADs and have ~20x the density of existing cellular in suburban areas.
en103

en103 to txfeinbergs

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to txfeinbergs
According to Google Maps, I'm at 1238' (walking). Its roughly that from when AT&T dug up the street due to a power short and melted wires. The large bundle is ~2 houses away, and goes straight back to the vrad.
I'm happy enough on TWC 100/10 package.

ev
@74.140.91.x

ev to KennyWest

Anon

to KennyWest
Yeah but they've been busy upgrading their Ohio plants to 8x4 channel DOCSIS so maybe maybe not...?
etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
united state

etaadmin to rolande

Member

to rolande
LOL. I remember 14 years ago looking pretty ADSL2+ graphs promising higher speeds the ADSL2+ graphs were replaced by VDSL/VDSL2 graphs now I see those vector and phantom mode graphs promising the same thing.

In reality the ADSL2+ distance estimates never materialized, VDSL/VDSL2 is even worse and I suppose vectoring and phantom mode will become nonexistent mode.

I believe it when I see it and when at&t has the capability of deploying the technology to everybody in their footprint.
etaadmin

etaadmin to ev

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to ev
Yep, they are upgrading (adding bonding channels) in a lot of markets... I wonder why is that? If they are not going to use the bonding channels why the hurry in adding them?
etaadmin

etaadmin to KennyWest

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to KennyWest
said by KennyWest :

With 1,000ft from the VARD, yes you will be able to get this. I am 1,000 feet from the VARD and can get 300/300 if I wanted it.

What happens when somebody wants the 300/300 and he/she is too far and can only get 3/1?

See the problem?

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven to rolande

Member

to rolande
How.. exactly.. do you create a 3rd virtual pair of wires?
asysadmin
join:2013-02-24
North Richland Hills, TX

asysadmin to txfeinbergs

Member

to txfeinbergs
Lucky! My other option is Charter (max offering is 60/10), and the neighbors complain about it cutting out every other day.
asysadmin

asysadmin to SimbaSeven

Member

to SimbaSeven
No idea. The image only shows two pairs, maybe it's an error?
The line into my house has three pairs; not sure if its common though.
asysadmin

asysadmin to mixdup

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to mixdup
As @iansltx said, they already have fibre to the VRAD. They already have conduit run, so they don't even have to dig to upgrade (although 1G and 40G use the same type of fibre in most cases).

They have been doing plenty of "upgrading" in my area, but still refuse to upgrade my line. I have a 60mbps sync rate at ~1800 feet, but they keep me at 18/2. And I could get pair bonding too, but "nope we don't do that anymore".
asysadmin

1 edit

asysadmin to en103

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to en103
said by en103:

I agree. Its relatively quick to deploy (vs. FTTH), but what is the cost of running FTTN and maintaining the last mile.
Eventually, 'if' companies had enough bandwidth, they'd be able to put up cellular based fixed wireless at those VRADs and have ~20x the density of existing cellular in suburban areas.

Verizon already does that in Flower Mound,TX in their FiOS territory (EDIT: They use the nodes for extending cellular coverage, not for serving homes, obviously). Driving around you can see at least one nodule per street on the telephone poles.

rolande
Certifiable
MVM,
join:2002-05-24
Dallas, TX
ARRIS BGW210-700
Cisco Meraki MR42

rolande to SimbaSeven

MVM,

to SimbaSeven
said by SimbaSeven:

How.. exactly.. do you create a 3rd virtual pair of wires?

DSL signaling is a complicated frequency multiplexed technology. The phantom "pair of wires" is just an additional sub-carrier signal that rides on the 2 physical pairs and piggybacks on the primary VDSL carrier signal.
rolande

rolande to etaadmin

MVM,

to etaadmin
They can deliver a 25Mbps VDSL profile out to nearly 6000 feet on a pair bonded connection. Vectoring and phantom mode on the newer N version VRAD line cards should bump that up to qualify for the 32Mbps profile minimally and possibly even qualify for the 55Mbps profile. So maybe the distances and speeds didn't materialize to the full extent that the academic specifications claimed but they do exist. AT&T just stopped investing in that technology in favor of VDSL which brings an additional set of technical challenges at distance.

The graph above is definitely academic and the absolute best case scenario and not necessarily real world. I expect they will be able to achieve around 75% of those top end numbers for the broadest and most stable access for customers given the variability of distance and copper quality across their footprint. The hope is that while these enhancements show up in existing copper areas not targeted for early FTTP retro-fits, that AT&T will simultaneously be making progress on FTTP builds to render these technical distance challenges essentially obsolete as we have gotten used to over the past 15+ years. Then the baseline speeds jump an entire order+ of magnitude and the distance increases into the 5-10 mile range without a repeater. Then the real shackles of distance limitation will just crumble and fall away. Then it will simply be a matter of ROI vs. up front implementation costs to put the fiber in the ground. Customers out in the boonies will still face the same availability problem. But, the many cities and neighborhoods in the broadband ghettoes of today will finally be brought out of the dark ages.
etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
united state

etaadmin to SimbaSeven

Member

to SimbaSeven
said by SimbaSeven:

How.. exactly.. do you create a 3rd virtual pair of wires?

Does it matter? VDSL can't even get two pairs to work 'right' and they want to DSP a virtual pair... reminds me of the ISDN days 2B+D channels.

Enough of magic tricks... just deploy the freaking fiber.

ilikeme
Premium Member
join:2002-08-27
Stafford, TX

ilikeme to asysadmin

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Those are not for FIOS. Those are probably for utility metering. Maybe cellular also.
asysadmin
join:2013-02-24
North Richland Hills, TX

asysadmin

Member

They are cell nodes that use Verizon's FiOS backbone (which is what I was talking about).

Rereading the comment I replied to I see that he means using the cellular for home connections (did't see that at first).
asysadmin

asysadmin to etaadmin

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to etaadmin
said by etaadmin:

said by SimbaSeven:

How.. exactly.. do you create a 3rd virtual pair of wires?

Enough of magic tricks... just deploy the freaking fiber.

Unfortunately things like G.Fast will make the higher ups keep the telephone wire game going like a true zombie.

Engineer: We made the cable sync at 1G, but it only goes to 200feet before it craps out due to interference. This is a neat proof of concept, but you should use fibre.

Shareholder: What?! 1G over a telephone line?! Deploy it. Forget fibre.

Obviously the cost to roll fibre to every U-Verse customer is extremely high, but if ATT did what Google did with Fibrehoods they could gauge interest and find the areas that actually want it (i.e. areas that they would get a return on within a year or two). Too much effort though, and who really needs fast internet, right? Right?!