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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor

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one part of revenge and one part of vigilante justice

I guess this shouldn't come as a big surprise...
quote:
NEW YORK (AP) — An armed man walked up to two New York Police Department officers sitting inside a patrol car and opened fire Saturday afternoon, killing one and critically injuring a second before running into a nearby subway station and committing suicide, police said.
»news.yahoo.com/police-2- ··· 732.html

Krisnatharok
PC Builder, Gamer
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join:2009-02-11
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Krisnatharok

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Your title makes no sense, and ascribes motives to the shooter when his motives are unknown.
Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL

Zoder

Member

The second officer has now died.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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Maybe it doesn't make any sense to you, but as far I concern, I'm willing to bet a rather large sum of money on the shooter's motive.

Krisnatharok
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Krisnatharok

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said by aurgathor:

Maybe it doesn't make any sense to you, but as far I concern, I'm willing to bet a rather large sum of money on the shooter's motive.

I didn't say it didn't make sense--anyone jumping to conclusions about why he did what he did are doing it for political and purposes and furthering their own agenda or pet cause. Police officers have been killed by "senseless" violence for decades, long before perceived brutality and racism became the favorite pet causes of media.

You have no way of knowing if this individual had a vendetta against the police, and if so, why.
DarkSithPro (banned)
join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ

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said by aurgathor:

Maybe it doesn't make any sense to you, but as far I concern, I'm willing to bet a rather large sum of money on the shooter's motive.

Regardless of his motive there is no way to rationally justify what he did. This is no different to what the Taliban did to the kids in Pakistan. It's pure evil, driven by Demons. Killing innocent people to "justify" a motive is madness...

Krisnatharok
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Your title is also inaccurate, even if the individual had it out for cops based on recent events.

Revenge = Usually taking vengeance involves going after the guilty party. I don't see this happening to the cops who arrested the guy in NYC or the officer who shot the suspect in Ferguson.

Vigilante Justice = Again, going after someone the law is unwilling or unable to hold account. By not going after the guilty party, you can't accurately call this vigilante justice.

This murder was a pure crime of opportunity based on an unknown motive held by the killer. Maybe these or other officers gave him a speeding ticket, or evicted his family, or killed his brother, or sent his father to prison for life, or did a stop-and-frisk on him at some point. But we shouldn't honor his motives by calling them either "revenge" or vigilantism.

It would be like killing random Jews or Muslims because of something happening halfway around the world. That's not revenge or vigilantism, that's a hate crime. To me, it seems he shot these cops because a beef he has with law enforcement in general, which is just simply murder, and at least he saved us the money it would take to prosecute and imprison him.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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said by Krisnatharok:

Police officers have been killed by "senseless" violence for decades,

That usually happens during various encounters initiated by the police. Walking up to the police and shooting them with no immediately obvious reason is much more rare, though not unheard of.

You have no way of knowing if this individual had a vendetta against the police, and if so, why.

Since he shot two of them without any obvious reason, I think that pretty much proves that he had a vendetta against a police. The "why" is of course a bit more speculative, but I'm willing to bet that being upset by the well publicized police shootings of late had something to do with that.

Krisnatharok
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Krisnatharok

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said by aurgathor:

Since he ... without any obvious reason, I think that pretty much proves

That's horrible reasoning, and you're simply believing what you want in absence of conclusive evidence or even an indication.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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said by Krisnatharok:

Revenge = Usually taking vengeance involves going after the guilty party. I don't see this happening to the cops who arrested the guy in NYC or the officer who shot the suspect in Ferguson.

Vigilante Justice = Again, going after someone the law is unwilling or unable to hold account. By not going after the guilty party, you can't accurately call this vigilante justice.

Please read and try to understand transference

This murder was a pure crime of opportunity based on an unknown motive held by the killer.


You gotta be kidding!! Opportunistic crimes are usually stealing, robbery, embezzlement, etc.

Maybe these or other officers gave him a speeding ticket, or evicted his family, or killed his brother, or sent his father to prison for life, or did a stop-and-frisk on him at some point. But we shouldn't honor his motives by calling them either "revenge" or vigilantism.

Again, you gotta be kidding. An attack after anything you listed would be revenge.

In any case, we'll probably know in a few days if he had anything personal with the killed cops.
DarkSithPro (banned)
join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ

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n/m.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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One last time, opening fire on them without any provocation or any immediate action on the police's part is a proof that he had a vendetta against police. If you can't, or unwilling to understand this, fine. I'm done with you.
DarkSithPro (banned)
join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ

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DarkSithPro (banned)

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said by aurgathor:

One last time, opening fire on them without any provocation or any immediate action on the police's part is a proof that he had a vendetta against police. If you can't, or unwilling to understand this, fine. I'm done with you.

To me it's more of mental instability. He committed suicide, right? Mentally unstable person means there is no rational to his actions.

Krisnatharok
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Maybe you also have insider knowledge on why Eric Frein decided to kill a PA police officer in a sniper attack. Since you're the expert on police vendettas and all.
DarkSithPro (banned)
join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ

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PX Eliezer1
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said by aurgathor:

In any case, we'll probably know in a few days if he had anything personal with the killed cops.

He had nothing personal with the officers he ambushed in cold blood.

He drove up from Baltimore where earlier today he may have shot his girlfriend.

He was a gang member with a long criminal record. It's likely that he hated police from way back.

beerbum
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said by aurgathor:

Maybe it doesn't make any sense to you, but as far I concern, I'm willing to bet a rather large sum of money on the shooter's motive.

ya think?

»nypost.com/2014/12/20/2- ··· rooklyn/

"I'm Putting Wings on Pigs Today"

"They Take 1 Of Ours...Let's Take 2 of Theirs"

"#ShootThePolice #RIPErivGardner #RIPMikeBrown"

"This May Be My Final Post"

"I'm Putting Pigs In A Blanket"


That is what the shooter posted on his Instagram page 3 hrs before murdering two cops.

Hope the Rev Al and the rest of the MSM are happy now. THEY drove the narrative, THEY have harped on this for week upon week upon week. THEY finally got the result THEY have been hoping for for months now.

Krisnatharok
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Krisnatharok

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Agreed, and thanks for posting the additional information.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

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What disturbs me the most is any one who is supportive in the least of some one who murdered 2 people. Brown was a strong arm robber thug who attacked a cop and was shot commuting his second crime (assault) of the day. A 12 year old kid was killed after his waving around of a model 1911 target replica bb gun resulted in a 911 call in which the called said "some guy (if i recall correctly) is waving around a gun in the -"park" (used - " as i can not off hand remember the name of the park)" The police arive on the seen (driver pulled up to close for comfort and gave his partner to little time to react) The 12 year old approached the cops and reached for what at the time they believed to be a real gun and the 12 year old was shot as a result.

Of these 2 cases the only one that is sad is the 12 year old. Who was quite possibly put up to this by some punk who wanted to fan the riot flames and keep a bs news story going.

In this case 2 people were murdered by some one who later committed suicide this is called murder suicide.
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
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join:2000-01-13

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Without more information I have no way of knowing if those officers truly wronged the shooter, otherwise somebody they knew, and wouldn't be vigilante justice.

Striking out at random officers doesn't make this better by any means.

If this bastard was shot dead I would totally understand.
»news.yahoo.com/oklahoma- ··· 187.html
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

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Yep sharpton and friends are coming close to the race war and criminal vs cops war they so desire.
DarkSithPro (banned)
join:2005-02-12
Tempe, AZ

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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

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I guess that pretty much clears up any lingering doubts about the shooter's motives.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

Although speculating on the shooter's motives was apparently frowned on, it seems perfectly ok in this thread to speculate on Al Sharpton's motives. Why is that?
DarkSithPro (banned)
join:2005-02-12
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TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

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»gawker.com/two-cops-kill ··· 73627857

Gawker has pics of the two officers that were assassinated.

The police chief is explicitly blaming the mayor. I think he should shut the fuck up, learn his place as a servant, and concentrate on improving his police force rather than running a PR campaign in the press which they will lose anyway. Nobody trusts a cop in NYC now, it doesn't mean the people condone senseless murder like this. Blaming city officials for a climate the police are responsible for is not going to improve their image.

One thing is for sure, things aren't looking bright right now.

Shooter:
[att=2]

This gem of a human being also shot his girlfriend in the stomach earlier in the day, apparently. Also has a lot of arrests involving shootings.

UPDATE - 8:50 p.m.: The Patrolmen's Benevolent Association of the City of New York, the NYPD's largest labor union, has reportedly issued a memo saying Mayor de Blasio's "hands are literally dripping with our blood" and the NYPD has "become a 'wartime' police department," and refusing to make arrests or issue summonses "unless absolutely necessary." The full message:
quote:
Starting IMMEDIATELY- At least two units are to respond to EVERY call, no matter the condition or severity, no matter what type of job is pending, or what the opinion of the patrol supervisor happens to be. IN ADDITION: Absolutely NO enforcement action in the form of arrests and or summonses is to be taken unless absolutely necessary and an individual MUST be placed under arrest. These are precautions that were taken in the 1970's when Police Officers were ambushed and executed on a regular basis. The mayors hands are literally dripping with our blood because of his words actions and policies and we have, for the first time in a number of years, become a "wartime" police department. We will act accordingly.

Krisnatharok
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Krisnatharok

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And people are celebrating: »dailycaller.com/2014/12/ ··· murders/

TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

TigerLord

Absolutely disgusting.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

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said by TigerLord:

The police chief is explicitly blaming the mayor.

Not the police commissioner, but rather the Union (PBA) president.

-----

When the Mayor and the Police Commissioner came into the hospital, long lines of police including the PBA president turned their backs on them. There's video of that although not shown on the news.

-----

Unlike Toronto, the mayor of NYC hires and fires the police commissioner.

TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

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Slain Officer's Son Mourns "Best Father I Could Ask For"

[att=1]
quote:
On Facebook, Jaden Ramos has been sharing photographs of his father, Rafael Ramos, one of the two NYPD officers slain yesterday. "I will always love you and I will never forget you. RIP Dad," he wrote.

"Today is the worst day of My Life," reads Ramos's first post from yesterday. Ramos's father Rafael was 40 years old. Wenjian Liu, the other officer, was 32. Jaden continued:
quote:
Today I had to say bye to my father. He was their for me everyday of my life, he was the best father I could ask for. It's horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. Everyone says they hate cops but they are the people that they call for help. I will always love you and I will never forget you. RIP Dad.
Last night members of the NYPD in attendance at Woodhull hospital turned their backs on the mayor as he passed on his way to deliver a press conference with Commissioner Bratton.

[att=2]

»gawker.com/slain-officer ··· 73801001