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PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to scross

Premium Member

to scross

Re: AV: So dighting frustrating....

said by scross:

BTW, this may sound silly on the face of it, but it may not be long before we need some type of AV for our cars.

It's not silly at all.

Similarly it is a massive and largely ignored problem in terms of all sorts of hospital equipment, devices, and systems.

Medical device hacking - FDA told to start taking it seriously
»nakedsecurity.sophos.com ··· riously/
butchie
join:2000-12-29
Jupiter, FL

butchie to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

Please, just answer the guys' question................
ESET/NOD32....... no problems!

dean corso
human.exe
join:2007-09-07

dean corso to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
One of the funniest posts I've ever read in Security.

Dustyn
Premium Member
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN

Dustyn to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1
Is this a rant?
Just asking as there's a forum for that.
If not ESET Smart Security / NOD32 or possibly Comodo Internet Security. (Free)

dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

dib22 to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
Check out EMSIsoft Anti Malware. Been using it for years, no issues.

»www.emsisoft.com/en/soft ··· malware/

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to camper

Premium Member

to camper

Re: AV: So fucking frustrating....

said by camper:

As with all installs I do, I always go directly to the Custom Install option and install ONLY the stuff I want, and not the whole kitchen sink that the vendor wants to install on my computer.

In the case of Avast (or any AV, for that matter), I install only the file system shield, i.e., the part that actually does anti-virus checking.

All the other bloat that Avast wants to install on my computer stays in the install file.

This 100% !!!

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

2 edits

Anonymous_ to dave

Premium Member

to dave
Slows down the computer a lot and installs GB;s worth of garbage
said by dave:

said by StuartMW:

case you don't know Sun (who owned Java at the time) sued MS a decade or so ago as they created their own JVM.

The suit wasn't because Microsoft implemented a JVM - they were perfectly entitled to do that, as far as I recall. Sun's beef was that Microsoft didn't implement the entire Sun JVM spec, and they did implement extensions.

Ironically in the context of this subthread, some of the Microsoft divergence from standard was to improve runtime efficiency.

I *think* I remember that J++ might used ahead-of-time 'traditional' compilation, but it's been too many years now.

I remember MS/JVM at lest Is 1000 x faster then sun jvm with no bloatware
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

Yeah, I far preferred Microsoft Java Virtual Machine to Sun's version and I used Microsoft's version for as long as I could. I remember the arguments we had here, in the dslr Java forum, regarding which was best. I was not happy when I bought my first XP computer and it came with the OS XP Pro SP 1a installed (Sun java instead of Microsoft java).

sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium Member
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX

sivran to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

I haven't really had any trouble with Avast. For my part, it's the best of the free AVs, having minimal impact on performance (albeit more than previous versions) while also having generally better protection than other free options.

Another option aside from AV is executable whitelisting. There aren't many products on the market for that and no free ones. Potentially annoying to manage but at the same time very light on the system.

As for the whole subthread thing--I got out of the "Computer Science/Programming" career path when I realized I wasn't a good programmer. Maybe I should've stuck it out (would probably be making more money), but I ended up in "Information Systems" and the resulting broad education base turned out to be a perfect fit for my current role.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross

Member

said by sivran:

I got out of the "Computer Science/Programming" career path when I realized I wasn't a good programmer.

Trust me, you don't necessarily have to be a "good" programmer to make a good living at it. And you can also make a good living (and have remarkable job security to boot) by maintaining/upgrading/rewriting other's "crap" code that is mission critical but that everybody else is afraid to touch. I've seen people go so far as to quit their jobs or at least transfer into other departments rather than have to get their hands dirty with this stuff, such is their fear of it.

trparky
Premium Member
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
·AT&T U-Verse

trparky to Anonymous_

Premium Member

to Anonymous_

Re: AV: So fucking frustrating....

said by Anonymous_:

Slows down the computer a lot and installs GB;s worth of garbage

How old of a computer do you have? Because I've never had an issues with my computer slowing down when running a .NET application. They run just as fast as a native application.

As for storage.... it's cheap. You can get a decent size hard drive for dirt cheap these days and a decent sized SSD for a relatively low cost.

Obviously if you're running anything less than a Core i-Series chip you're going to be having some issues. A quad-core CPU is a bare minimum for today's computers especially if you're going to be seriously multitasking (and I certainly multitask!). There's not a moment in time that I don't have a minimum of 6 programs running at the same time with even more running in the background. I've got fifteen programs running right now using 40% of my 16 GBs of RAM in my machine. I certainly push this machine and use it for all that it's worth!
gnome84
join:2014-04-12
Saint Paul, MN

gnome84 to scross

Member

to scross

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

said by scross:

quit their jobs or at least transfer into other departments rather than have to get their hands dirty with this stuff, such is their fear of it.

yep sort of like the ivory trade

Boricua
Premium Member
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

Boricua to sivran

Premium Member

to sivran
said by sivran:

I haven't really had any trouble with Avast. For my part, it's the best of the free AVs, having minimal impact on performance (albeit more than previous versions) while also having generally better protection than other free options.

Another option aside from AV is executable whitelisting. There aren't many products on the market for that and no free ones. Potentially annoying to manage but at the same time very light on the system.

I've been using Avast since the 4.0 version and haven't had any problems or issues. I also click on custom everytime I installe Avast (or any other app) to make sure only items that are critically to its installation and not fluff (bloatware).
said by sivran:

As for the whole subthread thing--I got out of the "Computer Science/Programming" career path when I realized I wasn't a good programmer. Maybe I should've stuck it out (would probably be making more money), but I ended up in "Information Systems" and the resulting broad education base turned out to be a perfect fit for my current role.

I took a programming class many years ago twice and still couldn't figure it out. I realized programming is not for me and knew my limitations on that.
Boricua

Boricua to trparky

Premium Member

to trparky

Re: AV: So fucking frustrating....

said by trparky:

Obviously if you're running anything less than a Core i-Series chip you're going to be having some issues. A quad-core CPU is a bare minimum for today's computers especially if you're going to be seriously multitasking (and I certainly multitask!). There's not a moment in time that I don't have a minimum of 6 programs running at the same time with even more running in the background. I've got fifteen programs running right now using 40% of my 16 GBs of RAM in my machine. I certainly push this machine and use it for all that it's worth!

IMO, you are the exception and not the rule. For many people, me included, don't "multi-task" for x amount of programs or windows open. At home, they are comfortable using their desktop/laptop for surfing the need, shopping online, or reading.

DigitalXeron
There is a lack of sanity
join:2003-12-17
Hamilton, ON

1 edit

3 recommendations

DigitalXeron to trparky

Member

to trparky
said by trparky:

Obviously if you're running anything less than a Core i-Series chip you're going to be having some issues. A quad-core CPU is a bare minimum for today's computers especially if you're going to be seriously multitasking (and I certainly multitask!). There's not a moment in time that I don't have a minimum of 6 programs running at the same time with even more running in the background. I've got fifteen programs running right now using 40% of my 16 GBs of RAM in my machine. I certainly push this machine and use it for all that it's worth!

Inline with this conversation that is going on in this very thread. Poor programming has largely pushed the requirements up. It used to be amazing what a competent programmer could do in ASM, look at MenuetOS and how quick and efficient it is. The issue is that programmers these days are getting more and more abstracted away from the actual concept that they are developing on finite machines. This coupled with non-programmer project managers (Marketing) in many scenarios results in a bloated, rushed project that is buggy and unstable. Nowadays programmers are delighted to be even abstracted further by developing on "The Cloud" because it means they get what feels like to them infinite resources.

The majority of software in today's world could be refactored to run smoothly on a machine half of the minimum requirements if programmers actually understood the concept of optimization and good practices and had time to do it instead of relying on a compiler to do it for them.

I think programmers need to learn the basics of working in a finite state machine before they should be allowed to release code to the public. Consider: at the moment, if a program runs slowly, it's never their code that's at fault — it's always an allegedly underspec'd computer, you're told to upgrade or get a new machine. It used to be that computers in a given configuration could last 5-10 years, now you're lucky to get 2 before the machine starts jittering on the newest programs.

Development at the moment is way too fast-paced and effort being put in the wrong spots (features over bugfixes for instance).
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross

Member

I'm old enough to have worked on systems which only had 96K of memory; they performed better with 128K, though, and maxed out at 256K, IIRC. Their CPUs ran at a few megahertz, at most, and disk size was generally in the low tens of megabytes; almost always less than 100 megabytes, total. Yet they were multi-user, multitasking systems which ran multi-million dollar businesses with ease, and they almost NEVER went down in any kind of unscheduled way! The OS also had real security built-in, although the level of sophistication there wasn't particularly high.

This hardware and associated OS were relatively expensive, though, so you made every ounce of it count. And if anything ever went wrong with it then you held the vendor accountable, and they invariably quickly stepped up to the plate and got the problem resolved with speed and efficiency.

So I was a bit confused when PCs first started coming out, with hardware that was more bountiful and supposedly more powerful than what I had been working on, but with an OS and software that were far less capable than what I was used to and used far more resources. It wasn't multi-user, multitasking, had no real security, no real stability, or any of that. I could easily blame Microsoft for most of this, but Apple seems to be much to blame here, too. And even Unix (when it became available for such machines), which is a real, full-blown OS (more in line with what I was used to), required something like one megabyte of memory to run comfortably - although it was claimed that it would absolutely "scream" if you gave it two whole megabytes! Such numbers just seem laughably quaint today, don't they?
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

1 recommendation

PX Eliezer1 to Dustyn

Premium Member

to Dustyn

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

said by Dustyn:

Is this a rant?
Just asking as there's a forum for that.

I'd say it combines elements of rant and lament.
said by Dustyn:

If not ESET Smart Security / NOD32 or possibly Comodo Internet Security. (Free)

ESET/NOD32 is a great idea if I do go the paid route.

I'm actually using the free Comodo product now on another machine. But I have never been comfortable after the Comodo certificate scandal. Also the firewall component seems to delay internet access on startup.

-----

Again thanks to everyone for their comments.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

1 edit

StuartMW to DigitalXeron

Premium Member

to DigitalXeron

Re: AV: So fucking frustrating....

said by DigitalXeron:

I think programmers need to learn the basics of working in a finite state machine...

40-50 years ago a lot of (discrete logic) hardware was designed using FSM's. I've written a lot of firmware, for real-world control systems, using the FSM approach It works very well.
StuartMW

1 edit

1 recommendation

StuartMW to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

said by PX Eliezer1:

I'd say it combines elements of rant and lament.

Perhaps the whole thread needs to be moved to Dustyn's Wall

infixed
join:2014-03-16
Melbourne, FL

infixed to andyross

Member

to andyross

Re: AV: So fucking frustrating....

said by andyross:

What is the paranoia about .NET? Why do so many people hate it? As mentioned, some versions are pre-installed as part of Windows, as some Windows components use it.

I can only think that some older versions had issues, and that fed the paranoia? My only complaint about .NET is that the Windows Updates for them often take quite awhile to install.

There is really something odd about Karpursy and .NET, like it put hooks into it.

I have a HTPC that has a sunsetted XP install on it. (It's behind a firewall, and only talks to netflix and my media server, so I'm not too concerned about it.)

But the key fact is that it is past XP's end of life. No more 'real code' updates. The only thing it should be getting through MS Update is security signature and that anti-malware stuff

But just in case, I wanted an AV on that PC. So I tried Kaspersky trial edition on it. And it was really annoying. nag nag nag nag. One week and I gave up.

But it wasn't a trivial uninstall. It kept looping on some dialog, like it was an incomplete install and wanted a complete install before uninstalling. I forget what I had to do , but finally I got it out.

But just after that I had the MS Update from hell. Like 16 updates. Real .NET related updates, like KAV had corrupted the original .NET installs. It wasn't quick to complete either. I gave up and let it run overnight.

Not too happy with KAV, and it seems like .NET is tangled up in that product somehow.
evoxllx
join:2007-06-07
Winter Park, FL

evoxllx to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

I've always found it interesting how so many people want to install malware on their PC to protect themselves from other malware.

WildByDesign
join:2014-09-05
Canada

WildByDesign to sivran

Member

to sivran
said by sivran:

Another option aside from AV is executable whitelisting. There aren't many products on the market for that and no free ones. Potentially annoying to manage but at the same time very light on the system.

Executable whitelisting is definitely a great layer to any layered security setup. I have two software suggestions that I would recommend.

- An up and coming software called Bouncer which is a low level kernel-mode driver running at ring0 that is tiny, simple and very efficient. There is expected to be a free limited version and also and a paid Plus version at a later time which would include file hashes and so on. The only real limitation to the free version is having a config file maximum size of 3KB. Although mine is sitting right on 3KB and is quite thorough and majority of users would not likely need more, that would be more for complete system lock downs scenarios for like Kiosks or POS. Paid versions will be lifetime licences. Link: »excubits.com/content/en/ ··· cer.html

* I should state that I have been beta-testing for Bouncer for a few weeks now and providing suggestions to the developer to increase usability. It's more for security enthusiasts who like to get their hands dirty, not for every day users.

- My other suggestion would be using Software Restriction Policies built into Windows. For the editions of Windows that do not include the Group Policy stuff, there is Simple Software-restriction Policy (likely discussed here in the past) which is free and open source and allows any editions of Windows to utilize the built-in Windows SRP functionality. I have also used that for a few years and would highly recommend it. Link: »sourceforge.net/projects ··· epolicy/

Prevention is definitely the way to go when it comes to malware these days and whitelisting is a great idea as suggested by sivran. Whitelisting can be included in any layered setup. I personally use it as my main security layer with no anti-virus, OS hardening, EMET, and a little bit of common sense. But everyday casual users likely should not go without an antivirus though.

Cheers!

horacebork
Premium Member
join:2011-03-17
09001

horacebork to Bill_MI

Premium Member

to Bill_MI

Re: AV: So fucking frustrating....

Visual Basic which promotes lazy code that runs like a cow with lead boots in a mud patch

this.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

1 recommendation

Blackbird to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

said by StuartMW:

said by PX Eliezer1:

I'd say it combines elements of rant and lament.

Perhaps the whole thread needs to be moved to Dustyn's Wall

Uhmm... sorry... it appears to have gone to that great bit-bucket in the sky, but it will never be forgotten...
»Re: stuff about DSLR

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

Dustyn's Wall was "knocked down"? Bummer for him I guess

planet
join:2001-11-05
Oz

planet to WildByDesign

Member

to WildByDesign
said by WildByDesign:

Executable whitelisting is definitely a great layer to any layered security setup. I have two software suggestions that I would recommend.

Another that I like is Faronics Anti-Executable. What I like is the installation is not complicated and once installed you can identify which users on the machine can access AE to manage the whitelisting.
»www.faronics.com/product ··· cutable/

WildByDesign
join:2014-09-05
Canada

WildByDesign

Member

said by planet:

Another that I like is Faronics Anti-Executable. What I like is the installation is not complicated and once installed you can identify which users on the machine can access AE to manage the whitelisting.

I haven't personally tried Faronics AE, but I have heard a lot of great things about it. They have a lot of advanced features, for sure. Keeping things simple and understandable is not easy for that type of program, so that is good to hear that it is not complicated.
gnome84
join:2014-04-12
Saint Paul, MN

1 edit

gnome84 to infixed

Member

to infixed

Re: AV: So fucking frustrating....

said by infixed:

There is really something odd about Karpursy and .NET, like it put hooks into it.

Or as they used to say at Tandem computers you cant handle the truth

sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium Member
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX

1 recommendation

sivran to WildByDesign

Premium Member

to WildByDesign

Re: AV: So f****** frustrating....

We had a user here (haven't seen him in a while) who would often demonstrate how AE protected his system whenever a new exploit or driveby malware was found.

Maybe it finally didn't.
SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY

SilentMan to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

Trying to install some sort of decent AV program, and at this point even willing to pay money rather than freeware.

But AARGH!

Kaspersky starts to install and informs me that it's installing Microsoft Dot Net. I don't want Microsoft Dot Net. There was no advance warning, no chance to say no, it just took advantage of the situation. Obviously this is Cosbyware.

BullGuard downloads a small downloader program, then supposedly downloads the full program. But a half hour goes by, nothing is happening, there is nothing on the screen. I end up having to remove lots of temp files afterwards.

Before you install anything on your PC, create a system restore first; that way if something crashes during the installation of the program, you can go back and set your Windows back to the way it was before.