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McBrain
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join:2010-05-06
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McBrain

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[Classes] Gladiators: With your shield or on it

Hello everyone, in this thread I am going to make a solid attempt at providing a comprehensive PVE guide for all of those itching to play a Gladiator spec Warrior. I'll do my best to appeal to both new players as well as seasoned vets.

Most of what you will read below will be a combination of guides found elsewhere on various Warrior and Gladiator specific sites, as well as logs, and a bit of anecdotal evidence.

First off, what is the Gladiator Spec?

A: Gladiator's Resolve is a level 100 talent available to Protection Warriors that, as the tooltip states, is a dauntless combat stance which replaces Battle Stance and increases physical damage dealt by 20% and replaces Shield Block with Shield Charge. Once this talent is selected, the Warrior MAY NOT switch stances while in combat.

It is also important to add that while in Gladiator Stance, you do not generate extra threat nor do you mitigate any extra damage. This makes it neigh impossible to tank effectively while in the stance. I.e. This playstyle is 100% offensive minded, swiching between DPS/Tank archetypes during combat like Feral Druids once were capable of is not an option.

Alright, let's talk talents.




This is your run of the mill, generic talent set up that will be your go-to choice for nearly all encounters.

-Level 15 Talent: Juggernaut, pretty straight forward...reduces the cooldown of Charge to 12 seconds from 20. This will be the top choice on this tier.

-Double Time is also an option here, but the fact that Charge will only generate rage once every 12 seconds makes it no better than Juggernaut.

-Warbringer is mostly a PvP talent, but could see some uses in PvE when adds can be stunned causing their casts to be interrupted.

-Level 30 Talent: Enraged Regeneration is the clear talent choice of this tier. It is a decent self heal that is off the GCD, when paired with Last Stand its potency is immense since you maintain the health you generate while Last Stand is active (unlike Rallying Cry).

-Second Wind is garbage in every situation. Dont use it.

-Impending Victory, while good for Fury Warriors, is not a good talent for Gladiators since we are GCD capped.

-Level 45 Talent: Unyielding Strikes is currently the highest DPS talent of this tier, but creates a VERY spammy playstyle (~90 actions per minute) that may not be comfortable for all players.

-Heavy Repercussions was the go-to talent here prior to the 20% nerf to Shield Slam. It is still a viable option for those not comfortable with the 90 APM style that is Unyielding Strikes.

-Sudden Death is the least optimal choice in this tier due to the fact that Execute does not have synergy with the spec at all.

-Level 60 Talent: Dragon Roar offers the best single target AND AoE damage.

-Storm Bolt takes too many GCDs.

-Shockwave is only good for stunning, regardless of the number of targets.

-Level 75 Talent: Vigilance is an awesome ability, and the only inkling of utility that we have.

-Safeguard will lead to a quick death if used at the wrong time or on the wrong person, but is good in encounters with DoTs.

-Mass Spell Reflection is VERY niche and generally not usable in raid encounters.

-Level 90 Talent: Bloodbath is best in a majority of the situations you will encounter in Highmaul. Also, its synergy with Dragon Roar is worth mentioning.

-Bladestorm is usable on >4 targets when you need burst AoE. However, its power is GREATLY diminished for Gladiators considering we only use one 1H weapon and Bladestorm's damage is purely weapon based. The AoE damage combination of Thunderclap (which spreads Deep Wounds), Bloodbath, and Dragon Roar will outshine Bladestorm in 95% of situations.

-Avatar is only useful in very specific situations and is generally not a better option than the other two talents.

-Level 100 Talent: Gladiator's Resolve...duh.

GLYPHS:

Mandatory:
-Unending Rage mandatory glyph for proper rage management.
-Cleave massive amounts of cleave exist in PvE right now, making this glyph required.

Situational:
-Rude Interruption is an amazing glyph on encounters in which you must interrupt. (Brackenspore/Imperator)
-Bull Rush is decent for when you must switch targets and charge often.

Others for Consideration:
-Death From Above
-Enraged Speed
-Resonating Power
-Wind and Thunder

STATS:

The stat priority for a Gladiator Warrior when gearing up for Highmaul is as follows:

STR > Bonus Armor > 330 Haste Breakpoint > Crit > Haste > Multistrike > Versatility > Mastery

-Basically, you want to stack Bonus Armor (much like a tank) on all of your accessory items. This stat will ONLY be available on: necklaces, cloaks, rings, and trinkets. Secondly, you want to have a total of 330 haste, followed by crit, haste again, then multistrike. If at all possible, try to avoid items with versatility and/or mastery.

-The commonly accepted haste breakpoint is around 330 Haste (with raid buffs) to allow for an extra GCD inside Shield Charge.

Stat priorities can be read about much more in depth here:
»gladiatorsresolve.blogsp ··· ies.html

Remember that ymmv depending on your gear and to an extent raid buffs. It is encouraged to use »www.simulationcraft.org/ to find your own stat interactions.

ROTATION

SINGLE Target:

-Gladiator DPS is reminiscent of 5.4 Fury, backed by Protections reliable rotation. Shield Charge works in the same manner as Colossus Smash did and our DPS revolves around maximizing damage done during the buff. The basic concept is simple, pool rage, apply the buff, and use as many Shield Slams and Heroic Strikes as possible.

-Shield Charge to maintain the buff. Instead of using back to back, delay slightly to so that Shield Slam can be used on the first GCD of the buff.
-Shield Slam on cooldown.
-Revenge on cooldown, inside Shield Charge when possible.
-Devastate during free GCDs, when unable to use Shield Slam or Revenge. This can proc a CD reset on Shield Slam.
-Heroic Strike should only be used outside of Shield Charge to keep from capping rage while pooling for Shield Charge. During Shield Charge, use as many times as possible (4-5 times).

-Align Bloodbath with Shield Charge, preferably with potions, trinkets or other damage increasing effects.
-If using Unyeilding Strikes, spam Heroic Strike inside and outside of Shield Charge.
-If using Heavy Repercussions, the rotation does not change.
-If using Dragon Roar or Storm Bolt, use outside of Shield Charge, preferably on the GCD before Shield Slam comes off cooldown.

OPENER
Even when using Unyielding Strikes, don't hold off to try to build stacks. Depending on luck with SSlam resets/Enrage procs you'll probably only get 3 HS inside the first Shield Charge but by the time you chain to the second Shield Charge, you'll be maxing stacks.

-Not accounting for Haste or Shield Slam resets your OPENER should look like;

0: Pot, Charge
1.5: Shield Charge + BB, Shield Slam
3.0: Revenge
4.5: Devastate
6.0: Devastate
7.5: Shield Slam (due to Haste this will occur before SC wears off)
Delay next Shield Charge until SSlam comes off CD. Fill with Devastate until then.

Multi-Target
The rotation for Gladiator doesn't change much for multi-target, since there is no inherent AoE ability like Whirlwind for Arms and Fury. The only real optimization comes from ensuring the Deep Wounds debuff is present on all targets via use of Thunder Clap.

AoE
Thunder Clap to keep Deep Wounds up on all TARGETS (every 10-15s, or when a new target appears). Tab target Devastate works as well at 6 targets, use Thunder Clap on cooldown in place of Devastate.

-Bladestorm becomes useful at around 4 targets, depending on how long the targets are up.

This just about sums it up, thanks to Archimtiros and Duffster over at »sentrytotem.com/ and »gladiatorsresolve.blogspot.jp/ respectively for their research, testing, and input about this brand new spec. I'll do my best to update this guide as necessary and will be checking in often to see if I've sparked any interest/discussion about Gladiators.
Criticals
join:2010-05-30

Criticals

Member

55 views and no ones gonna say it...well im not even playing the game and I can see this is a good guide. Thanks for posting this. If I was to come back then I would consider playing this spec.

Immer
Gentleman
Premium Member
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA

Immer to McBrain

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to McBrain
Awesome guide, brother. This is a great way for prot warrior to have a dps OS without requiring more bag space.

Goldheart
join:2002-06-09
Las Cruces, NM

Goldheart to Criticals

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to Criticals
I don't have a warrior toon that I am playing currently alas.

Pollux7777
join:2010-02-16
Saint Paul, MN

Pollux7777 to McBrain

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to McBrain
Very nice write-up McBrain. Is this a spec you've played much? If so, whats your experience been? Is it competitive with other DPS specs?
Cluebat
join:2010-03-25
New Bern, NC

Cluebat to McBrain

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to McBrain
I have found this helpful:

»gladiatorsresolve.blogspot.com/

Not blocked for me.

McBrain
BRB Face Melting
join:2010-05-06
Marietta, GA

McBrain to Pollux7777

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to Pollux7777
said by Pollux7777:

...

Yeah man, I've played Gladiator ever since I hit 100. I am very competitive DPS-wise in my group, however my ilvl is slacking a little as of late because I've not been able to stay the full duration of the past few raids (wife aggro).

I have noticed as of last night that my opening burst is nowhere near some other classes...most guys in my raid group are bursting up to 60k on pull with our Feral Druids topping 70k sometimes. But what I lack in opening and execute burst, I make up for in solid consistent dps over the course of the fight.

As of right now I am 657 ilvl, with most DPS on my team between 662-665. We are 6/7H and will more than likely be 7/7H and 1/7M after tonight.

I don't currently have gear I'm comfortable with to support playing a different spec on cleave fights, but as soon as I do I plan on going Arms or TG Fury for fights like Tectus, Brackenspore, and Twins.

I will link my logs from last night, a full normal clear and first 3 on heroic before I had to log out due to a crushing blow from the wifey, I just have to switch over to my cell phone to do so since warcraftlogs is blocked for me at work.
McBrain

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to Pollux7777
Normal: »www.warcraftlogs.com/rep ··· #fight=8

Heroic: »www.warcraftlogs.com/rep ··· rbQ4fmTN

Mordred
join:2013-01-02

Mordred to McBrain

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to McBrain
I am not a fan of Gladiators this morning. I lost 2 bonus Armor pieces to one this weekend. I would be ok about it if I was able to roll on a chest that had Avoidance. I for sure that it was as tanking stat, boy was I wrong...

That is all, I am sure I will be back to complain when I lose the shield to them

McBrain
BRB Face Melting
join:2010-05-06
Marietta, GA

McBrain

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Welcome to the gear competition everyone else has been involved with since TBC.

Nick D
Premium Member
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

Nick D to Mordred

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Avoidance is just AOE damage reduction, so it's an everyone stat.

And it is ludicrously minimal. Those tertiary stats are more for lulz than "upgrade!"

Mordred
join:2013-01-02

1 edit

Mordred to McBrain

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to McBrain
said by McBrain:

Welcome to the gear competition everyone else has been involved with since TBC.

I know the competition well, I did not use any tanking gear in Mist. It was all DPS. Me as a player would not of rolled on the second bonus armor piece. I would of left it between the other tank and gladiator. Both in Guild so spread the loot around. This is more on my loot master than the class. As far as not rolling as a player to spread it around, that is just how I feel about loot. Other opinions may vary. I was just venting because it was a Gladiator thread.
said by Nick D:

Avoidance is just AOE damage reduction, so it's an everyone stat.

And it is ludicrously minimal. Those tertiary stats are more for lulz than "upgrade!"

I understand that the tertiary stats are mostly for flavor. I was unable to roll for the chest period (being a 25 point upgrade so not "lulz") because it wasn't for tanking. Again more on my loot master than anything.

It was just frustrating for me to see 3 pieces of plate drop that could of been split between 4 plate wearers all go to 1. Again my opinion on loot.

Nick D
Premium Member
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

Nick D

Premium Member

said by Mordred:

it wasn't for tanking. Again more on my loot master than anything

Does "wasn't for tanking" even theoretically exist anymore? I suppose some trinkets might qualify, but the other previously DPS-only stats (crit/haste) have tanking ramifications now (at least for prot warriors). This is an honest question; I'm not sure if I should be looking at things differently.

I might also be misunderstanding you; are you saying they gave bonus armor pieces to glad warriors over tanks, or that your loot master said "no bonus armor = DPS piece" or some such?

I just want to rail against tank gearing injustice.

Mordred
join:2013-01-02

Mordred to McBrain

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to McBrain
I prob should of ranted on a dif post since it was about my loot master not the class but here we are.
said by Nick D:

Does "wasn't for tanking" even theoretically exist anymore?

My understanding is that it does not for the most part. I dont think you are looking at things differently, I was not clear in my rant. I was told by Loot Master that tanks could not roll on the chest piece because it was not for tanking. Which was bogus but it was late and I did not want to agrue over fake clothes. Apperantly I will complain on a messege board though
said by Nick D:

I might also be misunderstanding you; are you saying they gave bonus armor pieces to glad warriors over tanks, or that your loot master said "no bonus armor = DPS piece" or some such?

The 2 pieces of Bonus armor that dropped in the same raid night were given to the Gladiator along with the Avoidance Chest. This is my real gripe not the Class. How we handle loot usually is MS/OS. When you win a piece you take a back seat to other player/s that also need gear. For what ever reason it was not done this way.

It is only a game I am not going to lose any sleep over it. All the numbers say Gladiator is a viable dps spec, just get your own lootz
djlar
join:2009-04-23
799228

djlar to McBrain

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to McBrain
Ouch?

Gladiator Stance (Protection) now increases damage by 5% (down from 20%).

Cat5
join:2013-04-26

Cat5

Member

said by djlar:

Ouch?

Gladiator Stance (Protection) now increases damage by 5% (down from 20%).

Almost all the abilities got buffs though, so hopefully it will balance out.

McBrain
BRB Face Melting
join:2010-05-06
Marietta, GA

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McBrain to djlar

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to djlar
It looks to be anywhere from a 2% single target buff to a 6% aoe buff for Gladiators. The only spells that we use that will be negatively effected by the nerf to Gladiator Stance are Heroic Strike and Dragon's Roar. The (huge) buffs to Shield Slam, Revenge, Devastate, Thunder Clap, and ESPECIALLY Deep Wounds will more than make up for it. I'm at the chow hall at the moment eating dinner, but I will toss a link in here fairly shortly to show some math for those interested.
McBrain

McBrain

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I missed 90% of my raid last night because it was my son's birthday and I was doing my fatherly duties on FaceTime, but I showed up in time for Imperator. We didn't get a kill last night because several retards kept tripping mines. But, we did get into last phase several times. I saw my dps increase 15-20% with a combination of my 690 ring proc, Thunder Clap spam, and Deep Wounds being spread to all the adds. I usually pulled a paltry 22-23k, and on our best attempt last night I hit 26.2k and was steadily climbing. With some tweaks to my cooldown usage I could hit 30k easily I believe.

I looked for that link all evening on mmo-champ with the math for Gladiator's and couldn't find it. Surely I was overlooking it. But if you guys feel the need to browse over there, it is in one of the dozen or so threads about the recent hotfixes.

Ginjer
Premium Member
join:2009-08-14
Earth

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Where you at these days? Chow Hall?

McBrain
BRB Face Melting
join:2010-05-06
Marietta, GA

McBrain

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Unaccompanied in Okinawa for 2 more weeks. Been the longest two years of my life.
Wishflthinkn
join:2011-01-27
Bruceton Mills, WV

Wishflthinkn to McBrain

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to McBrain
Getting back to family after a long separation is the best feeling for those who truly enjoy the company of their families. Holy cow that really sucks. Grats on making it through 2 yrs with your sanity. I did mine a year at a time and hated every moment of it. I did not even have little ones at home at the time. BTW, Thank you for your service.

Ginjer
Premium Member
join:2009-08-14
Earth

Ginjer to McBrain

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Well, that is taxing, but glad you are on the home stretch. I head to WOCS next month so playing when I can until I leave. Around July of this year I should have more time once all my schools are complete and I arrive at my new station.
Ginjer

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Well, I made my Gladiator Warrior the Tanking/Strength DM Trinkets. Which, I think are working great. I also crafted him the BS Pants. I then ran my first LFR to get a feel for things. I had no clue what was going on Mechanics wise (I will research that of course for real raiding), but was in the Top 5 for DPS on Boss fights. However, my Weapon and Shield are only IL609 and 610 respectively.

A good start. I got my IL from IL 615 I think up to around 626 I think in one night.

puppy
join:2010-01-28
San Diego, CA

puppy

Member

Ginjer, reading this I assume you have both inscription and BS. How are you liking these professions?

My warrior is around level 82 now and I'm considering his professions. Right now for leveling I have skinning and mining (I was going to drop mining when I hit 90) but maybe I don't need skinning either.

Just buy the skins needed for BS?

Was it hard to make the trinkets using inscription?

Ginjer
Premium Member
join:2009-08-14
Earth

Ginjer

Premium Member

Well I have 4 x toons now at 100. All of them have an inscription hut except my DK (BS/ENG and not Level 3 Garrison yet). You can always just buy the skins.

Being an Altoholic and being able to make my own DM Trinkets is priceless. I should have maybe made my guy a shield, but I figured I can better use mats. With the Inscription Huts, you can do work orders every day. For every 10 inks (can't remember the name) you can make a DM Card. So, I usually get between 1-2 cards a day from 3 x toons. (6 a day). You are of course fighting the RNG monster, but you can always trade others or sell them for profit and buy the ones you need.
Ginjer

Ginjer

Premium Member

Also, I ended up making about 8 x trinkets on Tuesday. Three of the STR/AGI/Crit Proc ones, 2 of the INT/Crit Proc, 1 of the INT/Spirit Proc, and 1 of the Bonus Armor/Crit Proc

McBrain
BRB Face Melting
join:2010-05-06
Marietta, GA

McBrain to Ginjer

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The Gladiator rotation is very simple, just extremely spammy. I cover it very well in my original post here.

puppy
join:2010-01-28
San Diego, CA

puppy to Ginjer

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Thanks for the replies Ginjer. You've convinced me to at least get inscription when my warrior hits 90!

Still debating if I should get BS. In 6.1 you can continue to upgrade crafted gear even more, another 10 levels.

My main has enchanting and alchemy right now but I can probably buy every single recipe and I don't really do the work orders anymore (my own daily cooldown is a lot better return). Maybe I'll trash one of those.

Alchemy followers give free potions everyday.... While the weapon enchant colors are nice, I can always beg from a guildie or buy from another enchanter if I really wanted a nice color

How do you get your savage bloods?

Cat5
join:2013-04-26

Cat5

Member

said by puppy:

Thanks for the replies Ginjer. You've convinced me to at least get inscription when my warrior hits 90!

It's very heavily server based. Trinkets make very little gold on my server since LFR and often it's not worth the price to buy the extra cards you need.
said by puppy:

Still debating if I should get BS. In 6.1 you can continue to upgrade crafted gear even more, another 10 levels.

No one in their right mind upgrades gear. Each upgrade costs roughly 15k in Savage Bloods. That's a lot of gold for gear which is probably going to be replaced as soon as you get lucky in the raid.If you are not raiding, why would you want an upgrade anyway? Unless Blizz reduce the Savage Bloods needed, most players will just sell the bloods.
said by puppy:

My main has enchanting and alchemy right now but I can probably buy every single recipe and I don't really do the work orders anymore (my own daily cooldown is a lot better return). Maybe I'll trash one of those.

Enchanting will make you a lot of gold on any server and alchemy will also get you a steady income. Also if you raid making your own pots is really nice. It is made totally moot by the Inn item which increases all stats by 200, but not everyone has the inn plus the effect doesn't persist through death. I'd keep both of these over BS.
said by puppy:

How do you get your savage bloods?

Easiest way is to farm epic mobs with the barn, but you can trade 50 Primal Spirits with a guy in your garrison for one. They make 1k+ gold each though, so I'd sell them. The upgrade to any gear isn't worth 15k.

puppy
join:2010-01-28
San Diego, CA

puppy

Member

All very good points cat, I'll have to think on it.

You are right about upgrading though. It seems like they should have made another daily cooldown types instead of savage bloods, so at least casuals like me can just slowly upgrade (for the fun of it) instead of spending 15k.