rtfm join:2005-07-09 Washington, DC 2 edits |
rtfm
Member
2014-Dec-25 12:00 am
Pace 5031NV-030 settings & statsSo we got our installation done today. As Just Anon portended, we got a Pace. I found nothing here on such; I'm looking at the various pages on it trying to learn more.
Since I'm doing this all over Team Viewer, I had to do screen dumps and transcribe some of the stats, see the enclosed.
Down | Up User Rate | 21215 kbs | 2047 kbs Max User Rate | 55392 kbs | 12536 kbs noise margin | 21.8 dB | 29.9 dB Atten | 19.2 dB | 17.2 dB
Ratecap | 54351 kps Atten@ 300Khz | 9.6dB
and the DSL Diags page C_5_3 looks interesting.
Comments/info sources welcomed.
Other threads have talked about loop length, profile and VRAD card type; can I tell those on this unit? |
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my thoughts
Anon
2014-Dec-25 2:46 am
Based on upstream availability this is an N card, F card would never have that much up, and I do not recall seeing K cards above 10.
A Full Tech Install with Max or lower internet speed is 19/2 while the same as a customer self install would be 13/2.... the CSI would have no over provision. As it appears your 19 is about 110%+ to be 21.2
Several months ago, posted ave attenuation compared to loop length but for F cards.... while do not recall numbers immediately the atten being 19.2 with 21 SN I would guess... 1800 feet (+-10%) but the K card could mean different. An F card at Vrad would be 55-65M expect K card to be 75-85M and you have 55M at Nid, line loss about 20M+ using old rule of thumb drop 1M/100 feet would place you over 2000 feet. |
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my thoughts |
my thoughts
Anon
2014-Dec-25 2:51 am
Correction to previous post K card expect 65-75 while N card expect 75-85 at Vrad.... either card provides a higher starting point so expect the improved SN being higher but attenuation should be relative the same regardless of card as this is loop length and line quality. |
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my thoughts |
my thoughts
Anon
2014-Dec-25 2:56 am
One more thought... is this for a business?
Business accounts are always full tech installs regardless of loop length or speed profile ordered. My earlier posting about requirements are for residential service, your reference to client in past thread leads me to believe business account. If so sorry did not catch that detail earlier. |
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rtfm join:2005-07-09 Washington, DC |
to my thoughts
said by my thoughts :Based on upstream availability this is an N card, F card would never have that much up, and I do not recall seeing K cards above 10. That's the "Upstream Max User Rate of 12536"? A Full Tech Install with Max or lower internet speed is 19/2 while the same as a customer self install would be 13/2.... the CSI would have no over provision. As it appears your 19 is about 110%+ to be 21.2 That's the down/up User Rate? Several months ago, posted ave attenuation compared to loop length but for F cards.... while do not recall numbers immediately the atten being 19.2 with 21 SN I would guess... 1800 feet (+-10%) but the K card could mean different. An F card at Vrad would be 55-65M expect K card to be 75-85M and you have 55M at Nid, line loss about 20M+ using old rule of thumb drop 1M/100 feet would place you over 2000 feet. I measured it via Google Earth at 2.5Kft minimum. It's a straight shot up the road, right on the pole line and in. Any other route would be ~~25+ Kft. This is a resi account; I was led to believe the $100 installation was due to loop length... |
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my thoughts
Anon
2014-Dec-25 4:54 am
Profile reference not users actual speed tier. For self install Pro (3), Elite (6), or Max (12) the account is placed on a 13M profile while the same speed tiers with a full tech install is placed on a 19M profile.
For Max Plus (18) would require a 25M profile For Max Turbo (24) would require a 32M profile For Power (45) would require a 55M profile.
Max user rate is max sync to RG ideally needs to be minimum of 125% of profile, second ideal target is SN of 15 or better.
The above account has enough SN to move to 25M profile with 18M internet if willing to pay the extra $15 per month to move from Elite to Max Plus.
A profile change generally reflects as 4-5 (4.5) change to SN thus moving to 25M profile would lower SN to around 16 (still above 15) while an attempt to move to 32M profile (denied if distance over 2200 feet) would lower SN to around 12.
I am a late shifter, not a day walker, more repairs than installs, vdsl 95+% of time and triple play services with IPTV. I do very little internet only accounts (510/5031 RGs) and our tests provide so much more information that I seldom look at user RG stats resulting in "guess" the meaning of your stats.
And a long loop would require a FTI, will need to look at some more attenuation readings, the newer cards may be misrepresenting your distance as 19.2 does not seem like 2500 feet. |
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to my thoughts
said by my thoughts :Correction to previous post K card expect 65-75 while N card expect 75-85 at Vrad. The N card just adds G.992.4 Annex A (G.lite.bis) support and Annex L on ADSL2. Sync is identical on both cards (since it's the same 6511 chipset). Highest attainable I've seen at the shelf was ~126/31.. but I've also seen that 100-300m out. Where I work, 87/11 is the highest we have currently. |
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rtfm join:2005-07-09 Washington, DC 1 edit |
to my thoughts
said by my thoughts :Profile reference not users actual speed tier. For self install Pro (3), Elite (6), or Max (12) the account is placed on a 13M profile while the same speed tiers with a full tech install is placed on a 19M profile. Is the profile visible somewhere on the modem's data; or is that from your wisdom/experience? [I was thinking from threads here the modem actually displayed loop length.] said by my thoughts : Max user rate is max sync to RG ideally needs to be minimum of 125% of profile, second ideal target is SN of 15 or better.
The above account has enough SN to move to 25M profile with 18M internet if willing to pay the extra $15 per month to move from Elite to Max Plus. We debated that but he's paying Hugh Aircrash an ETF; & a selling point with his SWMBO was the monthly rate here was lower. In reality, it's good enough for their use. said by my thoughts : I do very little internet only accounts (510/5031 RGs) and our tests provide so much more information that I seldom look at user RG stats resulting in "guess" the meaning of your stats.
And a long loop would require a FTI, will need to look at some more attenuation readings, the newer cards may be misrepresenting your distance as 19.2 does not seem like 2500 feet. Is that "our" meaning the 589 vs the 5013, or test answers you get from the VRAD cards vice the modem? If I can find a better way to dump the modem pages. I'll do so. As it is, Team Viewer won't cut & paste but that's likely my inexperience + cross-platform; I can't send CNTL-keystroke etc. added: I do see Protocol: G.993.2_8d
on one screen dump and Country {46336}Vender {BDCM} Specific {41971}
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your moderator at work
hidden : Friendly delete
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to rtfm
Re: Pace 5031NV-030 settings & statssaid by rtfm:Protocol: G.993.2_8d
on one screen dump and Country {46336}Vender {BDCM} Specific {41971}
You're obviously on an 8d profile, but more importantly, you're already on a K or N card. (F cards have a Conexant chipset) |
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xsbell |
to rtfm
said by rtfm:said by my thoughts :Profile reference not users actual speed tier. For self install Pro (3), Elite (6), or Max (12) the account is placed on a 13M profile while the same speed tiers with a full tech install is placed on a 19M profile. Is the profile visible somewhere on the modem's data; or is that from your wisdom/experience? [I was thinking from threads here the modem actually displayed loop length. The sync rate in your modem stats is your profile, he just means that just because you're on a certain profile, it doesn't mean that's the internet speed you'll get. There are RADIUS speed policies that can be applied which would limit your PPP session or internet VLAN to whatever they set. You can be on a 50/10 profile, but I set the speed policy to 5Mbps, you'll only be able to get 5Mbps. |
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my thoughts to rtfm
Anon
2014-Dec-26 12:37 pm
to rtfm
Is the profile visible on RG stats..... Only in seeing user rate. Somejoe7777 UVRealtime offered some greater detail for the 2Wire VDSL products, 3600, 3800, 3801, and 3812 (inid). He never went further with the 2013 VDSL release products of 5031, 589 or adsl2+ RG 510. He used info from RG with math formula to estimate distance (generally within 10-15% of Uverse tech numbers reported). For an example .... » I want to see if my stats look ok |
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rtfm join:2005-07-09 Washington, DC |
rtfm
Member
2014-Dec-26 1:00 pm
said by my thoughts :"Is the profile visible on RG stats.....?"
Only in seeing user rate. Ahh, OK. I was looking for "8D" "25M" etc. I infer you get feedback on same when you use your tools to look at an account. said by my thoughts :He used info from RG with math formula to estimate distance (generally within 10-15% of Uverse tech numbers reported). Gotcha. Separate from that, I was hoping the WiFi end of the Pace had some site survey function to find the quietest channels... Alas, no. Wish there was some documentation on the beast. There's a submenu with an interesting bar graph and other things but not sure what it is yet. Will look also for a WAN management option so I could enable, log in & do direct grabs vs clumsy remote to PC to modem.... |
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JA @108.254.116.x |
JA
Anon
2014-Dec-26 10:18 pm
said by rtfm:Separate from that, I was hoping the WiFi end of the Pace had some site survey function to find the quietest channels... Alas, no. Wish there was some documentation on the beast. There's a submenu with an interesting bar graph and other things but not sure what it is yet. I've found site survey functions on Uverse RGs to be hit or miss anyhow. You are better off downloading an app to your smartphone (if you have one) and doing it yourself. I would also suggest reading up on how Wifi channels work as it is not as simple as picking a channel that doesn't have an AP on that channel. Channels overlap and interference from side-channel overlap is actually more detrimental than aligning your channel to be centered over other nearby AP. Wikipedia has more technical aspects covered; but Googling it will provide some more laymen education if necessary. As far as documentation goes: 1.) Pace is the hardware vendor -- the firmware is catered by AT&T and has plenty of documentation on specific tasks (ie: replicating a bridge mode w/DMZ since there is no "true" bridge-mode). 2.) Alas, there is not a whole lot to be learned from the GUI beyond some basic connection statistics. If there is an issue with the connection itself, it is likely that the trouble is out of your hands anyhow (given that you would only be able to order a new RG if it failed or possibly access the homerun to the modem. 3.) If you want more robust router functions (admittedly uverse RGs have gimped router firmware) you are better off using the 5031 in the aforementioned pseudo-bridge mode to a more powerful router running firmware like Open-WRT, DD-WRT or Tomato. Craigslist can be a good source for cheap second-hand consumer grade routers (be mindful of revision versions however because chipsets can change within the same model name/number preventing certain revisions from running the custom firmware). said by rtfm:Will look also for a WAN management option so I could enable, log in & do direct grabs vs clumsy remote to PC to modem.... Be sure to set a secure Device Access Code for remote management. The default system passwords on these are 10 digits with numbers only. You'd be surprised how often ports i leave open on my router get polled from random botnets with brute-force attempts. Add into this that the DHCP lease on these modems (in my experience) will basically never expire (read: dynamic IP that behaves like a single static IP). |
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rtfm join:2005-07-09 Washington, DC |
rtfm
Member
2014-Dec-27 1:49 am
said by JA :1.) Pace is the hardware vendor -- the firmware is catered by AT&T and has plenty of documentation on specific tasks (ie: replicating a bridge mode w/DMZ since there is no "true" bridge-mode). I welcome clues as to where the doc library is... [I admit I've not turned over every rock...] said by JA :Alas, there is not a whole lot to be learned from the GUI beyond some basic connection statistics. Hey, nerds love trivia! said by JA :Be sure to set a secure Device Access Code for remote management. Yes, plus it would enable only as I am using it. BTW, does it accept HTTPS? And what backdoor does ATT have into them, another open port or? |
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rtfm |
rtfm to JA
Member
2014-Dec-28 9:21 pm
to JA
said by JA :Be sure to set a secure Device Access Code for remote management. Joke's on me. I don't find a Remote Management setting on the Pace menus. That means there's no way disabling it, either. The spec sheet indicates it exists. i |
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rtfm |
rtfm
Member
2015-Jan-18 12:15 pm
Does anyone know if the 5031 delivers -48v loop voltage on its phone ports, or -24 as many such boxes do?
A customer got snookered into downgrading from POTS to VOIP, and now other things attached to the line do not function. |
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need2know to rtfm
Anon
2015-Apr-16 11:58 pm
to rtfm
Odd, on my line, the 5031NV gives approximately max download rate of ~41000kbs. (I'm on an F-card, so no reading for upstream SN margin or max rate.) Attenuation is roughly 24.1dB, atten @ 300Khz ~ 14db
On the 32M profile, SN margin is a barely passable 9.8-10.2 dB. (On the slower 25M profile, it was ~15-16dB.)
I'm surprised that going from 19 -> 24dB attenuation causes such a huge drop in max-rate (50M -> 40M.) |
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