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vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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Upgrade to Xeon 1230 or AMD 8370 for 3D rendering?

Currently I have an I5-2500K (socket 1155) with 16 mbs of memory, Windows 7 64 bit which I mostly use for 3D rendering, 3D modeling (Vue Complete, Hexagon3D, Silo3D, 3DCoat), photo editing via Photoshop & Lightroom. I also do some digital painting using ArtRage 4.5 & Corel Painter Essentials 5.

I also realize that either of the upgrades below will necessitate a mother board purchase as the Xeons are socket 1150 and the AMD AM3+. I ruled out the AMD FX-9xxx series due to 225 watt requirements.

I am doing this upgrade really do to the lengthy times it takes to render 3D scenes via Vue Complete. Presently I do my rendering on the I5-2500K and also have a AMD 8320 set up as a render node. So when I render a scene I use both the I5 & 8320.

The I5-2500K mobo & memory will not be wasted after the upgrade as an older AMD X3-710 computer will inherit the I5 and thus become one more render node.

According to E-onsoftware (publishers of Vue 3D) Vue Complete can use a maximum of 8 cores per render node.

Intel Xeon E3-1230v3 Haswell -- $279
»www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 19116906

Intel Xeon E3-1231v3 Haswell -- $309
»www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 19117316

AMD FX-8370 -- $229
»www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 19113374

Thoughts?

Cheers

Ken
vue666

vue666 (banned)

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Click for full size
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Here are some of my 3D renders & digital illustrations....

Octavean
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Very nice artwork,....

All I can give you is a fairly one sided if not slightly biased opinion about the processors. I have an Intel Sandy Bridge-E Core i7 3930K (6 core 12 threads) processor and a Haswell-E Core i7 5820K (6 cores 12 threads) processor. Both processors rip through video editing / encoding like a rabid dog with a grudge. They are great with Vertual Machines too.

So I'm thinking the Xeon would be the best choice but your use case is slightly different from my use case.

I have used Artrage and a Wacom digitizer before but not on the Core i7 systems.

Krisnatharok
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join:2009-02-11
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Your URL's are broken, you need to use the following format:

<A HREF="www.puttheurlhereexample.com">URL text here</A>
 

I am under the impression that core per core, and MHz per MHz, Intel has a sizable advantage on AMD for synthetic tasks. If you are limited to eight threads, get the Intel.

If you got a 12 core machine, can you set up a VM using the left-over four cores and use that as a rendering node? Or does the virtualization slow it down too much to make it efficient?
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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said by Krisnatharok:

Your URL's are broken, you need to use the following format:

<A HREF="www.puttheurlhereexample.com">URL text here</A>
 

I am under the impression that core per core, and MHz per MHz, Intel has a sizable advantage on AMD for synthetic tasks. If you are limited to eight threads, get the Intel.

If you got a 12 core machine, can you set up a VM using the left-over four cores and use that as a rendering node? Or does the virtualization slow it down too much to make it efficient?

Thanks I fixed my links. I believe that is what other users are doing with their 6 core (12 threads) Intel 3D rendering computers, using the other 4 cores as a virtual node.
Chrno
join:2003-12-11

Chrno

Member

From the information you provided, it sounds like Vue 3D/Complete software does not support GPU rendering? This means all rendering is done by the CPU alone?

If the above is true then you will not see that much of a performance gain by going with the E3-1200 series. The 1200s are quad core with hyperthreading which means you have 8 virtual cores. This doesn't help much in terms of performance when a physical core is required to render a block.

From a cost/performance perspective, it's quite uneconomical to go with a hexacore CPU like the 5930K at a cost of $579.99 (newegg).

Why not instead of upgrading your main machine, add additional nodes to boost the rendering performance? Unless there's a limit to the number of nodes you can add, I believe this is the best option.
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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said by Chrno:

From the information you provided, it sounds like Vue 3D/Complete software does not support GPU rendering? This means all rendering is done by the CPU alone?

That is correct unlike Blender3D only the CPU is used on current versions of Vue3D. Rumour has it future versions may support GPU.
said by Chrno:

Why not instead of upgrading your main machine, add additional nodes to boost the rendering performance? Unless there's a limit to the number of nodes you can add, I believe this is the best option.

The I5-2500K mobo & memory will not be wasted after the upgrade as an older AMD X3-710 computer will inherit the I5 and thus become one more render node.

Would an AMD cpu like the 8370 that has 8 physical cores be better then an Xeon with 4 cores & 8 threads or similar I7 (4 cores - 8 threads)...
Chrno
join:2003-12-11

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Chrno

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What I actually tried to say was instead of spending xyz on one machine that will only provide a slight performance increase, you spend xyz on two machines that will act as nodes for a greater physical core count which should give you a lot more performance.

The AMD "core" count is actually some what misleading. They have "modules" which are just cores with two integer pipelines. To the OS, these integer pipelines show as cores instead of the modules. So on a superficial level, you can think of the modules as cores with hyperthreading but with lower performance.
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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Right now I have two nodes. The I5-2500K and an FX-8320. I would like to setup the AMD X3-710 as a thread node. Since the X3-710 will inherit the I5-2500K cpu/ram/mobo from it's upgrade I am introducing a 3rd node to my rendering.
BlitzenZeus
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Actually the 8370 isn't a huge upgrade over what you have now, the fx series has used smaller cores, and those cores are not as powerful, part of why even gamers may stay away from the fx processors. Imagine the previous amd processors with less transistors, and cut those cores in half. For example the an i3, is considered better than an fx 6300.
»www.tomshardware.com/rev ··· 6-2.html
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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That's a gaming chart. We all know an I5 blows an AMD FX in gaming.

But I don't game. I do 3D modeling and rendering

Based on the 3D render forums when it comes to 3D rendering the consensus is an AMD 8370 will blow my I5-2500K out of the water. In my present set up my I5-2500K is no quicker then my FX-8320. They are very close.

However no one seems to know on the 3D forums which is better for 3D rendering the Xeon E3-1230/1231 or a FX-8370. That is my question.

Cheers and many thanks...
BlitzenZeus
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BlitzenZeus

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The point is they were comparing a six core to a dual core, so just by saying it has eight cores doesn't really mean anything when it comes to amd.
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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Most people know the majority of games can only use a maximum of 4 threads. The 3D rendering software I use can utilize a maximum of 8 threads per node.

My intent was NEVER to make this an Intel vs AMD thread or Intel is junk or AMD is crap thread.

I asked a simple question and was hoping to get a truthful reply....
Morris0
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Unless your applications are unusual and take advantage of hyperthreading those Xeons will be about the same as what you have now. The AMD processor has more cores yet for most applications much less umph. I agree go with a modern 6 core or more processor and this will cost you more. I've got a I-7 4930K 6 core with 24 GB RAM and it is incredibly fast in Photoshop and renders video at nearly 1.5 times the speed of my old quad core I-7
Chrno
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Ok, I will illustrate my point with an example. Say you are going with the Xeon path by getting a new Xeon based system to replace your current 2500K machine. The 2500K system will become a rendering node bring your node total to 3 with the main machine being the new Xeon. (2500K+8320+1230/1231)

Now say if it was possible to add 2 additional nodes for the same price you would pay for the Xeon and each of these 2 new nodes would have the core processing power similar to the 2500K. Would you rather go with the Xeon route or the 2 additional node route? With the 2 node route, you would end up with a node count of 4 while retaining your 2500K as the main machine. The 2 node route will offer you what actually matters: performance/core/price. (2500K+8320+CPU1+CPU2)

It may be a bit hard to visualize without piecing together a machine but if you have a list of parts you want for the Xeon I may be able to show you what you can do with the same budget. Just a thought.

In terms of CPU rendering, the E3-1230v3 will perform very close to the 2500K. You can see some of these cinebench numbers here:
»www.overclock.net/t/1431 ··· u-scores

These are scene renders done by using CPU only. The E3-1230v3 is very close to the 4770K so you can use the 4770K as a reference.

Krisnatharok
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said by Chrno:

the E3-1230v3 will perform very close to the 2500K

said by Chrno:

The E3-1230v3 is very close to the 4770K so you can use the 4770K as a reference.

Are you saying the 2500K is equivalent to the 4770K?
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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As you see from these tests of rendering a scene in Vue the render times between an I7-3770 and a FX-8320 (that's a 8320 and NOT a 8370) are very close.
vue666

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said by Chrno:

Ok, I will illustrate my point with an example. Say you are going with the Xeon path by getting a new Xeon based system to replace your current 2500K machine. The 2500K system will become a rendering node bring your node total to 3 with the main machine being the new Xeon. (2500K+8320+1230/1231)

Now say if it was possible to add 2 additional nodes for the same price you would pay for the Xeon and each of these 2 new nodes would have the core processing power similar to the 2500K. Would you rather go with the Xeon route or the 2 additional node route? With the 2 node route, you would end up with a node count of 4 while retaining your 2500K as the main machine. The 2 node route will offer you what actually matters: performance/core/price. (2500K+8320+CPU1+CPU2)

It may be a bit hard to visualize without piecing together a machine but if you have a list of parts you want for the Xeon I may be able to show you what you can do with the same budget. Just a thought.

In terms of CPU rendering, the E3-1230v3 will perform very close to the 2500K. You can see some of these cinebench numbers here:
»www.overclock.net/t/1431 ··· u-scores

These are scene renders done by using CPU only. The E3-1230v3 is very close to the 4770K so you can use the 4770K as a reference.

I was thinking of something like this Gigabyte mobo. The GA-H97M-D3H LGA 1150 Intel H97
»www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 13128718 $95 Canadian at Newegg.ca
Which is a desktop nonserver mobo which supports the Xeon cpu as per the Gigabyte supported CPU list at their website »www.gigabyte.com/support ··· pid=4971 This mobo uses non EEC memory. 2 sticks of 8 gb DDR3 from the supported memory list will probably cost $175 to $200.
I prefer Gigabyte or Asrock mobos, both of whom have plenty of desktop mobos that support the Xeon.

Xeon E3-1231v3 Haswell $299
»www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 19117316

The Haswell is about $80 more then a FX-8370. An AM3+ socket Gigabyte mobo will cost about the same as the socket 1150.

Cost for the Xeon build about $574. For the AMD about $500.

For video I will use my existing GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB card. I have a few older nVidia cards from prior upgrades that I can use in the render node that inherits the I5-2500K.
Chrno
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Chrno

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Ok, so with my line of reasoning, the alternative option would be to get:
FX-8320 (125w) 159.99 * 2 = 319.98 OR the FX-8320E (95w) @ 169.99 ea
GA-78LMT-USB3 62.99 * 2 = 125.98
F3-12800CL9S-4GBXL 39.99 * 2 = 79.98

Because these will be nodes, external VGA is not required as onboard graphics should be enough. Prices were pulled from newegg.ca. Maybe a bit cheaper if you hunt around. With this setup, you will end up with +2 nodes with a total core count of 16. If the node rendering can scale 100% without efficiency lost, this will give you a lot more performance than the Xeon. These won't require a case, you can mount them on a piece of plywood and put them on a PVC pipe rack (DIY). The limit for this setup would be the number of nodes the software can support. If the number of nodes is unlimited, you can scale up by adding more nodes creating your own small rendering farm.
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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said by Chrno:

Ok, so with my line of reasoning, the alternative option would be to get:
FX-8320 (125w) 159.99 * 2 = 319.98 OR the FX-8320E (95w) @ 169.99 ea
GA-78LMT-USB3 62.99 * 2 = 125.98
F3-12800CL9S-4GBXL 39.99 * 2 = 79.98

Because these will be nodes, external VGA is not required as onboard graphics should be enough. Prices were pulled from newegg.ca. Maybe a bit cheaper if you hunt around. With this setup, you will end up with +2 nodes with a total core count of 16. If the node rendering can scale 100% without efficiency lost, this will give you a lot more performance than the Xeon. These won't require a case, you can mount them on a piece of plywood and put them on a PVC pipe rack (DIY). The limit for this setup would be the number of nodes the software can support. If the number of nodes is unlimited, you can scale up by adding more nodes creating your own small rendering farm.

Wow...you present a very plausible and pleasing suggestion. Of course I'll require a couple of PSUs. My preference is for Corsair or Antec. Cheers and many thanks...
Chrno
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Chrno

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The power draw on the nodes will be very minimal. I am guessing around 150w under full load. So something like this should be more than enough: »www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 17371045
vue666 (banned)
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vue666 (banned)

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For those who maybe interested from the e-onsoftware site (publishers of Vue 3D)...
quote:
»www.e-onsoftware.com/pro ··· /?page=5

Note: Vue Complete 2014 installed on a multi-core CPU computer will use a maximum of respectively 4/8 CPUs on 32/64 bit OS.


vue666

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said by Chrno:

The power draw on the nodes will be very minimal. I am guessing around 150w under full load. So something like this should be more than enough: »www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· 17371045

I'll also have to factor in two purchases of Windows 7 (or Windows 8) and two hard drives, plus the two power supplies. At first this sounded rather attractive but I think I'm back to my original plan. Build a Xeon or FX-8370 as a replacement for the I5 2500k and there by passing the I5 done to my AMD X3-710 making it another render node. When I factor in all the other hidden costs (powersupplies, hard drives, Windows purchases) it'll be cheaper to upgrade the I5.

Now back to my original query....which would be better for 3D rendering (and NOT gaming), the AMD or Xeon? Which would be a better upgrade in 3D rendering performance over my current I5.

looking at my chart I posted earlier the AMD FX 8320 is pretty even with the I7-3770 in Vue rendering.

Anand Tech has a chart comparing CPUs for 3D rendering. There is no Xeon E3-123x or FX-8370 on the chart. However the FX-8350 is just below the I7-2600K and slightly above the I5-4690K...

»www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/345
vue666

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Another site benchmarking the various cpus for 3D rendering....

»www.guru3d.com/articles_ ··· ,11.html

As can be seen the 8 core AMDs are not that bad at all...
vue666

vue666 (banned)

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I purchased a Gigabyte GA-H97-D3H socket 1150 and 16 gbs (2 x8gb) of G.Skill Ripsaw X series from Newegg.

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Pr ··· -128-712

For Christmas I received two gift certificates totally $100 at Futureshop, so I purchased the I7-4770S. Everything went together fine. Did a test render using the FX-AM8320, I5-1500K and the I7-4770S and render times are fast...