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swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

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swintec to maartena

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to maartena

Re: [TV] Time Warner Price Increase 2015

said by maartena:

Why should I have to pay $30 for the channels I may want to watch.... AND $20 for sports I don't want to watch?

Maybe it is as fair as the person only wanting the sports paying $30 for the channels you want to watch but they dont?

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena

Premium Member

said by swintec:

said by maartena:

Why should I have to pay $30 for the channels I may want to watch.... AND $20 for sports I don't want to watch?

Maybe it is as fair as the person only wanting the sports paying $30 for the channels you want to watch but they dont?

And that is exactly why sports should be a separate package. And it should be selectable as an ONLY package, for those who only want to watch sports.

Right now, we have NO choice, and it is time we get to have some choices.

Unbundled
But When ? ?
Premium Member
join:2010-09-13
Irving, TX
Technicolor E31T2V1

Unbundled to kilrathi

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to kilrathi
said by kilrathi:

Time Warner really needs to consider allowing customers choosing WHAT CHANNELS THEY WANT TO PAY FOR when paying for cable tv.

TWC, CC, and the others will consider that when the FCC (The Govt./Congress) forces them AND the content suppliers to break up the bundling model of distribution. Ma Bell was broken up. This bundling model can be scrapped. 'Can be' is the operative phrase.

I doubt it will be, because America is becoming more and more run by the hidden hand of corporations. That's not "silly talk", but the REALITY of the present world you, and the rest of us now live in.

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

Premium Member

They should make a new plan for subscribers to pick channels. Keep the old one for those who want to stick with it. Make more options!

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena

Premium Member

said by antdude:

They should make a new plan for subscribers to pick channels. Keep the old one for those who want to stick with it. Make more options!

My thinking is.... that if a-la-carte really is too cumbersome, they should come up with a middle ground compromise:

1) start with a BASIC package, which contains nothing more then the broadcast networks (and the sub channels of those broadcast networks, perhaps). This is your cable subscription. (And perhaps, just because those networks actually PAY the cable company, instead of the other way around, you will also get the shopping networks and religious channels)

2) then, add packages of your choice in sets of 5-10 channels, perhaps themed to certain interests. News, Children, Home/Garden, Science, Nature etc, etc.

3) Sports should be divided into 2 packages. One that has the local sports teams and some of the big nationals such as ESPN and NBC Sports, and one that has the more "niche" channels such as Universal Sports, Soccer channels (BeIN, etc), Speed, Tennis Channel etc. You should be able to select one without the other. Avid soccer fans might opt for only sports package #2 and get the international soccer. (and maybe get MLS Direct Kick if TWC carries that)

Not everyone wants to pay for sports, not everyone wants to have 8 childrens channels or home/garden/food channels either. You should be able to select just the bare basic package, and then add ONLY sports channels, or ONLY a few selected themed packages, completely tailor the cable package to your liking.

You would still have packages, but at least you won't always be forced into large bundles of channels, or forced to pay for expensive sports when you don't want to. (such as having to pay for the broadcast rights of 7 professional sports teams in the LA market, just to have some good other channels).

Freedom of choice. That is how it should be.

OpTiC
Premium Member
join:2014-03-08
West Covina, CA

1 recommendation

OpTiC to antdude

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to antdude
Same like dish do something like dish offer a $20 plan with broadcast and channels from standard tv using iptv from the TWC tv app.

Suit Up
join:2003-07-21
Los Angeles, CA
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X
TP-Link Archer C7

Suit Up to maartena

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to maartena
said by maartena:

Speed

Speed no longer exists. It became Fox Sports 1. Fox Sports 1 is not gonna be happy to be on some esoteric sports content package (and I say that as a soccer fan, who would be one subscribing to that package).
said by maartena:

MLS Direct Kick

MLS Direct Kick also no longer exists. MLS's new TV deal starting for the next season has MLS's out of market programming being delivered by ESPN3/WatchESPN (so no more MLS Live option for the cord cutters either).

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin to maartena

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to maartena
"3) Sports should be divided into 2 packages. One that has the local sports teams and some of the big nationals such as ESPN and NBC Sports, and one that has the more "niche" channels such as Universal Sports, Soccer channels (BeIN, etc), Speed, Tennis Channel etc. You should be able to select one without the other. Avid soccer fans might opt for only sports package #2 and get the international soccer. (and maybe get MLS Direct Kick if TWC carries that)"

Avid Soccer fans would need both of course as the two biggest competitions (Premier and Champions league) are shown on NBC Sports and Fox sports. Speed channel no longer exists.

What would you do with channels like TBS and TNT that have a lot of Sports related programming?
said by maartena:

Freedom of choice. That is how it should be.

I went to Mcdonalds this morning and asked for an egg, when the girl asked why I said I don't want to pay for an expensive sausage and that greatly overpriced bun. She declined to let me have my freedom of choice.

Hob

UKEE
join:2012-05-14
Lexington, KY

UKEE

Member

said by hobgoblin:

I went to Mcdonalds this morning and asked for an egg, when the girl asked why I said I don't want to pay for an expensive sausage and that greatly overpriced bun. She declined to let me have my freedom of choice.

Hob

]

OT: You can order sides of eggs at McDonalds if you want. I've ordered sides of gravy and sides of eggs many times. Strange that you can't do it there.

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin

Premium Member

said by UKEE:

OT: You can order sides of eggs at McDonalds if you want. I've ordered sides of gravy and sides of eggs many times. Strange that you can't do it there.

Gravy? No Gravy here! I didn't want a side of eggs I just wanted an egg. No coffee, just an egg to go. no deal. They would have added an egg to sausage and rolls and even cheese. But I wanted my freedom of choice!

Hob

UKEE
join:2012-05-14
Lexington, KY

UKEE

Member

A side of eggs is just that. An egg in a small container. Same with gravy. I have the freedom of choice here!!!

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin

Premium Member

said by UKEE:

A side of eggs is just that. An egg in a small container. Same with gravy. I have the freedom of choice here!!!

Sounds fantastic. Maybe I will force the issue tomorrow. What does an egg cost you?

Hob

UKEE
join:2012-05-14
Lexington, KY

UKEE

Member

Side order of gravy is $0.80
Side order of eggs is $1.10

Freedom of choice!!!! Power to the People!!!!

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin

Premium Member

said by UKEE:

Side order of gravy is $0.80
Side order of eggs is $1.10

Freedom of choice!!!! Power to the People!!!!

Sounds like a fantastic profit margin. A dozen eggs cost about $2 and they want $1.10 for one?

I guess buying channels one by one may end up the same way, less for more.

Hob

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

said by hobgoblin:

said by UKEE:

Side order of gravy is $0.80
Side order of eggs is $1.10

Freedom of choice!!!! Power to the People!!!!

Sounds like a fantastic profit margin. A dozen eggs cost about $2 and they want $1.10 for one?

I guess buying channels one by one may end up the same way, less for more.

Hob

But you have CHOICE. In Canada they ended up giving the people the choice between a package, and adding/removing individual channels. And depending on what you want, it could actually be cheaper, or more expensive. I can't imagine that if I wanted a mini-package of around 15 channels, I would actually be paying MORE then a all sports included forced package deal. In any case, you still have the CHOICE to take on a package deal like always, but at least you do have the ability to choose.

Bottom line: There is choice.

Seems you guys in Buffalo have a rather old fashioned idea of what customer service and choice really means. A McDonalds that doesn't even want to sell you just an egg? Really? No wonder you are so strong in your "must comply to the package" mindset.

OpTiC
Premium Member
join:2014-03-08
West Covina, CA

OpTiC

Premium Member

That is not a option from Rogers. I looked it up on their website. If TWC can let you choose which channels I want I will be saving $20.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena to hobgoblin

Premium Member

to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin:

Avid Soccer fans would need both of course as the two biggest competitions (Premier and Champions league) are shown on NBC Sports and Fox sports. Speed channel no longer exists.

What would you do with channels like TBS and TNT that have a lot of Sports related programming?

I seem to have lost my previous post, so I will type it again. If it appears double some where, my apologies.

There will always be overlap. MLS is shown on major channels, football is shown on broadcast networks, and TBS and TNT show NBA playoffs.

Regarding the last 2 channels, they belong in some form of entertainment package. They do show basketball indeed, and there has to be some flexibility for hybrid channels. I am sure a company can come up with something flexible. I would probably pick TNT for Law & Order reruns and whatnot, and accept they have sports, just like I would accept the broadcast networks.

I went to Mcdonalds this morning and asked for an egg, when the girl asked why I said I don't want to pay for an expensive sausage and that greatly overpriced bun. She declined to let me have my freedom of choice.

Hob

I have a different experience. On a road trip through Michigan some years back we stopped in a town and McDonalds was one of the few choices to get a quick bite to eat. We went in, and my elderly aunt has a gluten intolerance so I asked for JUST AN EGG, basically the egg portion of the egg McMuffin, and the girl at the counter said: No problem, and said she will go ahead and charge me $1 instead of the regular price of $2.75 or so for the egg McMuffin. (Thinking about it much later, she may have just charged me the price of a side of eggs, but I went in with that I wanted an egg mcMuffin without the muffin. ) - She even was friendly enough to ask if I wanted pepper and salt packages for the road, as we were leaving again.

See if a business has flexibility and customer service, they will have return customers. If they are not flexible and/or move with the time, they will be left behind.

The only reason a cable company doesn't have to be flexible, is because they have a rather convenient monopoly in many places, and can offer deals on internet and voice combinations. That, and of course the media companies that hold them hostage, and force the packages of often useless channels upon them, channels that didn't even EXIST 10 years ago when digital TV really made its mark.

Flexibility. Freedom of Choice. That is what it is all about. And on that note, and since you are comparing it to McDonalds: When I order a meal, I can build it ANY WAY I want. Supersize drink with small fries? No problem. Small drink with Supersize fries? No problem. A Big Mac without lettuce BUT with double cheese? No problem. A Big Mac with CHICKEN patties instead? Yes, even that can be done and exists on the "secret" menu as a Big McChicken. They pretty much let you build your menu any way you choose, any way you like.

To prove a freedom of choice point: You can EVEN have a hamburger built with the middle-bun style of a big mac with a fish filet, a chicken patty and a hamburger patty on the SAME burger. Bet you didn't know that.

By the way, you never answered to me whether you thought it was FAIR that someone in the Los Angeles market will have to pay for the broadcast rights of SEVEN pro sports teams. Some as high as $4 per channel, totalling up to around $20-$25 for sports if you also take into account UCS/UCLA on PAC12, ESPN, and the other national sports broadcasters. Maybe even more then $25 when you add it all up. That means someone who doesn't like sports has to plop down around $300 a year when he wants channels other then sports. Is that really fair?

That's like wanting a Big Mac, and being told it comes with a Fish Filet and a McChicken as well, and you have to pay for all three.
maartena

maartena to OpTiC

Premium Member

to OpTiC
said by OpTiC :

That is not a option from Rogers. I looked it up on their website. If TWC can let you choose which channels I want I will be saving $20.

Cogeco does, but then I am familiar with my aunt's address in Ontario, so I could plop it in their website.

OpTiC
Premium Member
join:2014-03-08
West Covina, CA

OpTiC

Premium Member

My son has Rogers and he told me that a long time ago.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

said by OpTiC :

My son has Rogers and he told me that a long time ago.

How long ago? Because a-la-carte wasn't really introduced till last year, 2014.

Unbundled
But When ? ?
Premium Member
join:2010-09-13
Irving, TX
Technicolor E31T2V1

Unbundled to maartena

Premium Member

to maartena
said by maartena:

start with a BASIC package, which contains nothing more then the broadcast networks (and the sub channels of those broadcast networks, perhaps). This is your cable subscription. (And perhaps, just because those networks actually PAY the cable company, instead of the other way around, you will also get the shopping networks and religious channels)

People on fixed incomes in some high rise apartments (facing ---away-- from the TV towers, for example), simply want to be able to see the local news and weather, and watch all of the wonderful stuff the broadcast networks program. That should be made at a very affordable price, or, the Govt. needs to provide "coupons" for power indoor antennas to try and get those channels.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

maartena

Premium Member

said by Unbundled:

said by maartena:

start with a BASIC package, which contains nothing more then the broadcast networks (and the sub channels of those broadcast networks, perhaps). This is your cable subscription. (And perhaps, just because those networks actually PAY the cable company, instead of the other way around, you will also get the shopping networks and religious channels)

People on fixed incomes in some high rise apartments (facing ---away-- from the TV towers, for example), simply want to be able to see the local news and weather, and watch all of the wonderful stuff the broadcast networks program. That should be made at a very affordable price, or, the Govt. needs to provide "coupons" for power indoor antennas to try and get those channels.

People on fixed incomes such as retirements and social security are really going to be screwed by things like having to pay for SEVEN pro sports teams broadcast rights (in Los Angeles market) just to get channels like CNN, The Weather Channel, HGTV, Food Network. Hobgoblin seems to think that is fair though.

Re: broadcast networks, yep those not being able to get them through an antenna, will have to pay money for them PLUS this "broadcast surcharge fee" on top of it. The sneaky thing about that is that they don't have to advertise that fee. They can still advertise with "$29.95 basic cable package" as they did 2 years ago..... and when the first bill comes all over sudden there is a sports surcharge tacked on, a broadcast surcharge tacked on, some regulatory recovery fee that is pure bull, and possibly other fees they don't disclose.

Every try to ask on the phone when you are signing up for something: "What is the number I am going to see on my monthly bill at the bottom?" - they won't tell you. Or they can't because the fees are so complicated per county/city/hoa that they just can't figure it out themselves anymore.

Customer: Hello, I'd like a Big Mac please.
McDonalds: Sure! That will be $17.38 please.
Customer: What, wait, why that much?
McDonalds: The Big Mac is part of the "Elite Burger Package" that includes a McChicken, a Fish Filet, 10 Chicken McNuggets, 2 cheeseburgers, and a discounted McRib. It also includes a "fish surcharge fee", and a "beef inspection fee". BUT it's a great deal because we'll throw in a free drink!!

Customer: ..... and since you are one of 3 restaurants in town and the other 2 have the same package deals.... I have to pay all that just to get one Big Mac.
McDonalds: Yes sir. Oh by the way, while you are using... or should I say consuming our "Elite Burger Package", there is a $5 lease fee for the tray and a $2 lease fee for the cup that free drink comes in.
McDonalds: But think about it sir, if you were to individually choose all those items, your total would much more expensive! We are saving you a lot of money!
Customer: But.... I just want a Big Mac!

And yeah, although the McDonalds in buffalo apparently doesn't do "just an egg", this is more or less what cable packages, and freedom of choice means with subscription television, whether it be cable, satellite, or u-verse/fios based. There is no choice, and people on low/fixed incomes won't be able to un-bundle expensive sports to get a few normal channels like the ones mentioned above.

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin

Premium Member

said by maartena:

People on fixed incomes such as retirements and social security are really going to be screwed by things like having to pay for SEVEN pro sports teams broadcast rights (in Los Angeles market) just to get channels like CNN, The Weather Channel, HGTV, Food Network. Hobgoblin seems to think that is fair though.

I dont think I have ever said its fair or unfair, it is just the way it is. You are well aware that the networks hold that key by bundling the channels and insisting what tiers they belong in.

It may not be fair that the broadcast networks moved from a "must carry" status to a position where they could charge and continue to increase those charges every contact renewal and take away access to the cable, dish and telco companies and ultimately the customers when they don't get what they want.

As many know I am from England and 15 years ago when I arrived in the states I was very surprised that taxes for goods were not shown on the price tag in the store. In England if something has a price tag of 100 Pounds then it is 100 pounds. Not 117 and whatever.
said by maartena:

Every try to ask on the phone when you are signing up for something: "What is the number I am going to see on my monthly bill at the bottom?" - they won't tell you. Or they can't because the fees are so complicated per county/city/hoa that they just can't figure it out themselves anymore.

Listening to interactions with customers every day I hear people explaining the cost of a monthly bill all the time. Yes it is fairly complicated due to local franchise fees etc.

Your Mcdonalds analogy was well thought out and amusing. If the Burger, Chicken and Potato companies got together and decided what could be sold with what that's probably is what would happen. Lets say Mcdonalds then tried to negotiate the details of their contract and then the companies all refused to sell them any product that would be a more accurate reflection of what is going on.

Obviously there are other Food producers but not in the TV industry, there is no alternate ESPN to watch the College Football Game tomorrow.

Finally I think there is a Basic TV package in all areas that will give customers access to the major Broadcast Networks and the public Access Channels at a reasonable price. Granted it does not have CNN, HGTV etc but it does give someone on a fixed income access to Broadcast Networks thus boycotting paying for how ever many sports franchises you happen to have in your local area.

Hob

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

said by hobgoblin:

I dont think I have ever said its fair or unfair, it is just the way it is. You are well aware that the networks hold that key by bundling the channels and insisting what tiers they belong in.

I don't believe that is the whole story though. If the cable companies did not have at least a little bit of interest in the situation staying status quo, they would have protested against bundling a long time ago, when digital television came around in the early 2000s, and media companies started launching channels left and right.

Furthermore, I asked you whether you thought it was fair, but you never really answered on that, so based on previous comments on sports being mandatory bundled, I assumed you did think it was fair that someone wanting channels like CNN, HGTV, Food Network, and Weather Channel.... MUST also pay for the broadcast rights of seven pro sports teams in this market.

I personally think that is not fair. I wasn't asking if that is "the way it is", I was asking your opinion on the matter.

It may not be fair that the broadcast networks moved from a "must carry" status to a position where they could charge and continue to increase those charges every contact renewal and take away access to the cable, dish and telco companies and ultimately the customers when they don't get what they want.

They get away with it because the cable companies aren't losing customers. Both the media companies and the cable companies want to tightly control access to media and channels. Whether it is through bundling channels together, or not allowing you to drop expensive sports channels.

As many know I am from England and 15 years ago when I arrived in the states I was very surprised that taxes for goods were not shown on the price tag in the store. In England if something has a price tag of 100 Pounds then it is 100 pounds. Not 117 and whatever.

Yep I was surprised about the same thing as I came from the Netherlands. I found out why rather quickly, sales taxes can vary by city, county, state, and in some cases even by season. In the past, every time a tax change happened, they had to manually input the change in every cash register. Nowadays with everything programmed in computers, it happens automatically by making one central change weeks ahead of time that tells all registers to start charging the new tax. The sales tax does change from time to time, and as I said, in some areas it's seasonal, and tax is only charged in e.g. the ski season.

The main reason to do it that way is that they would constantly be changing out all the prices in the store every 6 months or year when local politics gets a hair in their butt, or a local natural disaster triggers a temporary sales tax raise to pay for the damage for 1 year, etc.

Neither the Netherlands or England have the political system that would allow these kinds of changes. VAT is added for the whole country, it is the same everywhere, and is raised once every 5-10 years or so.
said by ]
Listening to interactions with customers every day I hear people explaining the cost of a monthly bill all the time. Yes it is fairly complicated due to local franchise fees etc.
[/bquote :

It shouldn't have to be that complicated though, and I still hear left and right from people that have asked how much it is going to cost, that they are told a different (usually lower) number then when their first bill comes... it doesn't surprise me you hear people explaining the bills because they probably got sticker-shocked when they got their first bill. If you ask Amazon on the phone how much a product is going to be at the very bottom line, including all the shipping and taxes, they simply ask you for your address. You give it to them, they punch it in, and out rolls the exact total. Every city may have a different sales tax, some have temporary (e.g. 6 months only) sales tax increases due to earthquake damage or something like that, and the city issued a decree to increase taxes temporary, etc, etc... shipping, of course is different depending on the distance and what type of shipping they prefer. They punch in the address. Out comes a number.

It does not take a genius to design a program that does that. Click all the packages a customer wants. Click how many receivers they want. Punch in their address, and the computer will give you the EXACT number. After all: If the BILLING computers can generate the bill, customer service is CERTAINLY capable of accessing the same information, and ensuring the customer who is signing up with them gets the EXACT number before they sign up.

Your Mcdonalds analogy was well thought out and amusing. If the Burger, Chicken and Potato companies got together and decided what could be sold with what that's probably is what would happen. Lets say Mcdonalds then tried to negotiate the details of their contract and then the companies all refused to sell them any product that would be a more accurate reflection of what is going on.

Obviously there are other Food producers but not in the TV industry, there is no alternate ESPN to watch the College Football Game tomorrow.

I know that the big media companies are to blame in the long run, as indeed as you say, they force it on the cable companies. But if the cable companies didn't have at least some interest in the situation being as it is, they would have protested a long time ago.

When the Comcast/TWC merger will happen, I believe the merged company will own more or less around 40% of subscription television customers. I could be off a little, but even 30% would be an enormous leverage. ComcastTWC would be able to say NO to bundling, and media companies will have no choice to listen. Because losing 30% of their audience in a dispute will hurt a HELL OF A LOT more then just losing Dish which has been happening recently.

Question is: Do they WANT to? My guess is the cable companies are just as conveniently happy about the bundles as the media companies are.

Unbundled
But When ? ?
Premium Member
join:2010-09-13
Irving, TX
Technicolor E31T2V1

2 edits

Unbundled to hobgoblin

Premium Member

to hobgoblin

Re: [TV] Time Warner Price Increase 2015 vs. Sling TV

said by hobgoblin:

Obviously there are other Food producers but not in the TV industry, there is no alternate ESPN to watch the College Football Game tomorrow.

You may, or may not already know about Sling TV Internet TV, but I just heard about this yesterday:

Dish's new Sling TV Internet TV service starts at $20/Month, features ESPN, Disney Channel, CNN, TNT, and other channels

»www.cnet.com/news/dish-l ··· -disney/

The service is scheduled to be available in the coming weeks -- no exact launch date was given -- on an impressive array of Internet-connected devices, including Xbox One , Roku media streamers, PCs, Amazon Fire TV and Fire TV Stick, and iOS and Android smartphones and tablets.

"Millennials don't choose paid TV," said Roger Lynch, who was named CEO of Sling TV LLC. "So we designed a service based on how millennials consume content, with no contracts. You can come and go as you please."

Lynch said that users can pay for a month at a time and that the theme for Sling TV's marketing and advertising campaign would be "Take Back TV."

"Watch anytime, anywhere on your TV, tablet, phone or computer."

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin

Premium Member

said by Unbundled:

You may, or may not already know about Sling TV Internet TV, but I just heard about this yesterday:

Dish's new Sling TV Internet TV service starts at $20/Month, features ESPN, Disney Channel, CNN, TNT, and other channels

Yeah I knew about it, even though its not available at this time. No networks, and one stream for $20. If I want to watch ESPN and my partner wants to watch CNN at the same time its $40. If my grandchild want to put on Disney I have to shut off the Football or pay another $20!

Its good for single people without that problem although it will be interesting to see how it evolves.

Hob
hobgoblin

2 edits

hobgoblin to maartena

Premium Member

to maartena

Re: [TV] Time Warner Price Increase 2015

"I don't believe that is the whole story though. If the cable companies did not have at least a little bit of interest in the situation staying status quo, they would have protested against bundling a long time ago, when digital television came around in the early 2000s, and media companies started launching channels left and right."

What was happening in the industry in the early 2000s has little to do with what is happening now.

"Furthermore, I asked you whether you thought it was fair, but you never really answered on that, so based on previous comments on sports being mandatory bundled, I assumed you did think it was fair that someone wanting channels like CNN, HGTV, Food Network, and Weather Channel.... MUST also pay for the broadcast rights of seven pro sports teams in this market."

I think in an ideal world I could call in and say "I want one CNN, One Weather Channel, One Ducks Channel and a couple of cooking things"
"Thank You Sir, that will be $18" (Or whatever the price is). However we all know that the cost of individual channels is whatever tier they are in. Moving them from that Tier would mean the price would increase and at some point a smaller bundle of channels would cost as much as what the cost is or the whole package. I can't comment on whether its fair or not. We have an all you can eat place on the East Coast, don't know if you have it but its called Golden Corral. You walk in and there is a fantastic choice of food to be had. All kinds of meat, Fish, salads, breads, deserts that you can help yourself too. The reason its cheap is it caters to the tastes of everyone. Sure you could say "I dont eat that expensive shrimp so why should I pay the same as the guy over there who just ate seven plates" but at the end of the day while you are subsidizing his shrimp, he is helping out you with your penchant for the chocolate fountain.
said by maartena:

it doesn't surprise me you hear people explaining the bills because they probably got sticker-shocked when they got their first bill.

Actually, unfortunately people do not understand a pro rate bill despite it being explained to them at the point of sale. The first Bill includes the next month of service plus whatever part of the month they happen to start the service in.
said by maartena:

When the Comcast/TWC merger will happen, I believe the merged company will own more or less around 40% of subscription television customers. I could be off a little, but even 30% would be an enormous leverage.

A 30% customer base would mean that 70% belongs to another company. While I understand why there is little cable competition in areas there is huge competition from the Telcos and the Satellite companies. Lets say ComcastTWC decided to take on ABC head to head and lost ABC and ESPN etc as has happened with networks in the past. I am sure you would support this decision but how many others would? To achieve something like this all providers would have to be on the same page which causes all sorts of legal issues. Not an expert but I have heard of the word collusion.
said by maartena:

Neither the Netherlands or England have the political system that would allow these kinds of changes. VAT is added for the whole country, it is the same everywhere, and is raised once every 5-10 years or so.

This makes perfect sense, maybe the USA should adopt our system!

Hob

cousintim
join:2004-10-10
Dallas, TX

cousintim

Member

said by hobgoblin:

there is huge competition from the Telcos and the Satellite companies.

Like from AT&T and DirecTV...oh, wait.

hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium Member
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY

hobgoblin

Premium Member

said by cousintim:

said by hobgoblin:

there is huge competition from the Telcos and the Satellite companies.

Like from AT&T and DirecTV...oh, wait.

and Dish and FIOS yes!

Hob

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena to hobgoblin

Premium Member

to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin:

I think in an ideal world I could call in and say "I want one CNN, One Weather Channel, One Ducks Channel and a couple of cooking things"
"Thank You Sir, that will be $18" (Or whatever the price is). However we all know that the cost of individual channels is whatever tier they are in. Moving them from that Tier would mean the price would increase and at some point a smaller bundle of channels would cost as much as what the cost is or the whole package. I can't comment on whether its fair or not. We have an all you can eat place on the East Coast, don't know if you have it but its called Golden Corral. You walk in and there is a fantastic choice of food to be had. All kinds of meat, Fish, salads, breads, deserts that you can help yourself too. The reason its cheap is it caters to the tastes of everyone. Sure you could say "I dont eat that expensive shrimp so why should I pay the same as the guy over there who just ate seven plates" but at the end of the day while you are subsidizing his shrimp, he is helping out you with your penchant for the chocolate fountain.

I am familiar with Golden Corral. With my family in Michigan and Ontario (who cross the border frequently) that restaurant is quite adept known as "The Pig Trough", based on how the people that visit the place usually eat. :D

There is, however, a BIG difference between your Golden Corral analogy, compared to TWC doing business. When Golden Corral is faced with higher priced from their food suppliers, or faced with government regulations that cost them more money.... they simply raise the price. A notice will be posted in restaurants saying: "Due to the rising costs of food and doing business, our $11.99 buffet price will costs $12.99 starting Jan. 1st."

TWC doesn't do that. They keep advertising the same price for their cable package, and when customers sign up, then they tell them they also have to pay an extra "broadcast fee", an extra "sports surcharge", and fees like the "regulatory recovery fee" and the "franchise fee".

Those things should just be part of the cost of business. If you need to raise the price, then raise the price, don't keep the price somewhat the same (or raise it by a small amount) and then add fee after fee after fee after fee.

If you go to Golden Corral, and you order a $12.99 buffet, and they hand you the bill... (I know you pay when you walk in) and it looks like this:

Buffet:............................. $12.99
Beef Surcharge...................... $0.49
Deep Fryer Oil Recycle Fee.......... $0.69
Shrimp Import Fee................... $0.35
Electricity Surcharge............... $0.25
Dish Washing Fee.................... $0.89
-------------------------
TOTAL............................... $15.66
 

You would be scratching your head too. :D

Thing is.... the "all you can eat buffets" are dying out. People are making smart choices, eating better, and they want better choices. There are restaurants out there that don't do buffet for $12.99, but serve you up a really good hamburger for $8 or a really good plate of fish tacos for $9. Of course you can also get a really good sirloin steak for $22.

Now, in the restaurant business it is a lot easier to compete. There used to be several dozen buffet style restaurants, there's just a few left. Some have been bought by each other. Even the Chinese restaurants are stepping away from the buffets in recent years. This is because there are many new options, many new choices, and even smaller towns now have restaurants that offer more choice then the traditional diner, buffet, and hamburger joint.

In the cable world, of course, there is no competition. Sure, there is satellite, and if you are really lucky you can have exactly 4 choices: Dish, DirecTV, Cable, and Telco based television, all of which pull the same package trick, none of which are standing up to the media companies and are held hostage by them.

The video subscribers in total have been in decline for years now. Sure, U-Verse and FIOS still add customers, but this is because they are new to areas, and are stealing away customers. At the end of the day though, total video customers have been declining since the mid-2000s, and although from 2007-2011 it was really easy to just blame it on the economy, the reality is that 2014 has been one of the BEST economic years in the last decade, posting stable growth (STABLE growth, not dotcom bubble type growth) for the year. The economy is growing. Yet those who have dumped cable because they couldn't afford it 5 years ago.... aren't coming back.

The media companies, eventually, won't care. If they start thinking wisely and sell more and more to on-demand companies, they will get their viewers as well. The cable companies however, SHOULD care but don't. They think they can continue on the same trend for years to come. And even though they blame the media companies for holding them hostage and letting them decide which channels need to go in which package, if they know what is good for them, and what the customer eventually is going to want, it is time for big players like TWC (and Comcast, DirecTV, etc) to REALLY say NO, and say: If you want to be on our system, WE determine HOW, not you. If the customers want to pay for your channels, you will get a fat check at the end of the year with an amount per user/channel sold, if they don't want to pay for those channels, then those channels aren't economically feasible.

I am sure that if you have a chocolate-fountain restaurant ONLY, you aren't going to make it either in the restaurant competition.

I believe in free market. PROPER free market, not Capitalist Cartel Forming, which is what Cable and Media companies currently are.