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TGAllan
Anon
2014-Dec-26 6:40 pm
[Electrical] Arc Fault Breaker Continues to TripJust built a new house, have arc fault receptacles in the bedrooms. One of the arc fault breakers keeps tripping. Initially when installed, there was no indication at the breaker there was a problem (i.e. yellow arc fault light did not come on). A few hours later, checked the panel and the breaker had tripped. When I reset the breaker, this time, after have been tripped, the yellow arc fault light came on immediately when reset but after about 5 seconds went off, and the breaker did not trip at this time, but again after several hours did trip. There are no loads on the bedroom in question, I have checked connections at the panel and have pulled out all receptacles in the bedroom in question, checked the connections at the receptacles and do not see any visible problem. Have changed out the arc fault breaker but it does exactly the same thing to a new breaker. Does anyone have a suggestion I can follow up on??? |
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John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
What brand of AFCI? |
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LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA
1 recommendation |
to TGAllan
Have the electrician come fix it...
My initial guess? An over-driven staple or overtighted clamp. |
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John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp
1 recommendation |
said by LazMan: An over-driven staple... Or a sheetrock screw/nail. Not going to be fun to find that! |
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to John Galt6
Sieman |
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John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
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nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO ·Charter
2 recommendations |
to TGAllan
said by TGAllan :Just built a new house This should be covered by builders warranty. Newer Siemens AFCI breakers have a "smart" feature that will tell you why they tripped.
- Trip indicators provide a valuable analysis tool to help electricians pinpoint the type of trip. The LED indications will appear for 5 seconds each time the AFCI is turned ON up to 30 days after the last trip. One LED will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault. Two LEDs will be illuminated if the last trip was a result of an arcing fault to ground. No indication will be displayed if the AFCI trips as a result of an overcurrent condition. This last known trip indication can also be cleared from memory to assist with verifying resolution of the problem.
The fact that you swapped the breaker and it is still tripping is a good sign that you have an actual fault or overcurrent, and the breaker is simply doing it's job. Based on the light, it's an arc fault. The biggest cause of "false" tripping I see is the use of backstab receptacles. I put "false" in quotes, because there is an actual arc fault, it's just small. The easy fix is using the screws instead of the backstab. AFCI gets the same bad rap as GFCI. People tend to "shoot the messenger". It's tripping, therefore the device must be bad. In reality, it's working as designed - it's simply a symptom of the true problem. Long story short - new house - this isn't your problem. It's the builders. Call them and tell them to send a licensed electrician to fix it. It might be to the benefit of you and the builder to bring in a skilled troubleshooter vs. a residential construction electrician. Most resi construction guys cannot troubleshoot their way out of a wet paper sack. |
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TGAllan
Anon
2014-Dec-27 6:03 am
Thanks for your detailed and helpful response. |
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to John Galt6
said by John Galt6:said by LazMan: An over-driven staple... Or a sheetrock screw/nail. Not going to be fun to find that! That's why you put metal plates over where the wires run through the stubs around the inside corners to..like mine did. if that's the case. Currently building me one tile going in Monday... then Cabinets/wood flooring.both espresso color |
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3 recommendations |
Newhouzezz
Anon
2014-Dec-28 11:38 am
Thanks for the helpful reply. Everyone in this thread was wondering what YOU were doing. Especially the cabinet colours, great contribution! |
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John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp |
to Termites
That doesn't stop the electrician from over-driving the staple... |
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to TGAllan
My guess is false tripping due to induction from another circuit running in parallel. Bad connection can be easily checked by plugging in a lamp with an *INCANDESCENT* 75-100W bulb in all outlets, if there is a problem the flicker will be obvious. However I'm willing to bet my money on noise from another circuit (bathroom fan, light switch, fridge, dimmer). CFL and LED lights are major sources of electrical noise which can cause a false positive. A staple or clamp would not cause this, if it ever shorted the circuit the flash would either fuse the wires permanently and cause an instant trip or it would vaporize the connection. |
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TGAllan
Anon
2014-Dec-28 3:23 pm
Thanks for your input, but in this instance, only the bedroom plugs are on the circuit, no lights, fans, etc. Further, I have checked each plug for polarity, etc. with a tester and no issues are noted. I could try the lamp suggestion in each of the plugs to see if there was an obvious issue.... |
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Why are you messing with it? Let the builder/builder's electrician fix it. |
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TGAllan
Anon
2014-Dec-28 3:45 pm
I am the builder. |
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said by TGAllan :I am the builder. In that case, I would suggest you get your electrician on it. Long story short here, an experienced troubleshooter is going to get this done a ton quicker, and with a lot less disruption. |
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StillLearn Premium Member join:2002-03-21 Streamwood, IL |
to TGAllan
I would pull the hot wire off of the breaker. I would try to detect any continuity to ground from the loose wire with your most sensitive ohmmeter. A megger would be a more sensitive test, but most don't have one. If you see any continuity, break the wire into segments between boxes until you find the partial-short. |
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nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO |
to TGAllan
said by TGAllan :I am the builder. Call the electrician that wired the place. |
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to TGAllan
said by TGAllan :only the bedroom plugs are on the circuit, no lights, fans, etc. The source of noise can be another circuit if the wires are next to each other for enough distance. Again, dimmers and CFL/LED lights are massive sources of electrical noise. I can reliably trip a certain GFCI by switching on/off a fan that is on a different nearby circuit. |
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