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nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

2 recommendations

nunya

MVM

[HSI] Upload

Since Charter has decided to make semi-annual price increases the norm, I'd like to see them make some semi-annual increases in the value of the services they provide.
The 100 Mbps D/L is nice. Overkill for most of us.
Let's talk about this pitiful 4 Mbps upload. When is this going to change? There's no technological "hold back" any more. Let's get the show on the road.
cqarlo932
join:2010-07-06

1 edit

cqarlo932

Member

said by nunya:

Since Charter has decided to make semi-annual price increases the norm, I'd like to see them make some semi-annual increases in the value of the services they provide.
The 100 Mbps D/L is nice. Overkill for most of us.
Let's talk about this pitiful 4 Mbps upload. When is this going to change? There's no technological "hold back" any more. Let's get the show on the road.

I would be very very very very happy to have 4 Mbps down in this Northern Nevada Charter area and we pay $54.99 for dialup like speed. Charter says we have broadband service the same as everyone in their service area. They are the only game in town with no competition.
NO COMPETITION=NO SPEED,NO SERVICE,HIGH PRICES.

neofate
Caveat Depascor
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Birmingham, AL

1 edit

neofate

Premium Member

said by cqarlo932:

I would be very very very very happy to have 4 Mbps down in this Northern Nevada Charter area and we pay $54.99 for dialup like speed. Charter says we have broadband service the same as everyone in their service area. They are the only game in town with no competition.

And Google Fiber customers would similarly be dissapointed with a drop from their 1000 DL / 1000Mbps Upload service that is cheaper than the Ultra 100Mbps service charter has with it's 5Mbps upload..

Google's fiber 1000/1000 service is $70 a month. They give 5/1 service for free.. Obviously it's not expanded much so far.. but eventually they will give us the much needed CHEAP competition and force Charter to back off it's pricing (maybe 10ish years?)

Here's the map:




Nunya,.. there are tech limitations on Upload.. Upload is just 1 channel for me.. while download has 8 bonded channels.

The good news is there are 4 UL channels ready to be taken advantage of even with 3.0 DOCSIS.. but they have to upgrade the equipment to get the UL bonding going -- which will then allow for CONSIDERABLE UL speeds.

Right now on 1 channel the theoretical maximum is (Technically 30.72.. but in reality 10Mbps is what Charter can push on 1 channel).. but with overhead and saturation.. going above that would be a nightmare for users.

That said.. even a bump of 1Mbps would be welcome on the upload... and I think they will do it everywhere within the next year or two.. Now that they've done the big project of getting everyone off analog.

The monopoly factor is huge.. it's here as well -- as ATT is no competition even with their UVERSE speeds.. DSL just can't come close to Cable speeds. Verizon didn't expand into enough markets .. So google with it's insane capital reserves is the only hope I have of a company coming in over the next decade and breaking this monopoly.

We'll see!

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958 to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
Could not agree with you anymore than I already am, nunya!

As neofate states, even with only 1 channel on the upload, that can be upgraded anytime they choose, even if it is only to 5 or 6Mbps. At least it would be something to make us feel all warm and fuzzy given that you KNOW a price increase will be coming within the next 3 months, if they're on the same schedule as usual!

AnonDude
@97.95.147.x

AnonDude to nunya

Anon

to nunya
said by nunya:

Since Charter has decided to make semi-annual price increases the norm, I'd like to see them make some semi-annual increases in the value of the services they provide.
The 100 Mbps D/L is nice. Overkill for most of us.
Let's talk about this pitiful 4 Mbps upload. When is this going to change? There's no technological "hold back" any more. Let's get the show on the road.

A bit hyperbolic. The $2 increase I'm getting is the first price change in 2 1/2 years and that was a price reduction. The $52 I'm paying is still cheaper than the $58 the same tier cost prior to June 2012 and back then it was 18 Mbps not 60 Mbps. I fact still cheaper than the $55 it was when the tier was first created 8 years ago when it was 10 Mbps. Consider yourself lucky you're not one of us getting moved to Comcast where 50 Mbps will cost $77.

defiant
Former Charter lackey
join:2013-03-22
Monroe, MI
ARRIS TM1602
Asus RT-AC68
Netgear WNDR3700v4

defiant to nunya

Member

to nunya
One of the big challenges of upstream bonding is ensuring the upstream spectrum is free of noise and ingress. Also, having the appropriate monitoring equipment to isolate sources of said impairments. Charter has some catching up to do in this area - they are able to monitor the upstream SNR at the various upstream ports on their CMTSs, but (and this is an educated-guess on my part) don't have the ability to monitor (remotely, in realtime) segments of the coax plant for ingress and noise.

It's not a matter of technology for Charter, it's a matter of money. Much of their effort has been, post-bankruptcy, has been to upgrade backhaul capacity andredundancy, interconnections, and DOCSIS 3 CMTS upgrades.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

All bonding talk aside, Charter isn't even fully utilizing a single upload channel. They forced everyone over to their modems. by charging for them whether you wanted it or not. So now that the modems have full docsis 3 capability, we are still sitting on an underutilized single channel of upload.

As far as price increases, this is my second within a year (50 to 55, 55 to 60, a 20% increase total) - and I haven't been on a promo or bundle in years. Charter can take their overpriced and underwhelming TV and Phone service and stick it.

AnonDude
@97.95.147.x

AnonDude

Anon

said by nunya:

All bonding talk aside, Charter isn't even fully utilizing a single upload channel. They forced everyone over to their modems. by charging for them whether you wanted it or not. So now that the modems have full docsis 3 capability, we are still sitting on an underutilized single channel of upload.

A) Modems are free

B) You can use your own so it doesn't matter.

As far as price increases, this is my second within a year (50 to 55, 55 to 60, a 20% increase total) - and I haven't been on a promo or bundle in years. Charter can take their overpriced and underwhelming TV and Phone service and stick it.

Once again Comcast?( which nearly 40% if us will be switched to ) charges $77 for 50 Meg and $67 for 25 Mbps. And they charge you $8 for using their modem on top of that. So really you're comparing about Charter's pricing? Please show me another ISP that offers this speed at such a low price as Charter?

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

said by AnonDude :

A) Modems are free

There's no free lunch. Which part of my bill is the free part? Please let me know.
said by AnonDude :

Once again Comcast?( which nearly 40% if us will be switched to ) charges $77 for 50 Meg and $67 for 25 Mbps. And they charge you $8 for using their modem on top of that. So really you're comparing about Charter's pricing? Please show me another ISP that offers this speed at such a low price as Charter?

I really do not give a rats ass about Comcast or their prices. Like my mom used to say, "If all of your friends jumped off of a cliff, would you?".

neofate
Caveat Depascor
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Birmingham, AL

neofate to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
No they aren't fulling using the upload channel,.. but they aren't holding back on it just to be "mean"... If they had the capacity to easily push it up for all customers they would do it.

They already run 6-7Mbps upload for Business HSI contracts on the same networks our residential fiber HFC nodes exist on... So with time they will bump it.

However, their interest is in making money, and the money isn't in the Ultra tier,.. and it isn't in increasing upload. The majority of the internet users don't need more than a couple of megabits for all of their purposes.. and the majority of their customers are on the cheapest plan (which is now defaulted to the 60mbps service for most places).

So you have to look at it from a business perspective , and not what is possible.

I , too, want more upload .. I use a great deal of upload. If someone absolutely needs more than what they have now,.. in many places you can switch to Business HSI and increase the upload speed by 20-30%.. ie: 1-2Mbps more depending on the infrastructure.

Then of course once they start the phase to enable quad bonding on the Tx from the CMTS uBR's upload speeds will/should dramatically increase. How far away that is, is a mystery.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

2 edits

1 recommendation

cork1958 to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

Like my mom used to say, "If all of your friends jumped off of a cliff, would you?".

My mom always used to say if your friends went out and played in the street and got hit by a car, would you?

Man, can you tell bf69 is back?
Who gives a crap about Comcast, or any other cable company, when almost no one has a choice of cable providers anyway? If you're getting stuck with switching to them, then again, that's another issue with not having any competition, so that's what this will all boil down to again is the lack of.

Jaybonaut
join:2012-05-29
Sheboygan, WI

Jaybonaut to nunya

Member

to nunya
The upload limits directly affect me as a Youtube content creator and Twitch streamer. It is a constant pain in the ass. I've made numerous posts about this irritation.

If they pumped it up to 8 or 10 I would be perfectly happy - and I would trade download speed for it easily.
mj3431
join:2003-04-21
STL, MO

mj3431

Member

If they bumped the upload to 10Mbps on a single channel for all users you would then see plant saturation on the upstream, which would affect performance for ALL users on a node because ACK packets would not be able to return in a timely fashion. The upload speed is simply a technical limitation combined with them playing it safe. The fix isn't just "flipping a switch".

Simply increasing the download speeds places an increased burden on the upstream just because of the additional packets that have to acknowledged. I don't blame them for not increasing upload prior to deploying upstream bonding. That's a pretty bold move that could bring normally operating nodes to a crawl just from a few streaming users such as yourself.

Recap: 30Mbps per upstream channel on a node. At 10Mbps upload, 3 heavy uploaders could bring an entire node to a crawl (200-400 home) = not good....hence the current low upload. Plant upgrades are expensive, node splits are expensive, and Charter is still recovering from bankruptcy. Given the facts, I think they're doing a decent job deploying digital services and plant upgrades as it is.

Yes, other providers such as Comcast already have upstream boding in place, but then again their 50Mbps package is in the $70/mo range. If Charter gave 10Mbps upload but increased the package to $70/mo people here would throw fits worse than kids, namely many who already complain about the price and lack of choices, yet wouldn't go to the Telco due to the lack of "value".
mj3431

mj3431 to nunya

Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

All bonding talk aside, Charter isn't even fully utilizing a single upload channel.

This is pure speculation unless you have access to node utilization statistics to back up your claim. It is ONE upstream channel shared for all users on a node, often several hundred homes.

Most markets today (except for STL) have 60Mbps on the download across 16 active plant channels. That would be a distribution of only 3.75Mbps per channel allocated. So providing 4Mbps on a single upload channel doesn't seem far fetched to me. That doesn't even take into consideration that the 16 DS channels are balanced as most modems being deployed only support 8 DS channels. This effectively eliminates the chance that 2-4 users could saturate the entire DS spectrum (in addition to more plant bandwidth per DS channel). This is a much greater risk on the US side.
said by nunya:

There's no free lunch.

Hence the rate increase for additional DS bandwidth and digital plant upgrades. Expect another hike when you get your wish for US bonding, likely in 2015...because as you say there's no free lunch.

neofate
Caveat Depascor
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Birmingham, AL

neofate to nunya

Premium Member

to nunya
Bottom line is we all want, and many of US need increased upload speeds. I am one of them.

However, unless you know a great deal of how Cable infrastructure works it's very easy to simply speculate that since the potential according to DOCSIS 3.0 on a single channel = 30+ Mbps.. that Charter is holding back when they can do much more with their single Tx channel.

As I've said once or twice.. The infrastructure in the CMTS (around the states) and elsewhere is not in place yet for Tx bonding. This will be required before they significantly bump UL speeds.

They CAN bump upload speeds from say 5 to 6 if they wanted to give Ultra a little bonus.. but much more than that will cause issues across the board.

With the double speed increase and making the lowest tier 60/4 and half the cost of the ultra 100/5 tier they have really made the 100/5 tier a bad value for the money.

That said.. I need the extra 1Mbps upload.. the extra 40Mbps download not so much. As others have said, I'd happily trade 10Mbps per 1Mbps of upload increase (more perhaps) .. but it simply doesn't work that way.

It will be upped in time.. but charter is slow in everything they do. I'm sure it's on the drawing board,.. but how far out the plan is.. only they know.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya to mj3431

MVM

to mj3431
said by mj3431:

If Charter gave 10Mbps upload but increased the package to $70/mo people here would throw fits worse than kids, namely many who already complain about the price and lack of choices, yet wouldn't go to the Telco due to the lack of "value".

The only thing Charter has accomplished is being "less horrible" than CenturyTel... Wooo, there's an accomplishment! I'll bet Tommy and the boys are in a big conga circle to pat themselves on the back for that one.

Back to my original post - Charter has raised my bill 20% in a span of less than a year, yet offered nothing of value to me to make up for it.
A "free" modem? Whoopee! I'd rather provide my own and save some money.

I'm glad you mentioned bankruptcy. Charters indebtedness is one of the key reasons they suck so much. Even after emerging from bankruptcy protection, they keep slipping into debt. Their answer to poor management is rate increases, yet they don't want to add any VAS to justify it.
Instead of looking at the way they do business from the inside, they punish their customers on the outside.
Congrats to Charter for being "slightly less worse" than the competition. That's something to really be proud of.
cqarlo932
join:2010-07-06

1 edit

cqarlo932 to AnonDude

Member

to AnonDude
said by AnonDude :

said by nunya:

All bonding talk aside, Charter isn't even fully utilizing a single upload channel. They forced everyone over to their modems. by charging for them whether you wanted it or not. So now that the modems have full docsis 3 capability, we are still sitting on an underutilized single channel of upload.

A) Modems are free

B) You can use your own so it doesn't matter.

As far as price increases, this is my second within a year (50 to 55, 55 to 60, a 20% increase total) - and I haven't been on a promo or bundle in years. Charter can take their overpriced and underwhelming TV and Phone service and stick it.

Once again Comcast?( which nearly 40% if us will be switched to ) charges $77 for 50 Meg and $67 for 25 Mbps. And they charge you $8 for using their modem on top of that. So really you're comparing about Charter's pricing? Please show me another ISP that offers this speed at such a low price as Charter?

Please show me another ISP that offers dialup speeds at broadband prices? Charter and Comcast buys up Mom and Pop ISP's for peanuts uses the same 20year old equipment and tells its customers they have broadband speeds like everyone else. I'm tired of hearing how Comcast will get 40% of us to get the honor of a big price increase.

howardfine
join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

howardfine to nunya

Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

Charter has raised my bill 20% in a span of less than a year, yet offered nothing of value to me to make up for it.

When I lived in your area, @nunya, I paid something like $85/month for Charter for 10Mb downloads and was thrilled to death compared to what ATT offered. Now I'm paying $55/month for 100Mb downloads just three years later. Vastly different than what you are claiming.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO

nunya

MVM

I *WISH* AT&T was an option here. Check your bill. That $55 is soon going to be $60.

wtfdude
@104.207.136.x

wtfdude to cork1958

Anon

to cork1958
constant complaints pushing for lower tiers and now this?

AnonDude
@97.95.147.x

AnonDude to nunya

Anon

to nunya
said by nunya:

There's no free lunch. Which part of my bill is the free part? Please let me know.

Well let's see prior to June 2012, 30 meg using your own modem was $58. Now it's $52 for 60 meg with the modem. So if the modem isn't free Charter DRASTICALLY lowered the price of your internet. Why are you complaining about that? Funny how you fail to mention the drastically lower internet part. Ok how about Charter lets people using their own modems pay the old $58 BYOM price? Would that please you since the cost of the modem would not longer be baked into the price?

Old modem rental price was $7 so then subtract that from $52 and your internet is $45 which is $13 cheaper than it was 2 1/2 years ago. 30 meg with modem rental used to be $65 now it's $52. Once again $13 cheaper. How many other ways shall I show you that you're paying LESS? Not to mention getting DOUBLE the speed. You're the first person I've seen wanting to pay the old $58 price just to not have to "pay" for a modem.
said by AnonDude :

I really do not give a rats ass about Comcast or their prices. Like my mom used to say, "If all of your friends jumped off of a cliff, would you?".

3 out of every 8 current Charter customers will be switched to Comcast once the FCC approves the Comcast/TWC merger. So Comcast pricing does in fact matter to a great deal many people here.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

Wrong. And, why should we believe some anonymous dude who wont even register with this site? You just keep pulling wild numbers out of nowhere.
It was $39.99 (non-promo), plus $5 "because we can" penalty for not having cable.
Then they raised the "because we can" penalty to $10. Then they raised the the price to $45 + $10 "because we can" penalty. Ooooooh, they threw in a "free" modem. Wow, I'll bet this high quality item hanging on my wall cost them a whopping $25, if that.
Now another $5 "insult to injury" fee. For what? There's a point when you have to ask, how much download are you really using? I notice no difference between 30 and 100. I do notice the slow upload. Especially when I'm trying to VPN.
mj3431
join:2003-04-21
STL, MO

mj3431

Member

said by nunya:

Now another $5 "insult to injury" fee. For what? There's a point when you have to ask, how much download are you really using? I notice no difference between 30 and 100. I do notice the slow upload. Especially when I'm trying to VPN.

Quite frankly you answered your own question. Along with the download increases have come backbone upgrades across the nation in the last several years.

In case you don't remember there was a time when Charter didn't have a national backbone and congestion was far worse than the issues reported today. Those upgrades to infrastructure don't come cheap. Charter consistently ranks in the top five on the Netflix ISP index and has managed to do so without direct peering.

Additionally, you've stated that 10Mbps from your local Telco is $70/mo, which you're not willing to pay because it is a terrible value, yet you want Charter to give you less bandwidth at what, their cost? Even if you COULD get AT&T you act like they're any better, providing only 18Mbps for $59.95, non-promo. For the same $55 you give Charter, AT&T would give you the privilege of 12Mbps (and a data cap to boot).

The only way you would save money by switching to the Telco is by moving to a much slower package, likely sub 12Mbps even with AT&T. Heck they'll give you a whopping 3Mbps for $46.

Now I agree that it would be nice if Charter offered 2-3 tiers like they did previously, but not if it means they'll take a page from the (insert provider here) play book. It could mean that new tiers are 50/100/150 but they start at $55/mo. So be careful what you wish for and see my paragraph above regarding the competition's pricing.

So I ask, do you want to save money or get the best value? There's a clear winner here and if $10/mo will make you bankrupt then I suggest a re-evaluation of priorities should be considered.

Personally I'm more concerned with the POCO going after their 6th rate hike in 8 years. They're spending money like it's going out of style. At least with Charter I'm getting something in return.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

The at&t prices you are quoting are ridiculous. I know people getting 24 for $30.
I don't care about how Charter spends the money I pay them. That's not my problem. I do care that my bill keeps going up, up, up, up and I'm getting nothing of value in return. Even in this piss poor Obama economy, inflation isn't THAT high.

God forbid you post anything negative about Charter here in the Charter Fan Club Internet Forum.

I have a right to tell it like it is. If Charter wants to keep hiking rates, they need to justify it with better service or more options (or both).

AnonDude
@97.95.147.x

AnonDude to nunya

Anon

to nunya
said by nunya:

Wrong. And, why should we believe some anonymous dude who wont even register with this site? You just keep pulling wild numbers out of nowhere.
It was $39.99 (non-promo), plus $5 "because we can" penalty for not having cable.
Then they raised the "because we can" penalty to $10. Then they raised the the price to $45 + $10 "because we can" penalty. Ooooooh, they threw in a "free" modem. Wow, I'll bet this high quality item hanging on my wall cost them a whopping $25, if that.
Now another $5 "insult to injury" fee. For what? There's a point when you have to ask, how much download are you really using? I notice no difference between 30 and 100. I do notice the slow upload. Especially when I'm trying to VPN.

besides the fact I have a good memory I keep my old bills. 30 meg WAS in fact $58 modem rental was in fact $7.

This from when I was on old pricing getting a promo

Internet Service 47.99
Internet Base $19.99 12m -28.00
Internet Plus Upgrade 10.00

$48 + $10=$58. I am not making number up or pulling them out of my ass just because you disagree with them. Where is YOUR proof I'm wrong besides you just saying so.
AnonDude

AnonDude to nunya

Anon

to nunya
said by nunya:

The at&t prices you are quoting are ridiculous.

They are FACT and from the at&t website. Your friends are probably getting a promo price. I guess you'll find out the hard way. I'm not even sure why you would even think I would go out of my way to make things up. Especially when fake numbers could easily be dismissed by using this invention call the internet.
mj3431
join:2003-04-21
STL, MO

mj3431 to nunya

Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

The at&t prices you are quoting are ridiculous. I know people getting 24 for $30. I don't care about how Charter spends the money I pay them. That's not my problem. I do care that my bill keeps going up, up, up, up and I'm getting nothing of value in return.

The prices I quoted are the standard rates, just like the standard rates you always post for Charter. I know people getting Charter for $40 on a promo rate, but I'm sure you don't want to hear about that.

Yes, you can tell it like it is, but you certainly don't like hearing it like it is from the other side. You appear to only like facts when they're in your court. The facts are that there have been massive improvements to Charter's infrastructure and offerings under the current leadership whether you care to admit it or not.

The ironic thing is that you started the thread complaining about the "slow" upload speed and then talk about moving to the Telco if you could, but even they only provide 1-2Mbps upload! I guess some people just like to complain about whatever they can. After all, nobody is FORCING you to be a Charter customer.

If you were just outside of Charter's service area and had to fork over $70/mo to Centurylink for 10Mbps you'd be here telling a different story... I suppose you could always start your own ISP and do it better for less.

AnonDudeTrue
@72.14.178.x

AnonDudeTrue to AnonDude

Anon

to AnonDude
The real fact about you is that EVERYTHING you post is in defense of Charter. It is unclear what kind of investment you have in Charter and why you continually have to defend them at all costs. Because you do so, ALL the time, your posts are more likely to be take with a grain of salt and be seen as less credible. That is the simple real truth.
System

to nunya

Anon

to nunya
This topic has been closed. Reason: run its course