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IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Big difference in auto insurance cost

I went to my auto insurance agent to drop collision and comp on the Dodge Stratus as the renewal through Commerce Insurance jumped to $2500 for the year and it was going to be $215.31 a month with just 3 surcharge points. I found out they started writing for Arbella insurance so I had them quote me with the same coverages and it came to about $1500 for the year. Then I dropped collision and comp but increased property damage from 100 to 250 (in thousands) and my premium came to $987 for the year. This is with 100/300 bi and under/uninsured motorist and 0 pip deductible.

Why is there such a gap in cost between the two companies. I did tell the truth. It was the same agent for the old company and the new.

BTW, they can't use credit rating in Mass or other factor like marriage but they can use city/town where the car is garaged. And Springfield ain't cheap to insure a car.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Metronet

CylonRed

MVM

Agent does not matter - it is what the company is charging that matters. The differences can be many and no way to know the exact difference. It could be the company that is cheaper - their customer service may be trash and make it hell to get them to pay out.

The cost is only part of the equation when changing the insurance company.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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I've been through that with Plymouth Rock when I've been hit by their insurered twice. One was the door opener and the other was a rear ender.

I had a pickup that had a clean break in its frame from being rear ended and I discovered it 9 months later. They claimed it was rust. Rust is usually a jagged break and this was a clean break on the side their insured hit me on. I was rear ended while making a turn so that's how I know.

Plymouth Rock vigorously defends their insureds. Others like Progressive will gladly cave in and send you a notice of surcharge.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Metronet

CylonRed

MVM

I had to threaten to sue Progressive to get any movement on a claim I had with one of their drivers. This was back in the mid-late 90's so maybe it is different now. I had a rental car for 2 months because of their driver and they only offered me the 3 weeks it took to fix the car - about $900 compared to the $2K I spent.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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That's why I'm glad we're a no fault state when it comes to bodily injury. You go to the ER/doctor and your insurance pays for your injuries and then they subrogate the loss off the at-fault driver after fault is determined. I wish it was that way with property damage, want your car fixed buy collision coverage and file with your own insurance and they recover off the car that hit you. No-fault collision coverage would make things much easier, it would get your car fixed a heck of a lot faster too. It would be basically fix first ask questions later if that were the case.

I was hit by a drunk driver and was forced to use public transportation. Had to take the train home and then take the bus until I could replace the car.

nonameins
@69.118.94.x

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said by IowaCowboy:

Why is there such a gap in cost between the two companies. I did tell the truth. It was the same agent for the old company and the new.

Why would you not ask the agent that... seems like if anyone is going to know it would be that person.

Service is likely the reason. As well as ease of payout, and the fact that you have some like no name insurance company. Why in the world you would have collision/comp on that thing is just... crazy.

Get a in a wreck from geico, allstate, progessive etc... we see an adjuster who looks at the car.

Theres a car around back now with some no name company... the car is totaled, we know it, even the owners know the thing is done. No adjuster, it's going to a body shop AND the people were SHOCKED to know it can go anywhere they want... ya, company failed to mention that little part...

I bet you they were cheaper...
billydunwood
join:2008-04-23
united state

1 recommendation

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We had Mercury, who is generally the cheaper of big insurance companies(and one of the worst insurance companies as well). For 3 of us, teenage driver and 3 seperate cars with full coverage, it was close to 5k a year. We had 1 quote with Geico and they wanted $2800 for the year. I was so happy to call my Mercury Agent and tell her we will never do business with your company again....until my wife and I got hit by 2 seperaate Mercury clients months later.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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The thing about Massachusetts is with all the regulations on insurance that many insurance companies (particularly the big ones like State Farm do not write insurance here or will service existing policies only before they fled the commonwealth). One of the good regulations is insurers cannot use credit scores in auto insurance or non driving factors like marital status or income level. They also cannot give preferential treatment to men or women. They also cannot refuse insurance because someone lives in a certain city/town (I live in a high risk city).

The state also used to set rates for auto insurance and many insurers fled the state. Now they semi deregulated the market and a few major players have come (Geico, Progressive, Allstate) but we still don't have the amount of insurers we'd have if we had full deregulation. It's also the tort friendly atmosphere that probably drives many insurers away (high risk market).
IowaCowboy

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

Arbella is a dominant carrier in Mass and has done business here before deregulation.

The exceptions and exemptions would usually be in the optional coverages. Most of my coverage is the compulsory coverage so those terms are set by insurance regulations. The only optional coverage I have is underinsured and higher bodily injury limits. I also have higher property damage.

My insurance agent is AAA Pioneer Valley Auto Club so they're respectable. I'd be iffy buying insurance from a fly-by-night agent in a bad neighborhood as they may sell the no name companies or they may sell bare bones insurance that will leave YOU paying the bill in an accident.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

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My agent said one reason the carrier he put me with has better rates (lower premiums for equal coverage) than some of the other, well-known companies is because they don't spend big money on commercials, actors/actresses who "represent" them in commercials, college football bowl games, and so on....

One of the large, well-known carriers used to, and may still, allow you to input your information online and input what you want to pay for coverage and they'd create a policy that fits your criteria (within reason, I have to presume). That's all well and good as long as you don't have a claim !

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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said by Hall:

My agent said one reason the carrier he put me with has better rates (lower premiums for equal coverage) than some of the other, well-known companies is because they don't spend big money on commercials, actors/actresses who "represent" them in commercials, college football bowl games, and so on....

One of the large, well-known carriers used to, and may still, allow you to input your information online and input what you want to pay for coverage and they'd create a policy that fits your criteria (within reason, I have to presume). That's all well and good as long as you don't have a claim !

My old carrier (Commerce Insurance) is the biggest underwriter of insurance in Mass so you're probably paying for advertising/sponsorship of the big league sports in Boston (Red Sox and New England Patriots). Advertising panels on the big green monster don't come cheap.

nightdesigns
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join:2002-05-31
AZ

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I had mercury for a number of years and then wwas hit with a large increase (like 30%) for no reason. Talked with my independent agent who said lots of his mercury customers were also hit. Switched over to MetLife which ended up even less for the same coverage. Both my wife and I have had accident claims with them and it was easy going (1 at fault, 1 not and no insurance) and rates barely changed.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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Mercury must be a regional insurer because I've never heard of them. Probably like most of you have never heard of Commerce or Arbella, which are local to Mass/New England.
wth
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join:2002-02-20
Iowa City,IA

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My former auto/home insurance (MetLife) even wanted to know where are 2 cars were going to be parked: on the street, in the driveway, or in the garage. Rates were lowest in the garage.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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said by wth:

My former auto/home insurance (MetLife) even wanted to know where are 2 cars were going to be parked: on the street, in the driveway, or in the garage. Rates were lowest in the garage.

That would be if you had comp/collision on the car. I just got liability only. That may change if grandma ever follows through and buys me a brand new car. I was discussing that today with the insurance agent and she said the brand I'm looking at (Ford) is on the lower end of the premium scale on comp/collision to insure when brand new. She said premiums are based on VIN number.
tcope
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join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

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Price difference can be for many reasons. Some carriers may offer lower rates in order to get into a certain market. That market may be an area but it may also be an age market or even just the auto market. One thing that may happen is that they may be offering a lower rate only to jack it up each year. Increases need to be approved but it happens all of the time.

One question I had is why 100/250k PD? That seems _very_ high. If someone else is driving a $70,000 vehicle then they probably carry their own collision coverage. As such, their carrier is going to accept your limits and sign a release. Someone would be very hard pressed to find an attorney to take a property damage case. It's not like an injury case. While 5k PD is just stupid low (ie CA), I'd check the price difference for something lower then 100/250. But perhaps it's a very small difference.

And yes, it should be illegal in _all_ states to base insurance rates on credit scores. They are not directly rated to risk.
tcope

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said by IowaCowboy:

I wish it was that way with property damage, want your car fixed buy collision coverage and file with your own insurance and they recover off the car that hit you. No-fault collision coverage would make things much easier, it would get your car fixed a heck of a lot faster too. It would be basically fix first ask questions later if that were the case.

That _is_ how it works. If you have collision coverage you can either file with the at fault carrier direct or file under your collision. If under collision, your carrier pays for the repairs and subrogates against the other carrier.

For no-fault/P.I.P. it makes more sense if the carriers cannot subrogate. In the long wrong its the same cost as every carrier pays their own and no one else. If subrogation is allowed the PIP carrier then needs to waste time/effort/money to collect from the at fault carrier.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

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$8 difference for 250k PD vs 100k PD and if they do have collision in Massachusetts the insurer has right of subrogation which means that they can go ahead and pay the collision claim on their insured and then go after the PD coverage of the at-fault driver. And in Massachusetts if the insurance does not cover all of a PD loss, you can have your license suspended until you can cough up the cash to pay the loss even if you're judgement proof.
IowaCowboy

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And some cars can be very expensive to hit, I've seen those Teslas driving in Boston. Total one of those and you're looking at an $80,000 loss. Makes me glad I didn't cut corners on insurance. Or hit an RV, not cheap.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

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said by IowaCowboy:

$8 difference for 250k PD vs 100k PD

I kind of figured that was the reason you'd take the higher limits.
said by IowaCowboy:

and if they do have collision in Massachusetts the insurer has right of subrogation which means that they can go ahead and pay the collision claim on their insured and then go after the PD coverage of the at-fault driver. And in Massachusetts if the insurance does not cover all of a PD loss, you can have your license suspended until you can cough up the cash to pay the loss even if you're judgement proof.

The short of it is that the at fault carrier would offer up the policy limits and require that a release be signed. That payment includes the damaged parties deductible and out of pocket expenses. So the damaged party is made whole which equals no suspension.

A settlement is a settlement... it means that both parties agrees that the payment settled all responsibility.

If a person's liability limit is not high enough, the damaged person can elect not to accept it (their carrier would, though). The damaged person would then need to file suit. The other person's carrier would offer a defense. At the end of the day if the damaged person won more then the insurance limits then the carrier would still only pay the limits and the damaged person could feel free to pursue the judgement. Usually the person with the judgement against them simply drives without a license and insurance at that point and nothing is paid on the judgement. But that does not mean a judgement should not be pursued... only that it might be better to just take the liability limits and call it a day (which is why people need to consider having collision coverage).
tcope

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said by IowaCowboy:

And some cars can be very expensive to hit, I've seen those Teslas driving in Boston. Total one of those and you're looking at an $80,000 loss. Makes me glad I didn't cut corners on insurance. Or hit an RV, not cheap.

But usually those people have collision coverage. So as long as the at fault person has some liability coverage the other carrier almost always just settles for those limits.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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There's plenty of other things you can destroy with a car; storefronts are commonly taken out, houses bulldozed, and yes a traffic light here at Main and Union Street here in Springfield was knocked offline as the control box was hit by a car. I'm sure the city is going to demand money off the auto insurer so taxpayers won't have to pay. Not to mention utility poles, bus shelters, traffic signs, etc.

There is an intersection near my house that before they put up the four way stop that the fences on the lawns were getting taken out about every week. And there were crashes about once every two days and a couple of fatalities.

Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV

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said by IowaCowboy:

And some cars can be very expensive to hit, I've seen those Teslas driving in Boston. Total one of those and you're looking at an $80,000 loss. Makes me glad I didn't cut corners on insurance. Or hit an RV, not cheap.

Out here in Vegas, you have Tesla, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Lamborghini, Etc. You name it, you will find it here. But the common person here carries the low limits, if any at all. People of the exotic cars tend to have good coverage to cover their cars for under/uninsured motorists. Because they know they won't get squat usually from the at fault party.

IowaCowboy
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

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Another good coverage to have is uninsured and underinsured. Considering many of the drivers here they are uninsured. Many of the hit and runs around here are involving uninsured drivers.

Underinsured is good as the $20,000 per person minimum doesn't do you squat when you have to spend a month in the hospital ICU and then rehab afterwards. I know someone who was in a major accident back in 1998, sent him to the ICU but he was at fault. He is still having medical complications 16 years later.

How the bill got paid I don't know.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

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said by tcope:

Some carriers may offer lower rates in order to get into a certain market...One thing that may happen is that they may be offering a lower rate only to jack it up each year.

An adjuster for American Family told me that years ago. They (AmFam) had entered the Ohio market (seems as though the states have to approve them to some degree?) and had excellent rates. He said after they're in the state for a few years, they raise the rates on everyone, across the board, just because they can.

Grumpy4
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join:2001-07-28
NW CT

4 edits

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Some random thoughts from my days as a fleet insurance guy. Forgive the obvious ones, but perhaps some new drivers may benefit.

Shopping for all types of insurance is indeed a great idea. I frequently encounter those who think the prices are fixed by state for various carriers. Not true. Some carriers are very aggressive in low pricing when trying to capture a market segment. Others bug out or high price quote when their actuaries tell them to, like Travelers did out of CT.

Prices are according to state law, location, and the profile of the potential insured. Asking for price advice online and getting multi state / multi demographic responses is usually a very large waste of time. Just one for instance, the price for the same vehicle and individual with the same insurance carrier will vary greatly if we're comparing Newark, NJ to say, Ovid, MI. HUGE difference.

Bundling homeowners, life, and auto can yield huge savings.

Pricing an umbrella piece on any of your liability packages is well worth a look. Long trips can mean drowsy = huge claim. Once the limits of your coverage are reached, your insurance carrier closes their checkbook, and your personal assets are often taken to pay a claim.

Even when you are not at-fault, the chances of being made whole again are slim to none. Law suits are often required to shore up the difference, but the suit must successfully include attorney's fees if made whole is the goal.

I have had very good luck with the Allstate derivative Essurance. I can see all my coverage options and add and subtract pieces online with the pricing shown before committing to the addition / deletion. I've never had a claim with them, but hopefully they're at least reasonable in response. I would hope that being under the wings of Allstate means something, but maybe not.

ALL your claims, at-fault or not, are recorded at CLUE
»www.privacyrights.org/cl ··· size-you
So to think you will save by a new carrier who doesn't know of your claim history - doubtful at best.

I called in a question to my carrier regarding a $0 claim. It ended up on my CLUE report. We wonder why so many fear introducing any claims of any type to their carrier - there is the why. I know sometimes we must report, but...\

Again to the obvious - it is well worth our while to fully understand our coverage, regardless of the type. Many brick and mortar auto agents will produce the very lowest cost policy to you, without any explanations of what is and isn't covered. They apparently think that all you are interested in is price, and that well could be true, but again - a thorough understanding via a sit down with the agent is a very good idea. For instance - our homeowners as provided by a world known major carrier was lacking in various areas that I only discovered by a phone inquiry. At the time (ten or more years ago) the home computers were not covered. For an additional $64 per year, I added all peril no questions coverage for all the computers, including daughter's away from home school lap top. My wife has an antique engagement ring - also not covered at that time. This was one carrier at one location for one home - your policy could very well be much different than that, so to tell me "My [whatever] was included in my policy etc." really has no bearing on the above.

Another tip - video record your home showing all your goodies, clothes and what have you, indoors and out. It really doesn't take very long to do. To put a copy of said video in an off premises safe deposit box can save a universe worth of troubles in the event of a whole house loss. I know first hand of a couple who couldn't prove their post house fire belongings, and got royally f'd by their insurance carrier. I mean, don't the receipts usually end up being gone if a whole house loss occurs?

Also - and it is a big also - most homeowners coverage offers by default pro rated replacement cost coverage. For instance - your TV is ten years old? Then you get a settlement equivalent to what a ten year old TV is worth. It is usually the case that one must ask for "Replacement Cost Coverage" to be added to a homeowners policy. It costs a little more, but the alternative does not work for me. Let's say the whole house is gone. Does anyone really want to accept 1/2 or 1/3 the price to replace the home's contents? I doubt it. Worth a call if you're not sure.

takeahike
You sure ask a lot of dumb questions
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join:2005-01-07
Catacombs

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I'd increase bodily injury, PIP and under/uninsured motorist as high as it goes (maybe 300/300) before property damage. Who drives a car worth over 100k? Very unlikely to have damage in that range but it's not as unusual to have personal injury over 100k. Will probably cost more than the PD increase for that reason. This also of course depends on whether you have substantial personal assets to protect.
tcope
Premium Member
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT

tcope

Premium Member

That is one way to look at it but BI limits should not be chosen to protect other people... they should be chosen to protect the person paying the premium. In 20 sum years I've never seen an attorney not settle for the insurance limits. Higher limits means you pay a higher premium so that the injury attorney and their clients can ask for a higher settlement. This is why people should also carry their own health insurance and possiblely UIMBI. Each person obtains insurance to protect _themselves_, not the other person.
fartness (banned)
Donald Trump 2016
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

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I have $0 deductible glass coverage. I had an at fault accident in September 2013. Now I have a cracked windshield on my other vehicle. Could this up my rate? It's probably a $1000 windshield since it has heated wipers. I of course need to get it replaced by 1/31 so I can pass state inspection (it's at the bottom of the windshield and if the wipers go over the crack then it fails, or I can just temporarily readjust the wipers to sit higher... yet this is not a moving violation that I can get ticketed for since my view is not obstructed).
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

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We have decent coverage. Could afford to hit a telsa but the real exotic cars nope. Doubt most people could.