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michaelwatts
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michaelwatts

Anon

[Connectivity] Netflix Bombshell Reply to Comcast

»apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/docume ··· 01011066

This will probably get swept under the rug being filed on Christmas Eve. Some interesting facts here. So much for Netflix "choosing" how they can reach Comcast.

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

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SpaethCo

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The truth lies somewhere in between both the Comcast and Netflix filings. There aren't nearly as many options as Comcast is asserting for a company like Netflix to deliver content to subscribers, and the terms of direct interconnection aren't nearly as egregious as Netflix makes them out to be.

Microsoft and Apple pay for direct connections to Comcast to support their software update deployment bandwidth in addition to their cloud services. Same for other large bandwidth sources like Google and Amazon. To me, it immediately stands out that Netflix is the only company complaining loudly about this arrangement.

In a sense, Netflix is right -- their options are limited. Same as how your options would narrow down if you wanted to physically ship something across the country. You want to send a box? You can use an establishment in your neighborhood like the postal service, UPS, Fedex, courier services, etc. You want to send a cargo container? You'll have to do a little more work and probably have to contract with a business in a large(r) nearby city, but you can work with several freight companies to get that done. You want to move a space shuttle? Well, now that's going to drastically reduce your options and increase your costs. Once you become the single largest source of peak bandwidth demand on the Internet, life is going to be more complicated.

Netflix is facing rising content costs, rising infrastructure costs, and a subscriber base that has already demonstrated that they are hyper sensitive to price. Compensating increasing content costs by lowering infrastructure costs is the only way they're going to be able to sustain that business model. What's one way to lower some of those costs? Engage in a little poker game with one of your vendors that happens to require regulatory approval for one of their business pursuits.

Disclaimer: I'm actually against the merger. Allowing a company the side of Comcast to acquire a content producer the size of NBC and gain financial control over both creation and distribution of content was a huge mistake. Giving that company an even bigger monopoly over distribution is unforgivable.

Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

Robyn79 to michaelwatts

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to michaelwatts
Interesting - but nothing I haven't read before in terms of the parties' positions.

I guess everyone's POV about these issues is based in part in terms of self-interest and in part in terms of what seems rational. Here is my POV based on both.

Comcast and other providers put in the cable and other infrastructure that allows any of this to run. The amount of cable - which where I live is fiber - was plenty to serve everyone before streaming services like Netflix attracted enough users to choke it from time to time (IIRC - about 30% or more of CC's current bandwidth is used by Netflix).

I'm not a big fan of Netflix offerings (I think it's somewhat better than what Comcast offers but not as good as what I get from Amazon Prime). But - the larger issue is why should users who only use a little bandwidth subsidize those who use a ton? It would be like my water or power companies charging a flat rate and anyone could use as much water or power as they wanted.

As a practical matter - my water and power companies have minimums. For the most frugal users. And then you pay more - and there's tiered pricing when it comes to water (the more you use - the more you pay per unit).

I watch some movies and TV shows on Amazon every month. Like maybe 10-15 hours worth this month. And my total usage is 106gb MTD. Why should I pay anything/anything more to support a Netflix addicted family - especially since Netflix isn't going to spend 10 cents to improve my cable connections?

IOW - you want Netflix and use more than X gb/per month using it (I think the current limit CC is fiddling with is 250gb per month) - I think Comcast should be entitled to charge you.

Note that I have no opinion about the merger. I've never been in Time Warner territory. Maybe Time Warner is great - maybe it sucks - I don't know. But it most certainly has the same issues with Netflix that Comcast has. Robyn
AVonGauss
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join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

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to michaelwatts
Its not a matter of anything getting swept under the rug, its just the same mojo they've been trotting for the last year or so - and its gotten rather old. Unless NetFlix is willing to release the terms of the transit agreements they signed that are supposedly so awful, I don't really want to hear anything more from them about it. If I had to guess, I would imagine they received a fairly good deal considering the amount of data they transit today and are anticipated to transit in the very near future.

As for the merger, what I've always said and I'll continue to say is I personally am much more interested in what Time Warner customers think than any external third party - professional or amateur. To view it as a reduction of competition is absurd as Comcast and TWC compete in very few markets. While content providers/distributors could argue this gives Comcast greater leverage, I'm reluctant to anticipate this harming consumers as content distributors have typically operated unfettered in the past to the detriment of consumers.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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said by Robyn79:

As a practical matter - my water and power companies have minimums. For the most frugal users. And then you pay more - and there's tiered pricing when it comes to water (the more you use - the more you pay per unit).

But Comcast is selling speed, not volume. Let them charge by the bit, and move it at top speed, if that is what they want to do.
NormanS

NormanS

MVM

The insanity is a stupid car analogy. The proper analogy is to utilities; water, gas, electric. Pay $x for a base amount of download; say, $59 for 30 GB per month. Then per "per bit" for more. Deliver it at max speed. Period.

Of course, if you are going to bill it as a utility, it should be regulated as a utility. As it is now, ISPs are trying to "have their cake, and eat it, too",
NormanS

NormanS

MVM

The figure is no more insane than 4G LTE. But feel free to calculate a more reasonable base fee; my point would still be properly illustrated.
Robyn79
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join:2014-12-09

Robyn79 to NormanS

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to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by Robyn79:

As a practical matter - my water and power companies have minimums. For the most frugal users. And then you pay more - and there's tiered pricing when it comes to water (the more you use - the more you pay per unit).

But Comcast is selling speed, not volume. Let them charge by the bit, and move it at top speed, if that is what they want to do.

I - with others here - think they're selling both. I get what I think is pretty good speed from Comcast. And the speed allows me to get X volume of stuff in Y amount of time. But my best speeds aren't very useful if the network slows to a crawl during periods of high use and it takes me 50Y amount of time to get the same X volume of stuff (if I can get it at all).

As for regulating Comcast like a utility - I'm not sure what the point would be. Won't necessarily make it cheaper. I pay on average about $350/month for electric and $140/month for water (both regulated). I don't live in a dump - but I don't live in the Taj Mahal either.

Now I know my power company wants me to keep my house at 80 in the summer and 65 in the winter - and my water company wants me to replace my grass and native trees with pebbles and native weeds - but I don't want to do those things.

Also - if Comcast were regulated like my utilities - I might be paying more to use it during peak hours instead of the middle of the night (which is how my power company works) - and I'd be restricted in terms of using it on various days for various purposes (which is how my water company works when it comes to irrigation).

AT&T - which has been treated partially as a utility in terms of providing phone service (especially landlines in rural areas - which AT&T customers have to subsidize) - has been dealing with regulators for decades. And its current proposals to regulators to get rid of its rural landlines don't seem particularly attractive to me:

»stopthecap.com/2014/05/2 ··· nternet/

IOW - be careful what you wish for.

Finally - I have no objections to data usage charges. Theoretically. I'd have to see what's proposed - and what that means operationally (I don't track my data usage carefully or track anyone else's at all). Robyn

Titus
Mr Gradenko
join:2004-06-26

Titus to NormanS

Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

Of course, if you are going to bill it as a utility, it should be regulated as a utility.

It usually does come down to greed management. So long as the players can pay off (lobby) the govt. successfully they get to keep playing kings. Comcast's merger theoretically positions that industry one step closer to regulation. Theoretically.
Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

Robyn79

Premium Member

said by Titus:

said by NormanS:

Of course, if you are going to bill it as a utility, it should be regulated as a utility.

It usually does come down to greed management. So long as the players can pay off (lobby) the govt. successfully they get to keep playing kings. Comcast's merger theoretically positions that industry one step closer to regulation. Theoretically.

Comcast apparently does more than lobby:

»www.weeklystandard.com/b ··· 003.html

I doubt Comcast is unique in terms of doing things like this. Still - it shows that some animals will always be "more equal than others". Robyn

NormanS
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NormanS to Robyn79

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to Robyn79
said by Robyn79:

I don't live in a dump - but I don't live in the Taj Mahal either.

I don't live in any dump, either. But there is no way I could afford both of:

• Comcast Starter.
• Chevrolet Cruze.

Maybe I shouldn't be squandering my meager income on the Internet.
Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

Robyn79

Premium Member

said by NormanS:

said by Robyn79:

I don't live in a dump - but I don't live in the Taj Mahal either.

I don't live in any dump, either. But there is no way I could afford both of:

• Comcast Starter.
• Chevrolet Cruze.

Maybe I shouldn't be squandering my meager income on the Internet.

Budgeting for devices/connectivity is certainly challenging - especially for younger people just starting out who want to have the latest and greatest Champagne technology on beer budgets. Especially if they - like you - live in a super high priced spread area like San Jose CA (median home price there is about $750k - which is almost twice the median home price where I live - and almost 3 times the national median home price).

Perhaps it's time for people - especially younger people - to make/maintain friends the old fashioned way - face-to-face - over a beer and pizza? Or to spend some leisure time running 3 miles instead of watching cat videos? I honestly can't tell you how annoying it is when I take a younger person out for a meal - or have one over for dinner - and then they spend the whole time with their face glued to a cell phone.

I know Comcast isn't cheap. But neither are most other providers that are similar to Comcast. And "smart" cell phone service - wow. I tend to look at some aspects of these things (from my personal POV) more as indulgences than necessities (although what may be an indulgence for me - like expensive cell phone service - which I don't have - may be a necessity for someone else - like my brother the doctor).

Anyway - most of this stuff (like many things we buy) isn't going to get cheaper - no matter what company we're talking about - or what happens with the proposed Comcast merger. So we all have to sit down - look at our incomes - look at what we can spend money on - decide which of those spending categories are most important to us - and figure out how to get the most bang for every buck we're spending in those categories.

BTW - the best piece of unsolicited financial advice I - as an older person - can give to a younger person (although I have no idea how old you are) is to do whatever he/she possibly can to improve career prospects (and income). If someone is spending a lot on the internet and it isn't contributing to improved career prospects - it isn't money well spent IMO.

Sorry for this long rambling somewhat OT reply. But - on this last day of the year - as always - I tend to sit back and reflect about the past - and think about what might be coming up in the future. Best wishes to you and everyone else here for a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year, Robyn

mranon
@208.95.148.x

mranon to Robyn79

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to Robyn79
said by Robyn79:

I watch some movies and TV shows on Amazon every month. Like maybe 10-15 hours worth this month. And my total usage is 106gb MTD. Why should I pay anything/anything more to support a Netflix addicted family - especially since Netflix isn't going to spend 10 cents to improve my cable connections?

IOW - you want Netflix and use more than X gb/per month using it (I think the current limit CC is fiddling with is 250gb per month) - I think Comcast should be entitled to charge you.

I love how it is a one way street with data usage talk. If i use little to none of my data I don't get a thank you credit from Comcast. You are overlooking the fact that people pay massive bills every month for triple pay packages w/ extreme 150 such as I have. If you are charging me overages and are implementing some silly cap (250gb is a joke for a family of 4 in an age where every device including lamps are connected to the internet) you better have some sort of credit system if i stay under your silly cap. Don't offer a product and then expect your customers not to use it while paying high subscription fees.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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NormanS to Robyn79

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to Robyn79
I am not young. I don't have, won't have a smart phone. I don't have, never had, and never will have pay TV service. I would that I could run around the block; but chronic axonal demyelination makes that difficult. It is pretty much why I don't have a car.

I do have a basic cell phone. Handy in case I break down (mechanically; I get around in a wheelchair). I should probably do society a favor and check out?
Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

Robyn79

Premium Member

said by NormanS:

I am not young. I don't have, won't have a smart phone. I don't have, never had, and never will have pay TV service. I would that I could run around the block; but chronic axonal demyelination makes that difficult. It is pretty much why I don't have a car.

I do have a basic cell phone. Handy in case I break down (mechanically; I get around in a wheelchair). I should probably do society a favor and check out?

Check out? Please - don't even consider it. I peg you to be somewhat younger than we are (your "phrase" is from Electric Light Orchestra - yes?). My husband (who isn't young either - he'll be 70 next year) has another demyelinating disease - MS. And - although he's not in a wheelchair at this point - he can't run around the block either (he used to run 3 miles a day and ran a couple of marathons). He's not anywhere close to ready to check out. In part because he has/has developed a lot of other interests. Everything from reading a ton to learning languages. Computers and related devices (like Kindles) are great for these things.

It's ideal to have a sound mind in a sound body (mens sana in corpore sano). But - if I had to choose between one or the other - I'd take the former. My father is 96 - and his "chassis" is really falling apart. But being on line helps to keep his mind relatively nimble.

My husband isn't fond of TV. If it were up to him - he wouldn't have a TV. I'm not like him. I do watch TV (or keep it on as background noise). Mostly CNBC when the markets are open - and lots of food shows when it isn't. So we pay for TV. My father is a TV nut. He watches Fox all day and every decent (and crummy) movie Netflix has to offer at night. Can't say I can relate to that - but if it makes him happy.... His favorite recent toy (that I turned him onto) is his Roku box.

We're both with you when it comes to smart phones. We have 2 dumb cell phones that cost us a total of $140/year (we don't use them a whole lot).

My wish for you for the New Year is that you get a new friend or two or three. Female or male or both. Preferably ones who like to cook (cooking is great - I never really learned how to cook until I retired). Eat out too. Even if it's only having pizza and beer at a local place. So you don't wind up thinking about checking out. We don't spend that much time on earth - and have lots of centuries to spend being dead. So be well and take care NormanS. Robyn
Robyn79

Robyn79 to mranon

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to mranon
said by mranon :

said by Robyn79:

I watch some movies and TV shows on Amazon every month. Like maybe 10-15 hours worth this month. And my total usage is 106gb MTD. Why should I pay anything/anything more to support a Netflix addicted family - especially since Netflix isn't going to spend 10 cents to improve my cable connections?

IOW - you want Netflix and use more than X gb/per month using it (I think the current limit CC is fiddling with is 250gb per month) - I think Comcast should be entitled to charge you.

I love how it is a one way street with data usage talk. If i use little to none of my data I don't get a thank you credit from Comcast. You are overlooking the fact that people pay massive bills every month for triple pay packages w/ extreme 150 such as I have. If you are charging me overages and are implementing some silly cap (250gb is a joke for a family of 4 in an age where every device including lamps are connected to the internet) you better have some sort of credit system if i stay under your silly cap. Don't offer a product and then expect your customers not to use it while paying high subscription fees.

There are several possible billing models that make sense to me. But the single price "all you can eat buffet" when it comes to bandwidth isn't one of them. The only thing I buy that remotely resembles this is my high-priced spread Medigap policy. Many experts say it encourages wasteful use of medical resources. I'm not sure I agree with that. Perhaps because I'm not fond of going to the doctor even if I don't have to pay anything out of pocket. But leaving a bandwidth hog application on when you're not using it isn't the same as going to the doctor.

Our household has a triple play package (with 105 HSI - not 150). At a little over $200/month - I don't consider the bill "massive" - although it's not negligible either. It's certainly not in our top 10 average monthly expenses - or even our top 15. Note that my husband and I are both retired lawyers with our retirement finances in order - no kids or parents to worry about (my 96 year old father - our last surviving parent - is well off and has his own triple play package - which also costs him over $200 month overall). There's no question we're upper middle class.

But - as older people who have gone through both good times and bad (and - in my father's case - horrible times - the Great Depression) - this is pretty much a luxury we're grateful to be able to indulge in during our senior years. It's not a necessity or something we take for granted.

And just think about it. What are your kids (or other kids) going to do when they go out on their own - and they can't afford that triple play with extreme 150 package? Are you going to give them money to pay for it?

Let me ask you a question. What do your kids (or anyone else's kids) use 150 connectivity for? Are you (or anyone else) running your lights on the internet? What are people spending their bandwidth on? My father does watch a lot of movies on Netflix. Then again - at 96 - he has very limited mobility - and TV is his primary form of entertainment. And if he has to spend $300-400/month to watch his TV - he'll spend it.

Being an upper middle class person living in a very upper middle neighborhood - I can tell you that many kids here who are indulged so much when they're young wind up being crippled in the end. Like the 35 year old "kid" next door who moved back with his folks when he couldn't afford his toys in addition to paying for an apartment and groceries and the like. Or the college age kid on the other side of us who thought so little of his $500 cell phone that when he lost it in our yard when he was about 10 - that no one even bothered to look for it - because it was on Mom's company plan (it was insured for theft - and they reported it as a theft - I discovered that when I found the phone and turned it in). That kid can't even figure out now how to apply for college - much less go to one and live on his own if he's accepted.

Food for thought at the start of the New Year. Robyn

NormanS
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said by Robyn79:

My wish for you for the New Year is that you get a new friend or two or three. Female or male or both.

I actually have a number of interests; a large pile of anime waiting to be watched. A local anime club. My 18th year attending FanimeCon; 11th on staff (Memorial Day weekend). A local church.

Comcast has positioned themselves as a premium Internet provider; and the Comcast apologists tell those with lower-than-premium incomes to "use the library". Would they tell people to use candles? Outdoor plumbing? Wear sweaters indoors on cold nights? Honestly, in a society with a large percent of the people on Yugo budgets, why is there only Cadillac Internet available?
Kearnstd
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Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to michaelwatts

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Bandwidth caps are and always will be money grabs on wired services. I will always be limited by my grade of service for how much I can pull or shove down the pipe at any one time.

The funny thing about Netflix and ISPs in general is they will always be a love hate deal. Netflix is one of the reasons for the explosion in demand for higher speeds at home meaning more huge profits for the cable companies who are the only ISPs capable of providing that speed(outside of the minor handfull of neighborhoods with Google, community or FiOS FTTH products). In fact video in general is a love hate.

Internet services have got to be the most profitable part of any cable company, The expenses cannot compare the raking over the coals they get from content owners. Content owners are some of the most crooked crooks on the planet. Comcast for example already has rights to show x channel on the TV, If they wanted to let you stream it to a device even if its restricted to inside the home. They have to negotiate a new license fee because being allowed to carry the channel does not mean they are allowed to carry the channel.
Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

Robyn79 to NormanS

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to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by Robyn79:

My wish for you for the New Year is that you get a new friend or two or three. Female or male or both.

I actually have a number of interests; a large pile of anime waiting to be watched. A local anime club. My 18th year attending FanimeCon; 11th on staff (Memorial Day weekend). A local church.

Comcast has positioned themselves as a premium Internet provider; and the Comcast apologists tell those with lower-than-premium incomes to "use the library". Would they tell people to use candles? Outdoor plumbing? Wear sweaters indoors on cold nights? Honestly, in a society with a large percent of the people on Yugo budgets, why is there only Cadillac Internet available?

Funny you should bring that up. Comcast sure isn't telling people to use the library. It has this program for low income people:

»www.internetessentials.c ··· it-works

I honestly don't know much about it. The only reason I know about it at all is I saw an ad for it on TV yesterday. This particular program (and I don't know if there are others) has its deficiencies (it only seems to cover households with children). But it's something.

Also - WRT your remark about libraries - many/most are becoming hotbeds of digital access/use. So telling people to use libraries isn't as old-fashioned as it sounds.

I don't know about candles or outdoor plumbing - but there are many people who recommend setting your thermostat up to 80 in the summer and who knows how low in the winter to "save energy/save money on their electric bills". Going around in your underwear (?) or wearing sweaters/long johns. Some people are ok with that. A lot of people - including seniors like me - aren't. Although although I do keep my house "within a range" (76 in the summer and 72 in the winter) - it costs a lot to do so. I guess not all people can afford it (although there are "energy assistance programs" for low income seniors).

In terms of Comcast - it does - in my area - offer very basic TV and internet for about $50/month. Limited stations and pretty low speeds. It's the kind of package my home handyman (who isn't poor but is also far from wealthy) and his family have - the kind that enabled his kids to get on line to assist with their studies/college prep work. It's the kind of service my housekeeper and her family have as well. If you asked these people whether they'd rather have cheaper/better Comcast service or cellphone service - I suspect they'd pick the latter (because while watching streaming movies isn't essential - having great cell service is imperative in terms of their businesses and they're spending more money on cell plans than Comcast plans).

People like this aren't concerned with the the dispute between Comcast and Netflix - or streaming movies without buffering. They just want basic connectivity at a price they can afford. Robyn

P.S. I don't consider myself an apologist for Comcast. And I think I am somewhat sensitive to the plight of working lower-middle income people - simply because I have several who have worked for me for a very long time. These are the people who often "fall through the cracks" in terms of lots of things. Because they have too much money to qualify for assistance programs and not enough to buy various goods and services - especially very essential things like health care - without "breaking the budget".

P.P.S. If you're an anime fan - consider planning a trip to Japan. Its reputation as a hyper-expensive place to visit is totally out of date now as its decade+ recession/deflation continues and the yen hits multi-year lows.
Robyn79

Robyn79

Premium Member

said by v6movement :

said by Robyn79:

There are several possible billing models that make sense to me. But the single price "all you can eat buffet" when it comes to bandwidth isn't one of them.

There is no justification for not having such a model especially when 98% of users are not even coming close to using a lot of traffic relative to their connection speed. The majority of users barely use much of anything at all. You can't use all you can eat bandwidth. Your connection is set at a particular speed and that's it. It doesn't magically jump up to 1Gbps. When and if caps are implemented they are pretty much always insulting to the user with few exceptions. I am definitely not Ok being ripped off by companies for services that cost them very little to deliver.
said by Robyn79:

Our household has a triple play package (with 105 HSI - not 150). At a little over $200/month - I don't consider the bill "massive"

Holy crap that is a lot, especially with bundling discounts. No way I'd ever spend that much on said services. Way too much.

Would you buy a car if it could only drive 20 miles and then had to pay extra to drive additional mileage? Say $100 for every 10 miles. I can guarantee that if that were to happen you would have a hell of a lot of people complaining.

The big cost of delivery issue is getting more "fiber" in the ground (and similar) to accommodate more users/users who use more bandwidth. Pretty much no one wants to pay for it.

Even Google - with its very deep pockets - is having problems rolling out its "network" (which - at this point - after all the hoopla - only started delivering service in 3 smaller markets at the end of last year). Seems like a lot of users don't only want high speed internet connections - they want TV with lots of content too. And Google has found it hard to package "content" on the TV side.

As for Netflix contributing 1 red cent to infrastructure - I wouldn't hold my breath.

In terms of a pricing model - current statistics show - like you mention - that only a very small % of users use a ton of bandwidth. Just like - in Florida - only a very small % of users consume insanely ridiculous amounts of water - think Tiger Woods (who used 1.3 million gallons of water in a month when average residential use was about 5300 gallons):

»www.tcpalm.com/business/ ··· of-water

So what would be wrong with charging X for Y use (the maximum amount that 98% of all people use) - and surcharging the remaining 2%? It's not like most of the people using all this bandwidth are poor or anywhere close to poor (if they were poor - they couldn't afford all the expensive gadgets and streaming services).

It's pretty easy to get a Comcast bill for over $200. We're on a promo rate for an HD premier package now. Gives us 105 service - more channels than I need/want and our phone. Costs $159/month. It's the best deal we could get last year when we changed from another promo package (would have gone for a package with fewer stations - but it wouldn't have saved us any money). Add in 5 additional set top boxes (3 regular HD and 2 DTA HD) plus taxes and other fees - and - voila - you're over $200.

Note that my husband and I are retired - and probably spend more time around the house than people who are working. If we were still working - our set-up would be smaller (in fact - the retirement house we built is larger than the condo we lived in when we were both working).

Also - we're actually saving money since we switched to Comcast Voice a year+ ago (AT&T was charging about $75/month just for a single stupid land line).

As for driving - I don't think it's a good analogy. Because the more you drive - the more you pay. Whether you're talking about gas - mileage based maintenance - mileage based depreciation - or even the cost of insurance (you pay X if you drive more than 7500 miles a year - and less than X if you drive less). OTOH - there is a certain base cost of owning a car - even if you keep it in the garage all the time. We saved a lot becoming a 1 car family about 5 years ago when we realized that our second car - which we only drove about 3k miles a year - was a very expensive piece of "garage furniture". Robyn

mike34
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Central City, PA
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mike34 to Robyn79

Premium Member

to Robyn79
said by Robyn79:

Funny you should bring that up. Comcast sure isn't telling people to use the library. It has this program for low income people:

»www.internetessentials.c ··· it-works

I honestly don't know much about it. The only reason I know about it at all is I saw an ad for it on TV yesterday. This particular program (and I don't know if there are others) has its deficiencies (it only seems to cover households with children). But it's something.

I do know plenty about this program and I'm quite sure Norman does too. It's been available for a few years and I've assisted a couple folks with the self install kits.

It's the only offering Comcast has made for low income individuals and has quite restrictive eligibility. Kind of a political chest thumping vehicle for Comcast.

Sorry for the off topic post but this thread is shot and seriously hijacked anyway so one more can't hurt.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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NormanS to Robyn79

MVM

to Robyn79
said by Robyn79:

Funny you should bring that up. Comcast sure isn't telling people to use the library.

A Comcast apologist is not, necessarily an official Comcast spokesperson.

It has this program for low income people:

»www.internetessentials.c ··· it-works

I honestly don't know much about it. The only reason I know about it at all is I saw an ad for it on TV yesterday. This particular program (and I don't know if there are others) has its deficiencies (it only seems to cover households with children). But it's something.

More specifically, households with children covered by some government school lunch program; and some other restrictions. I expect most of my elderly neighbors wouldn't qualify; I certainly don't.

Also - WRT your remark about libraries - many/most are becoming hotbeds of digital access/use. So telling people to use libraries isn't as old-fashioned as it sounds.

Fine when you live near one, and it is equipped, and open.

In terms of Comcast - it does - in my area - offer very basic TV and internet for about $50/month. Limited stations and pretty low speeds.

But then you have to do the, "CSR Dance" once a year, or your promotion expires, and your price increases.

FWIW, my Internet is billed at $19.98 per month. My total bill, with bundled POTS, is under $55 a month. And I don't have to do an annual "CSR Dance" to keep it there.
Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

4 edits

Robyn79

Premium Member

said by NormanS:

said by Robyn79:

Funny you should bring that up. Comcast sure isn't telling people to use the library.

A Comcast apologist is not, necessarily an official Comcast spokesperson.

It has this program for low income people:

»www.internetessentials.c ··· it-works

I honestly don't know much about it. The only reason I know about it at all is I saw an ad for it on TV yesterday. This particular program (and I don't know if there are others) has its deficiencies (it only seems to cover households with children). But it's something.

More specifically, households with children covered by some government school lunch program; and some other restrictions. I expect most of my elderly neighbors wouldn't qualify; I certainly don't.

Also - WRT your remark about libraries - many/most are becoming hotbeds of digital access/use. So telling people to use libraries isn't as old-fashioned as it sounds.

Fine when you live near one, and it is equipped, and open.

In terms of Comcast - it does - in my area - offer very basic TV and internet for about $50/month. Limited stations and pretty low speeds.

But then you have to do the, "CSR Dance" once a year, or your promotion expires, and your price increases.

FWIW, my Internet is billed at $19.98 per month. My total bill, with bundled POTS, is under $55 a month. And I don't have to do an annual "CSR Dance" to keep it there.

I pretty much agree with you about the Comcast Essentials Program. Under its eligibility guidelines - you have to have kids in school. Moreover - a family of 4 can earn as much $44k a year or so and still be eligible. Note that there are 30 million children in the US in the school lunch program.

It does not apply to seniors who - in many cases - have much lower incomes. Seniors who often can't - like children - get a part time job to help them pay for things. Seniors who often - even if they have a local library or community center or similar where they could get internet access - can't drive or otherwise get to these places - like children can (children have facilities in their schools as well).

I guess you could say it's Comcast's money. But Comcast gets its money from us - its customers.

I also agree WRT libraries in some areas. I live in a fairly small well to do Florida county (St. Johns County) that is a county south of a larger not so well to county (Duval County/Jacksonville). And what is going on with the library system in Jacksonville is a shame/crime.

I really don't know if the customers who are on the Comcast plan I described have to do a CSR dance every year. My home handyman is coming over on Monday - and I'll ask him

BTW - if you're getting a plain old telephone from AT&T or the like for $30/month - that's amazing. I was paying close to $70/month for my one AT&T land line when I terminated the service (although I'm sure rates for this service vary widely depending on where you live).

Note to mike - I don't think your post was off topic. Because - even if a discussion starts only with an aspect of the relationship between Comcast and Netflix - it's hard to limit the discussion to that. Because you immediately get into issues of net neutrality - and sooner or later get into issues of mergers - competition - actual and future potential regulation - etc.

What you commented on - subsidies for low income people when it comes to internet service - is part of this stew as well. Although - to be honest about it - I don't put either internet or TV services in the same "essentials" bucket as things like electricity or water or health care. And - even when it comes to electricity in Florida (our houses are usually 100% electric) - there's only a disorganized often inadequate patchwork of programs to deal with people who can't pay their bills/are at risk of having their service disconnected/have had their service disconnected:

»liheapdev2013.ncat.org/p ··· rida.htm

I have my thoughts about this - but I'll keep them to myself because they are way off topic. Needless to say - people who've had their power turned off because they didn't pay their bills sure aren't worrying about getting Netflix on their Comcast service.

Finally - I don't think of myself as a Comcast apologist. I am pretty happy - not ecstatic - with a service for which I pay a bunch of money. The TV service (by far the largest part of my bill) has been nearly flawless for 2 decades. And the internet service is much better than the DSL I left behind (and the old Comcast service a decade+ ago that I left for DSL).

The biggest issue with my service today is wifi coverage at relatively high speeds in a somewhat large house using devices I had never even heard of 2 years ago (like Roku boxes) or which were only released months ago (my new Amazon fire TV stick). Netflix streaming - which I don't use - and which accounts for something like 30% of Comcast traffic today - IIRC - only became a "standalone" service in 2011. Comcast is somewhat behind in dealing with the wifi requirements of this new technology. But I don't think Comcast or anyone else could have predicted how these things would take off. And it's not like Comcast customers in general change their hardware every year or two. Or that Comcast customers are willing to spend 10 cents to improve the basic infrastructure. Infrastructure improvement is usually something companies like Comcast have to issue bonds to finance (and customers do eventually wind up paying for those bonds).

Finally - these problems are - IMO - just about the highest of first world problems. I am mighty glad that one of the biggest problems on my horizon now is getting the wifi in the internet TV in my MBR to work ok. Means my life is really pretty good . Robyn

P.S. And tomorrow the holidays are over and we're back to normal. And someone (not from Comcast) is coming out and we're going to tackle that wifi problem. Hope we can make it better - but my life won't be ruined if we can't.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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join:2001-02-14
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NormanS

MVM

said by Robyn79:

BTW - if you're getting a plain old telephone from AT&T or the like for $30/month - that's amazing. I was paying close to $70/month for my one AT&T land line when I terminated the service (although I'm sure rates for this service vary widely depending on where you live).

I kicked AT&T to the curb 3 1/2 years ago; at that time, local POTS was close to $30, and LD was another $30, plus per minute charges on LD calls; Internet was $33 for 3008/512 tier. New company has the same price for local+LD; unlimited calling within the U.S., and limited "borderless" calling.

I see my provider has raised their price by $5 per month. First hike I have seen in the 3 1/2 years I have been with them. My December bill reflects the old price, so I don't know how this will be divided. Previously: $19.98 for Internet (no tiers), $19.97+tax_and_fee for POTS.
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Agent 86
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Agent 86 to michaelwatts

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to michaelwatts

Re: [Connectivity] Netflix Bombshell Reply to Comcast

Size is power. How much does netflix pay small ISPs? Nothing. How much will netflix pay Comcast if the merger goes through? More than they pay Comcast and TWC separately.
AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AVonGauss

Premium Member

said by Agent 86 :

How much will netflix pay Comcast if the merger goes through? More than they pay Comcast and TWC separately.

... and exactly what sources or facts are you basing this upon?
Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

Robyn79 to NormanS

Premium Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by Robyn79:

BTW - if you're getting a plain old telephone from AT&T or the like for $30/month - that's amazing. I was paying close to $70/month for my one AT&T land line when I terminated the service (although I'm sure rates for this service vary widely depending on where you live).

I kicked AT&T to the curb 3 1/2 years ago; at that time, local POTS was close to $30, and LD was another $30, plus per minute charges on LD calls; Internet was $33 for 3008/512 tier. New company has the same price for local+LD; unlimited calling within the U.S., and limited "borderless" calling.

I see my provider has raised their price by $5 per month. First hike I have seen in the 3 1/2 years I have been with them. My December bill reflects the old price, so I don't know how this will be divided. Previously: $19.98 for Internet (no tiers), $19.97+tax_and_fee for POTS.

Yup - that's pretty close to what we were paying for our one AT&T land line. Still - old habits die hard. And I always thought a land line was our best protection during/after hurricane events. And then I read post-Sandy reports that said - maybe yes - maybe no. And - when in doubt we always evacuate for hurricanes anyway. So CC voice (going from double to triple play) turned out to be a no-brainer for us.

OTOH - I think the best combination of internet/TV/voice services is very much a matter of personal preferences and budgets. What I have chosen suits me and my husband and I don't think I try to push our choices on anyone else. Some people are happy to "cut the cord" and live with Netflix. Me - I can't live without CNBC. You - well that's your call . Robyn
clocks11
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clocks11

Member

said by Robyn79:

Me - I can't live without CNBC.

Actually CNBC has a Roku channel.
»www.rokuguide.com/channels/cnbc
Robyn79
Premium Member
join:2014-12-09

Robyn79

Premium Member

said by clocks11:

said by Robyn79:

Me - I can't live without CNBC.

Actually CNBC has a Roku channel.
»www.rokuguide.com/channels/cnbc

I know - I checked it out when I got my first Roku. It's all pre-recorded stuff - not real time market stuff (much like you can get on CNBC.com for free). I don't want to watch Shark Tank - I want to hear Rick Santelli live from the bond pits in Chicago at 8:30 when a jobs report is released - or at 2:15 when the Fed finishes a meeting. The same is true of other financial stations like Bloomberg. TANSTAAFL. Although I consider what I pay Comcast for stations like CNBC a bargain compared to what other financial data feeds cost. Robyn