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linus5171
join:2004-02-10

linus5171

Member

[Electrical] Transfer Switch for new generator

Yes, another generator question. I recently purchased a 7000W portable propane generator but I haven't hooked it up yet other than using extension cords. I want to install a manual transfer switch preferably on the outside of my house just outside my panel. I have talked to several electricians without getting quotes and they all want to install the transfer switch on the inside next to the panel and run a line for the plugin from the outside. Normally I would have no problem with that but we just remodeled the bathroom that the panel is in and my wife is dead set against on having a surface mount switch, (even the electrical panel is behind a painting). How hard would it be to rig up an outdoor transfer switch and run the wire to the panel. The panel is only 5 feet from the outside. Also one electrician said he could run the cord in through the meter alongside the big wires coming into the panel which would be a lot easier than fishing the cord through the walls. Is that even allowed? No code enforcement where I live but the Electric COOP would require inspection before it would approve hookup.
netwolf
join:2007-05-04
Mckinney, TX

3 recommendations

netwolf

Member

[Electrical] Re: Transfer Switch for new generator

What is your main panel doing in the bathroom?

Killa200
Premium Member
join:2005-12-02
TN

Killa200 to linus5171

Premium Member

to linus5171
You might want to see if your co-op is ok with an install like this: »www.generlink.com/about_ ··· link.cfm

Your situation sounds a lot like an ideal use for this device, being your panel is in a hard to work with area, and your only looking for a manual solution under the 7200 watts the device supports.

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

1 recommendation

cowboyro to linus5171

Premium Member

to linus5171
Use an interlock, no new panel needed, you can power any circuit you want not a group of select few...
linus5171
join:2004-02-10

linus5171

Member

The panel was in the bathroom when we bought the house in 1985. The coop will only allow a double throw dead transfer switch so an interlock can't be used. Running the wire through the meter box to the panel would be a lot easier but I don't know if the power company would allow that.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

1 recommendation

nunya to linus5171

MVM

to linus5171
Is the panel on an exterior wall? As mentioned, it should not be in the bathroom. Period. Even in 1985 that was a no-no.
I seriously doubt the power company will stand for generator wiring being piped through the meter pan.

It sounds like you've got yourself a big old 'shit sandwich' of a situation. Throwing a generator into it is just adding another layer of poop.
I'd ask them about the Generlink.
linus5171
join:2004-02-10

linus5171

Member

The panel isn't on the outside wall but on the side wall just a few feet in from the outside wall. We bought the house in 1985, the house was built in the early 70's in an area with no codes so they could do anything they wanted. The coop is aware of the location of the panel and had no problems with it when they checked it after the tornado several years ago.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

I think you mean no code enforcement. The codes were there, they just didn't follow them and there was no one around to make them do it right.
The power company has zero jurisdiction over your inside wiring. None. So, them being aware of it has no bearing.

It's too bad it isn't located on an exterior wall. It could just be "turned around" and replaced with an outdoor panel.

Generlink or interlock. The interlock is no business of the power company as long as you don't backfeed. The whole point of an interlock is to prevent backfeeding, so there you go.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6 to linus5171

Premium Member

to linus5171
Post a pic of the outside where the meter is located. Make it a reasonably wide shot so we can see the whole side of the wall where it is located.
linus5171
join:2004-02-10

linus5171

Member

I'm just going by what the coop sent me in writing, if it doesn't meet their inspection they pull the meter until you do it their way. Even if I could use an interlock it would mean several breakers being relocated. I looked at an interlock made for my panel and it would only work with the breakers in the top position, my only open breakers are toward the bottom of the panel. The only reason I'm going for a wired system is to provide power for my well pump. I can do without a lot but my wife refuses to live without toilets that flush.

bewhole
I Am Here
Premium Member
join:2000-08-08
Alfred, ME

bewhole to linus5171

Premium Member

to linus5171
What is on the other side of the wall with the panel??
linus5171
join:2004-02-10

linus5171

Member

Bedroom

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya to linus5171

MVM

to linus5171
Moving a few breakers around for a proper interlock is childsplay. They should have turned the panel toward the bedroom.
If you put a disconnect in front of the panel, then the panel has to be converted to 4 wire.
If it were my house, I'd move the painting into the bedroom . I'd turn that panel around and install a generator ready load center (kill two birds with one stone).
linus5171
join:2004-02-10

linus5171

Member

Interesting idea for another time but for now I'm just going to concentrate on the generator with a reasonable price. The Generlink sounds like a good idea if they will let me but just the hardware costs almost $700 then add on the install and you are looking at a thousand or more. One good thing is the coop here is very reliable, the last major outage was the big ice storm of 2009 when we were out for three days. Since then only a few outages of a few hours or less.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya

MVM

The install will take about 2-1/2 minutes on site. If they charge you $300 for that, they are crooks.

You could probably get the whole shebang straightened out and done right with a generator ready panel (manual transfer) and outdoor inlet for less than $1,300. If you patch the drywall yourself.

Killa200
Premium Member
join:2005-12-02
TN

Killa200 to linus5171

Premium Member

to linus5171
If your up front with the co-op about what your trying to do by having the generlink (install a safe means, for them and you, to run a generator) and they approve of it, they are probably going to want to install themselves anyways as it interfaces their meter. Catch a lineman on a slow day (I know, right?) and explain it will take a couple of minutes, and will let you run your generator safely for them. I'm sure if they haven't put one in one of the guys will be curious of the thing and make the trip for that alone. Some of us actually like the things we run into on our job,

If you talk to your co-op and they approve of the device, and you heed the advice above about a slow day I'd bet installation will be a big, fat $0. Consider that if you do the outside manual switch they would have to come out anyways, twice. Once to pull the meter, and once to set it after the work is done.

Generlink comes with a 20' cord to go from the base to your portable unit, so the cost really is the generlink alone as far as the install.
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

H_T_R_N (banned) to Killa200

Member

to Killa200
said by Killa200:

You might want to see if your co-op is ok with an install like this: »www.generlink.com/about_ ··· link.cfm

Your situation sounds a lot like an ideal use for this device, being your panel is in a hard to work with area, and your only looking for a manual solution under the 7200 watts the device supports.

I use one of these with a portable, works great.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

said by H_T_R_N:

I use one of these with a portable, works great.

1) Did your power company install it?
2) Was it available before you ordered it or did they make it available upon your request?
3) Did you purchase it or is it rented?
4) How much did it cost or rent for?
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

Hellrazor to linus5171

Member

to linus5171
Nunya,

Reminds me of this thread. Breaker panel in the tub stall area is the best...

»[OT] Service Panel. Anyone notice anything?
H_T_R_N (banned)
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA

H_T_R_N (banned) to Mr Matt

Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

said by H_T_R_N:

I use one of these with a portable, works great.

1) Did your power company install it?

Yep. It took them about 3 minutes.
said by Mr Matt:

2) Was it available before you ordered it or did they make it available upon your request?

It was listed on their website. A simple call and a check for $700 mad it happen.
said by Mr Matt:

3) Did you purchase it or is it rented?

Purchased with a 40 foot cable so that my genny could be put in a safe place out of the weather.
said by Mr Matt:

4) How much did it cost or rent for?

$700 but that included a 40 foot cable that added to the price. I can run everything off of it like the power is still on, except for my radiant floor heater, but that is because of the limit of the genny.

Termites
@174.64.136.x

Termites to netwolf

Anon

to netwolf
said by netwolf:

What is your main panel doing in the bathroom?

I think that's against Code. if it is he needs to worry about relocating that Panel before someone gets KILLED.....
linus5171
join:2004-02-10

2 recommendations

linus5171

Member

Once again, that panel has been where it is for 40 years with no problems and I'm not going to rewire my house at this time. Funny that I have had over a dozen licensed electricians do some work at my house that involved the panel and not a single one said anything about the location. If you suddenly made every house in my county come up to code, 50% would have to be torn down. Personally I don't see the danger, The panel is at the far end of the room with over 12 feet to the nearest water. I understand the need for codes and safety and I may relocate the panel the next time I do some electrical work, I am getting short of space in the old panel anyway.

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell to linus5171

Premium Member

to linus5171
Another advantage of the Generac interface is that if you move you can take it with you. An option is not available with most other transfer devices.

nunya
LXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
·Charter

nunya to linus5171

MVM

to linus5171
It's not about "changing" code. It's about wasn't-done-right-to-begin-with code. Based on:
said by linus5171:

I understand the need for codes and safety and I may relocate the panel the next time I do some electrical work, I am getting short of space in the old panel anyway.

You might want to revisit the option I mentioned right here:
»[Electrical] Re: Transfer Switch for new generator
linus5171
join:2004-02-10

linus5171

Member

Thanks for the info and when I replace the panel I will definitely move it to a different area. I will check with the coop and see if they will approve the Generlink option Which will take care of my immediate needs.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Hellrazor

Premium Member

to Hellrazor
said by Hellrazor:

Nunya,

Reminds me of this thread. Breaker panel in the tub stall area is the best...

»[OT] Service Panel. Anyone notice anything?

why yes because standing in a tub to flip a breaker could never go wrong...
RickWakeman
join:2013-06-23
Springfield, MA

RickWakeman to nunya

Member

to nunya
said by nunya:

Moving a few breakers around for a proper interlock is childsplay.

What if your panel is full? I have a full panel and a small sub panel but everything is packed.

whizkid3
MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

whizkid3 to linus5171

MVM

to linus5171
said by linus5171:

Once again, that panel has been where it is for 40 years with no problems and I'm not going to rewire my house at this time.

The first thing that popped into my head when I heard 'bathroom', is 'WTF is the panel doing in the bathroom?' The panel location in the bathroom is dangerous & not code-compliant (unlawful); and was not code compliant whether it was installed 40 years ago or last week. Yeah; we know it costs money to fix and remove the danger for your family; but apparently, you would rather defend it. For that matter, locating a panelboard in a bedroom with the typical flammable materials in a bedroom is also a horrible idea in my opinion; and while not a code violation as per the NEC; it is not code-compliant as per a number of local codes, depending on how they are interpreted. (In NYC, for example, it is unlawful to locate a panelboard in the vicinity of 'easily ignitable materials', which most inspectors consider carpet, bed linens, clothes, etc; to be.)
said by linus5171:

Funny that I have had over a dozen licensed electricians do some work at my house that involved the panel and not a single one said anything about the location.

I won't straight out call you a liar; but will say that at the least, there is some big exaggeration or serious forgetfulness going on with this sentence, for sure.

As for the primary concerns about what to do with the transfer swtich and where to locate it... Given that the only realistic choices at this point are in a bathroom or a bedroom; I would say neither. Fix the panel location first. Aside from that, the following are my two choices:
1. Locate it outdoors. Pay the premium $$$ for a NEMA-3R manual transfer switch. It will cost you.
2. Construct a shallow electrical closet in the bathroom or bedroom, perhaps 12" deep and just large enough to contain the transfer switch and panelboard. The clear area of the door has to be 30" minimum (or the width of the equipment) to provide code compliant working space. This will make your installation code compliant & safer.
Expand your moderator at work
lawsoncl
join:2008-10-28
Spirit Lake, ID

lawsoncl

Member

Re: [Electrical] Transfer Switch for new generator

said by linus5171:

there is no code enforcement here and electricians do not even have to be licensed in my area.

I'm curious, what state do you live in? Pretty much all the states have the NEC code required by statute and require licensing, even if they don't enforce them.